Primitive Baptists beliefs

[pinoybaptist]

What? Your church doesn't believe in Deut. 29:29? I wasn't speaking of Calvinism or "my church" in my post at all. You make up things that are not there. You need to believe what Deut. 29:29 says. And if you do believe it your complaints would dissipate. If the Lord of all does right then you don't have to worry, murmur, fume and fuss as you do so often.

If I might ask, since I came onto the conversation a little late, what does Deuteronomy 29:29 have to do with the thread and on PB beliefs ?

 

[Rippon]

If I might ask, since I came onto the conversation a little late, what does Deuteronomy 29:29 have to do with the thread and on PB beliefs ?

In response to the rant that EW&F has been on since post 10. Just go back and check the progress of the thread since that point.

 

[Iconoclast]

Primitive Baptists believe that predestination has reference only to the final destiny of God's people, not to the events of daily life

This is a denial of the Biblical God.

 

[pinoybaptist]

This is a denial of the Biblical God.

explain, please.

 

[kyredneck]

Primitive Baptists believe that predestination has reference only to the final destiny of God's people, not to the events of daily life

This is a denial of the Biblical God.

So, was the mosquito that lighted on you and bit you predestined of God to do so? Or does time and chance happen to us all?

The word 'predestinate' is used only four times in the bible and is always in reference to God calling out a people for His own possession, NOT to events in this temporal realm.

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. Ro 8

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: Eph 2

 

[pinoybaptist]

In response to the rant that EW&F has been on since post 10. Just go back and check the progress of the thread since that point.

But things pertaining to the election of God's people, and the dispensation of His grace and mercy to those He chose to be gracious and merciful to, doesn't seem, to me, to be among the secret things, that Moses refers to.

Scripture is clear about these things, albeit these truths may not be found lumped up in one book, but scattered in so many pages among the books written by His people in so many years from different backgrounds and contexts (?).

It is left to us, of this age's generations, for whom the Bible was written and given in print as a library or compilation of 66 books, to correctly identify these truths by properly dividing Scripture.

 

[kyredneck]

This is a denial of the Biblical God.

That really ticks me off. In no way do the Primitive Baptists 'deny the Biblical God'. This is a downright arrogant, ignorant misrepresentation on your part to make such a statement.

I'm getting to dislike Puritans more and more on account of you. Perhaps you're not doing such a good job of representing them? Or are they really this judgmental?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

That really ticks me off. In no way do the Primitive Baptists 'deny the Biblical God'. This is a downright arrogant, ignorant misrepresentation on your part to make such a statement.

I'm getting to dislike Puritans more and more on account of you. Perhaps you're not doing such a good job of representing them? Or are they really this judgmental?

Join the club:smilewinkgrin:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

This is your whole problem, you are basing your whole belief system on your sister and whether babies go to hell or not, but the Redman you could care less about. I could get caught up as you are by babies in the Indian thing because they are my people and be just like you are. The truth is, the judge of all the earth shall do right. That is where you should leave it and move on. Also Deut 29:29 The secret things belong unto the Lord our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever. There are some things God will not reveal to us this side of the grave, I accept this because I know the judge of all the earth shall do right. Also who hath known the mind of the Lord or who has been his counselor ? Canst thou by searching find out God ? canst thou find out the Almighty unto perfection ? Job 11:7 If we knew every detail about God, we would be gods.

Salzer.....I apologize to you for my tone yesterday....in truth I was angry & took a swing at you which was unwarranted so I am sincerely sorry for it.

 

[Iconoclast]

Hello Kyred

my post was a response to a. direct quote from ewfs link.
Before i respond to you directly....would you take the time to examine the link and let me know if you agree with that link and it's contents.
You can provide your own link if you like.
the one posted has several errors in it.

I will respond fully when i finish my deliveries.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Hello Kyred

my post was a response to a. direct quote from ewfs link.
Before i respond to you directly....would you take the time to examine the link and let me know if you agree with that link and it's contents.
You can provide your own link if you like.
the one posted has several errors in it.

I will respond fully when i finish my deliveries.

You mean the attachment on post 67 authored by Michael Gowens ?

 

[kyredneck]

....would you take the time to examine the link....

You mean the one with, "[The Calvinistic view of perseverance] fosters a climate of condescension and judgmentalism",?

 

[Rippon]

Salzer.....I apologize to you for my tone yesterday....in truth I was angry & took a swing at you which was unwarranted so I am sincerely sorry for it.

I knew it. You DO have to let some things go.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

You mean the one with "The Calvinistic view of perseverance] fosters a climate of condescension and judgmentalism",?

Oh that came from from Jerome's post ....Was it post # 11?

 

[Yeshua1]

Again, the salvation you are addressing is gospel salvation, which is a discipleship of those whom Christ called out to a congregation.
Interestingly, this was one of those addressed by our pastor this morning in his sermon.
In his view, there is only ONE salvation, which is the salvation wrought by Christ on the cross for all the elect in time, and covenanted to by the Great One-in-Three, Jehovah God, with Himself (the three Persons), in eternity past.
Time salvation is that aspect of One salvation which is IN RELATION to eternal salvation, wherein those so-called and so-gathered into a congregation IN TIME, before Him, are discipled on how to behave here in time as pilgrims on a journey home, in order for them not to miss out on the blessings of eternal life here in time.
Whether or not they hear, heed, or turn into deed, those instructions however, does not affect their eternal standing with God.




