Rom 14:21[It is] good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor [any thing] whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
Do you follow this rule?
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Priest and Wine
- Thread starter steaver
- Start date
Rom 14:21[It is] good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor [any thing] whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
Do you follow this rule?
I don't think my sharing what I had for dinner is bragging. It was a fairly simple, standard meal at our home. The point is that my wife and I had a glass of wine with dinner and I have yet to understand how that impacts or offends you in any way.
Thank you Sag. That makes sense to me too.
Really? I'm not sure I follow.
My wife dresses for church, but often what she wears is not appropriate for church. For example, she plays tennis but I don't think she would wear her tennis clothes to church. It's not immodest, it's just tennis clothes. She also wouldn't wear her (one piece) swimsuit to church either. She wears that in a pool or at the beach. Or the shorts that she wears while working in the back yard. The list goes on.
The same for me. I wear t-shirts, shorts & deck shoes a lot of the time, but doubt that I would ever wear them to church.
To me, the idea is teach our children to dress appropriately for the occasion and to dress modestly. However, we don't have to have on "church" clothes all the time.
Robert Snow
New Member
I believe that is an outright lie! If you were truly offended, you would leave the thread. You are offended that everyone doesn't see the alcohol issue like you do. Get over it!
Like Ben Franklin said: "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy."
Pro 20:1Wine [is] a mocker, strong drink [is] raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.
Pro 23:31Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, [when] it moveth itself aright.
Gal 6:7Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
This week I'm wearing a t-shirt and jeans to church - yet these are things that I forbid my family from wearing to Sunday church. Why am I wearing these things? Because we're doing VBS and I'm feeding 600 people.
I agree that there is appropriate for a situation. I go horseback riding and am quite modest when I do (polo shirt that covers my belly WELL and my riding breeches (snug but not tight) along with my tall leather boots and quite unflattering helmet) but I certainly wouldn't wear them to church. I'd also not be caught dead going to the barn in sandals and a skirt because that's just asking for trouble between the huge flies and mosquitos and very large hooves but for church? Absolutely. There is nothing wrong with "appropriate for the situation". I believe the use of alcohol is the same.
Still using those same two verses out of context huh? Why? It does not help your argument in the least. I agree that anyone deceived by alcohol is not wise. But there is not one verse in Scripture that says that we are to abstain from alcohol as a believer because it's a sin.
Pro 23:31Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, [when] it moveth itself aright.
quantumfaith
Active Member
You "might" be able to make you point a bit more meaningful if you addressed vs.30,
"those who "linger" over wine....
Robert Snow
New Member
Deu 14:24 And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it; or if the place be too far from thee, which the LORD thy God shall choose to set his name there, when the LORD thy God hath blessed thee:
Deu 14:25 Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the LORD thy God shall choose:
Deu 14:26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,
Deu 14:25 Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the LORD thy God shall choose:
Deu 14:26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
Sure as long as its in moderation. Not just in use but when to use it as well.
Yes, it would apply to unbelievers.
Its not about offense but causing someone else to stumble. You should not flaunt your freedom in front of someone who isn't free because of addiction. A person who is just a legalist should be dealt with gently and with respect because this probably isn't the only area of judgemental thinking for this person. He may condemn you for watching a Disney movie. Or for using electricity.
I'm not a pastor and could care less about those offended. I on the other hand care very much about those who may stumble. which is why I don't support Church sponsored events where drinking alchohol is involved.
Now I don't drink very much to begin with so I can live with our without it no big deal. However, I personally dislike legalist and can care less if I offend them because in reality invariably something I do will offend them.
It would make my very happy if you all promised me that you will stop drinking alcohol and promise to never touch it again. Care to make me happy? Or don't you care if I am happy?
Dr. Walter
New Member
Good point!
I think we have carried the idea of not offending someone way too far. Everyone is "offended" by something now days. Where do you draw the line? My goodness a brother is offended just because another brother speaks of enjoying a glass of wine with his wife in the privacy of his own home. Someone needs to grow up Please, if anything is going to offend us it should be the fact that my neighbor is going to die and go to hell not that some unseen person reports enjoying a glass of wine.
Good point brother :thumbsup:
I think it was Zenas who said he throws parties with a keg of beer on tap. That pretty much covers verse 30. More than twenty ounces of beer over an hour or so is proven to make one drunk.
I have been to many parties with a keg on tap and I don't recall too many people stopping at just one or two cup fulls. Maybe his gathering is different, but I suspect that he is probably one of those people that says he can drink more than two or three and not be drunk. The old "I'm not drunk, just buzzed". I have heard this one alot from my old drinking buddies. In fact, I had said the same many times myself.
I've since stopped lying to myself because I stopped looking at the drug for my tension release. I now look to God and the Holy Spirit instead.
Ever try a light massage to the lower neck area by your husband? Same results without the booze. Try it sometime.
Listen Ann, I have heard all the excuses in the book of the "I want my alcohol" crowd. Nothing new has been offered in this debate. If you love your wine then by all means drink up and be drunk, no not drunk, I mean merry, buzzed, relaxed or whatever word makes you feel vindicated.
I have been on your side of this debate at one time and went toe to toe with other Christians trying to defend my alcohol. But the more I've studied scripture, society and the more I've desired to be filled by the holy Ghost, the less I wanted any part of being "merry" on alcohol. It's probably a matter of spiritual maturity in Christ.
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
First of all alcoholic drinks aren't "mine". Next there are medical supports for regularly drinking wine (not in excess). Primarily its good for the heart and your blood. Excessive drinking counter actst he good aspect that wine has for the body and ends up being more negative than positive. I think drinking is a major issue for two types of people 1) those who are addicted and need to feel some sort of way. 2) people with legalistic leanings who often are just as absorbed with prohibiting certain clothing styles and dancing and mixed bathing. Otherwise its really a non issue. Everything in moderation. In my mind over drinking is like over eating or over watching tv or over anything else that should be in moderation.
Tom Butler
New Member
A young friend of mine, given to malapropisms, cracked me up when he said, "I drink a little wine for municipal purposes."
I have gone to a licensed massage therapist and a physical therapist and it has not helped as much.
Well, as I said, I don't drink any longer but if I did, the Scriptures make me feel vindicated.
LOL - Spiritual maturity in Christ? Actually I find it is but it's quite the opposite of your thoughts. It tends to be those who do not understand the Scriptures or those who listen to other voices than Scripture who have the issue. When one truly studies Scripture, we find it a matter of liberty, not law.
This arrogance and legalism is starting to offend me very deeply. As I have grown in Christ, this has become less of a problem for me. I was once on your side, believe it or not, and was ready to condemn each and every person, especially Christian, who I saw drinking.
Of course, I was raised in Texas in the SBC, which is known for an illogical and unbiblical stance on alcohol (not that every member is that way). My parents are not as radical as steaver, but make their opinion known well. So I know the company line here, and it doesn't sway me one bit. But I was convicted of my legalistic and arrogant attitude toward others, and then, much to my surprise, realized that responsible consumption did nothing negative for my witness in general. Nobody cares. Non-Christians I have known are even impressed that a Christian isn't bound by silly little rules .
If I know or suspect that drinking would be a problem for someone, it's easy. I don't do it and I don't even feel like I need to bring it up. I know there are some people that struggle with alcohol addiction or have chosen not to, so I refrain out of respect for that. But someone telling me it's wrong and ungodly or unbiblical or anything else doesn't sway me one bit, because they don't have a leg to stand on.