Preventing God's Will

[JonC]

Nope, you guys are being intellectually dishonest OR ignorant.

I asked a simple question. Can you prove that they never heard about Christ? Or were never Given the opportunity to believe?

Yes or no?

We are all given the opportunity to believe (this is what I believe Paul to be explaining). Through natural revelation we are given truths about God and even the Godhead, to the extent that we are guilty. Christ is not a phenomenon that stands in contrast of God's nature, but instead personifies that very nature. If we can know God then we can know God's salvation (we know that God is a God of mercy and redemption). The gospel is that this salvation has come, the Kingdom is at hand.

So my answer is that all have been given an opportunity to believe, although perhaps not the same opportunity. Those who have never heard the gospel of Jesus Christ have, not hearing the message, still rejected Christ on the grounds of God's general revelation.

 

[TCassidy]

we most certainly can respond in *Faith*, Yielding to the Proposal of God, to be His and His Alone.

So your salvation is based on YOUR faith and YOUR yielding? Okay, but that still doesn't answer the question, why didn't the guy sitting next to you have his own faith and yield to the "proposal?"

What is the difference between you and him?

 

[SovereignGrace]

Nope, you guys are being intellectually dishonest OR ignorant.

I asked a simple question. Can you prove that they never heard about Christ? Or were never Given the opportunity to believe?

Yes or no?

Again, I gave you quotes from NON-CALVINISTS who have stated that many have never heard the gospel.

How do ppl believe in the Christ? By being taught about Him. Not everyone has heard about Him before dying.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Nope, you guys are being intellectually dishonest OR ignorant.

I asked a simple question. Can you prove that they never heard about Christ? Or were never Given the opportunity to believe?

Yes or no?

Okay, a group of missionaries comes to a clan of ppl who had not heard of the gospel, neither about the Christ, nor ever had a bible. Many there come to saving faith.

Now, those in the clan who died before those missionaries came there, how could they have had an opportunity to believe when faith comes from hearing the word? Surely, there is no other Way for ppl to be saved. [John 14:6 & Acts 4:12 just for starters]

 

[JonShaff]

So your salvation is based on YOUR faith and YOUR yielding? Okay, but that still doesn't answer the question, why didn't the guy sitting next to you have his own faith and yield to the "proposal?"

What is the difference between you and him?

Why is that question even asked? On what basis does it bear any importance?

 

[JonShaff]

Okay, a group of missionaries comes to a clan of ppl who had not heard of the gospel, neither about the Christ, nor ever had a bible. Many there come to saving faith.

Now, those in the clan who died before those missionaries came there, how could they have had an opportunity to believe when faith comes from hearing the word? Surely, there is no other Way for ppl to be saved. [John 14:6 & Acts 4:12 just for starters]

I asked for a simple yes or no.

 

[JonShaff]

So your salvation is based on YOUR faith and YOUR yielding? Okay, but that still doesn't answer the question, why didn't the guy sitting next to you have his own faith and yield to the "proposal?"

What is the difference between you and him?

First, it's not my salvation, It's God's.

Second, it's not based on my faith, but by God's Grace.

Surely you know these things?

 

[SovereignGrace]

I asked for a simple yes or no.

Its not as simple as that.

Again, if ppl died not hearing the gospel, they stand condemned.

 

[SovereignGrace]

I asked for a simple yes or no.

How do ppl learn about the Christ?

 

[SovereignGrace]

First, it's not my salvation, It's God's.

Second, it's not based on my faith, but by God's Grace.

Surely you know these things?

But it is by grace through faith. So faith is involved. No faith, no salvation.

 

[JonShaff]

But it is by grace through faith. So faith is involved. No faith, no salvation.

So tell me how faith is involved

 

[TCassidy]

First, it's not my salvation, It's God's.

God does not need salvation. You did.

Philippians 1:19 For I know that this shall turn to my salvation through your prayer, and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ,

Philippians 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Romans 13:11 And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

Second, it's not based on my faith, but by God's Grace.

Exactly! First God's regenerating Grace, then we believe, repent, and obey.

Surely you know these things?

Yes, I do, and am heartened to see that now you do too!

 

[TCassidy]

Why is that question even asked? On what basis does it bear any importance?

It helps to examine the question "Why did I get saved but my neighbor didn't. What is the difference between us."

So far it has remained unanswered in any satisfactory way.

 

[SovereignGrace]

So tell me how faith is involved

Its God's gift. He gives it, we believe and are saved.

 

[TCassidy]

So tell me how faith is involved

Faith is our response to the regenerating Grace of God. God gives us Grace and we respond in faith.

 

[SovereignGrace]

It helps to examine the question "Why did I get saved but my neighbor didn't. What is the difference between us."

So far it has remained unanswered in any satisfactory way.

His heart wasn't as hard?
His hearing was better?
He wasn't as blind?

Surely there's something better in those who are saved than those who aren't.

 

[JonShaff]

Faith is our response to the regenerating Grace of God. God gives us Grace and we respond in faith.

What happens when you "Faith" ? What does that look like?

 

[JonShaff]

His heart wasn't as hard?
His hearing was better?
He wasn't as blind?

Surely there's something better in those who are saved than those who aren't.

Setting up the pins and knocking 'em Down!

You guys sure know how to set up awesome Red Herrings.

 

[TCassidy]

What happens when you "Faith" ? What does that look like?

You believe that Christ died on the cross for your sins, according to the scriptures, that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day, according to the scriptures.

 

[TCassidy]

Setting up the pins and knocking 'em Down!

You guys sure know how to set up awesome Red Herrings.

Nope. Legitimate question. Care to try to answer it?