The practical fact is that not all of the elect will get to hear about the good news of their salvation, and come under discipleship.
This was as true of Christ's time here on earth, as it is today.

There is no scripture in the Bible that teaches to us though that a sinner can be saved apart from receiving the provisions of God thru faith, so one is either lost or saved in this life, which will remain same state throughout eternity!

 

[pinoybaptist]

There is no scripture in the Bible that teaches to us though that a sinner can be saved apart from receiving the provisions of God thru faith, so one is either lost or saved in this life, which will remain same state throughout eternity!

You completely fail to grasp the concept that the differences between ETERNAL SALVATION and GOSPEL salvation are that the former is completely of GOD and passive to the sinner and the latter is based on the sinner's input to the salvation news that he receives, I.e. faith in the finished work of Christ and obedience to His word.

 

[PreachTony]

Forgive me for lacking information on this. I'm learning that I'm apparently far less educated than many of the people here...far more unlearned, apparently.

You completely fail to grasp the concept that the differences between ETERNAL SALVATION and GOSPEL salvation are that the former is completely of GOD and passive to the sinner and the latter is based on the sinner's input to the salvation news that he receives, I.e. faith in the finished work of Christ and obedience to His word.

Pinoy - So there's more than one salvation?

The Book of Life was written (finished, done, and populated) from the foundation of the world. Which means every person that was named there was named and had his name on there from the foundation of the world. It follows therefore that the blood shed FROM THE FOUNDATION of the world by the Lamb slain FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD had their redemption and salvation redeemed IN GOD'S ETERNAL MIND before He even had the first star created.

These are the elect who at that point were not even existing in time, on earth, but in God's mind, whose salvation and redemption as far as the Triune God is concerned, is done and delivered.

Their eternal salvation and redemption, authored by Christ, was PASSIVE, ENTIRELY BASED ON GOD'S MERCY AND GRACE, and TOTALLY UNRELATED TO THEIR SOCIAL, RACIAL, TRIBAL, NATIONAL, THEOLOGICAL, CREDAL, SOTERIOLOGICAL statuses IN TIME.
Their salvation is UNTO HEAVEN, sealed on earth, by the blood of the Lamb of glory slain at the cross on Calvary.

Now, Christ having finished what He was supposed to do here on earth, in time, for the eternal benefit of the elect, directed His apostles (not His church as many maintain), to go out and preach the good news of a God who condescended to man in human form, and took their sins away through His blood, and to instruct those whom they (in their limited physical capacity) are able to reach, in the way they are to live with each other, and those without, as pilgrims on their way to their true country.

The way I'm reading this, the necessity of preaching ended after the last apostle had died, seeing as no one else other than the apostles were commissioned to preach.

Now, we move from eternal salvation, which is solely the province of Christ, absolutely passive to the elect, a GIFT that was GIVEN, not a gift because it is received (as in many illustrations), to TIME SALVATION.

Those who believe, and are baptized, will be saved (gospelly) in that they will move from worship of false gods and doctrines to the worship of the True God, and knowledge of true doctrine.
Now, will everyone hear and obey, among those who are elect ?
Our answer is no.

Notice that in PB teaching, eternal salvation is both universal,( in that social class, theology, creed, geography, physical, mental, psychological infirmities, or chronology is compassed and bypassed by the mercy of God) and individual (in that the elect, and only the elect among mankind and in mankind's existence, are covered by the blood of Christ).

We do not hold that all of mankind will be saved, only those among mankind, wherever and whenever mankind existed and is found, are covered by the blood and therefore atoned for.

What if someone is saved but not able to be baptized, for whatever reason...is that person's salvation weakened or made of none effect?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

You mean the one with, "[The Calvinistic view of perseverance] fosters a climate of condescension and judgmentalism",?

Yea but that's still another thing .....Preservation vs perseverance, ahhhh-- maybe that is another can of worms. :tonofbricks:

 

[kyredneck]

Oh that came from from Jerome's post ....Was it post # 11?

No matter, it hit the nail on the head.

 

[pinoybaptist]

Forgive me for lacking information on this. I'm learning that I'm apparently far less educated than many of the people here...far more unlearned, apparently.


Pinoy - So there's more than one salvation?



The way I'm reading this, the necessity of preaching ended after the last apostle had died, seeing as no one else other than the apostles were commissioned to preach.



What if someone is saved but not able to be baptized, for whatever reason...is that person's salvation weakened or made of none effect?

Hey, there. Actually we are all of us far more ignorant of Scriptures than we care to admit regardless of the scholarly titles we confer on ourselves.
Some of our people among the PB's think of it as two being taught in Scripture, while others talk of it as one with two aspects, eternal and gospel or timely.

Preaching extends beyond the apostles to those in the church separated by the Spirit for that purpose IN THE CHURCH. Preaching is for the edification of the saints, not unbelievers. As for your last question I respond with a question : do you believe one is "unsaved" if not baptized ?