-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Primitive Baptists beliefs
- Thread starter Earth Wind and Fire
- Start date
kyredneck
Yes.....
1._____ God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass; yet so as thereby is God neither the author of sin nor hath fellowship with any therein; nor is violence offered to the will of the creature, nor yet is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established; in which appears his wisdom in disposing all things, and power and faithfulness in accomplishing his decree.( Isaiah 46:10; Ephesians 1:11; Hebrews 6:17; Romans 9:15, 18; James 1:13; 1 John 1:5; Acts 4:27, 28; John 19:11; Numbers 23:19; Ephesians 1:3-5 )
Yes.....
1._____ God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass; yet so as thereby is God neither the author of sin nor hath fellowship with any therein; nor is violence offered to the will of the creature, nor yet is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established; in which appears his wisdom in disposing all things, and power and faithfulness in accomplishing his decree.( Isaiah 46:10; Ephesians 1:11; Hebrews 6:17; Romans 9:15, 18; James 1:13; 1 John 1:5; Acts 4:27, 28; John 19:11; Numbers 23:19; Ephesians 1:3-5 )
So Kyred.....are you okay with the content of both links. ? Do they teach what you believe? Do you want to offer some other link...or will these do?
I am just seeking clarification before I proceed.:wavey:
salzer mtn
Well-Known Member
I appreciate the apology but none was needed. We all have our bad moments.
How shall they hear without a preacher? A preacher preaches. Of course the unsaved need to hear preaching. They need to hear the Gospel.
Certainly believers need to be under good preaching --it does edify the Lord's people. But don't you realize that when Jesus, Paul, Peter, Stephen and others preached --most of their auditors were unbelievers?
Last edited by a moderator:
Thanks....that is gracious of you....btw my daughter in law to be is partially American Indian....Cherokee and Lenape. Her name is Sarah.
I never let anybody misrepresent God. How would you like it if somebody told you your kid is in hell, and you put them there...this comming from a pastor. So with that implication in place, you could never even hope to be with him in eternity. No I'm wrong about that...just become a non believer, sin to your hearts content and curse God and you will be forever joined with your kin in hell. Thats really the most .....ah forget it.
But you may have yourself.
You keep rehashing the same ole' thing. Why don't you let it go? Why dwell on it. You know the Lord is righteous. You need to trust Him. You put way too much stock in the opinions of people --even people you are angry with. All your rants about the same theme --for years now on the BB. Haven't you the desire to grow past that?
But you haven't and you won't. You'll just let it fester and get worse in time.
Anger and bitterness won't help.
kyredneck
That remains to be seen. I am asking you to define what you believe.Do you stand by the two links offered in this thread....
Not based on what I saw on the two posted links;
I
the puritans were concerned with holiness of life....if you do not like that...you will not like them.Up to this point I have not had any problem with you or what you post for the most part...however it looks like you are looking to change that.
Primitive Baptists, landmarkers, do not interest me. In trying to maintain their "distinctiveness"...they isolate themselves into a hypercalvinistic view that attacks the reformed Baptist beliefs that are more in line with a balanced view of grace. That is what I have read or understood so far, and nothing being posted here is telling me to think otherwise.
I will address both of these weak links and defend against this error.
I will address the anti -cal ranting and accusation of arrogance, ignorance and whatever you want to put on the table.....
To not to believe the doctrines of grace as many do here is one thing...but just because you cherry pick some ideas from the puritans and reformers, then attack them in the next breath does not lead to "purity of doctrine" as the links believe they have.
I have been riding on the back roads down here in the south the last few months. I see a few of these churches...always small , very few cars, dying, if these links are any indication of what is happening inside these buildings... I can understand why.
To turn from mainstream teaching and to invent novelties is not going to get it done. You invited my attention ....now you have got it.
There are many who could speak more about them. There is a pastor Don Kistler. who knows and speaks about them. I have heard him at a conference and will stand by his teaching.
http://www.sermonaudio.com/search.a...ection=sermonsspeaker&keyword=Dr._Don_Kistler
The disgruntled church member who posts such judgemental garbage as this is where you need to look....
That remains to be seen. I am asking you to define what you believe.Do you stand by the two links offered in this thread....
Not based on what I saw on the two posted links;
I
T
.
the puritans were concerned with holiness of life....if you do not like that...you will not like them.Up to this point I have not had any problem with you or what you post for the most part...however it looks like you are looking to change that.
I am not anyones representative...I speak for myself. I can tell you right now if you are supportive of what the error in these two links, you will not like anything I post on this.
Primitive Baptists, landmarkers, do not interest me. In trying to maintain their "distinctiveness"...they isolate themselves into a hypercalvinistic view that attacks the reformed Baptist beliefs that are more in line with a balanced view of grace. That is what I have read or understood so far, and nothing being posted here is telling me to think otherwise.
I will address both of these weak links and defend against this error.
I will address the anti -cal ranting and accusation of arrogance, ignorance and whatever you want to put on the table.....
To not to believe the doctrines of grace as many do here is one thing...but just because you cherry pick some ideas from the puritans and reformers, then attack them in the next breath does not lead to "purity of doctrine" as the links believe they have.
I have been riding on the back roads down here in the south the last few months. I see a few of these churches...always small , very few cars, dying, if these links are any indication of what is happening inside these buildings... I can understand why.
To turn from mainstream teaching and to invent novelties is not going to get it done. You invited my attention ....now you have got it.
There are many who could speak more about them. There is a pastor Don Kistler. who knows and speaks about them. I have heard him at a conference and will stand by his teaching.
http://www.sermonaudio.com/search.a...ection=sermonsspeaker&keyword=Dr._Don_Kistler
The disgruntled church member who posts such judgemental garbage as this is where you need to look....
Last edited by a moderator:
Gowens and Mozingo err on several points.
They are Landmarkers which is read flag from the get-go. They misrepresent perseverance as held by Calvinists. PB have wrong ideas about predestination mixed in with solid stuff. They misrepresent John Calvin.
I believe these links are not defensible.This anti cal attack is brought on by a concern that they are losing members to cal churches.
It sure would be nice if a non-Calvinist would step up to the plate and say something like the following:
"Everyone here knows I am not a Calvinist. I have had disagreements with a few on this board over the years. But on this issue I will have to side with them a bit. From what I can tell the Primitive Baptists are hyper-Calvinistic and Landmarkers, among other things. They have deviated from the Scriptures. Some may be my brothers and sisters in the Lord, but I can't sit in silence any longer. I have to say that the Calvinists seem to be more biblically balanced."
"Everyone here knows I am not a Calvinist. I have had disagreements with a few on this board over the years. But on this issue I will have to side with them a bit. From what I can tell the Primitive Baptists are hyper-Calvinistic and Landmarkers, among other things. They have deviated from the Scriptures. Some may be my brothers and sisters in the Lord, but I can't sit in silence any longer. I have to say that the Calvinists seem to be more biblically balanced."
In a court of law that would be called leading the witness. Now you know as well as I do that most people wont touch Calvinism because of the hardness of the theology and the smugness of its adherents. Your tactics are quite arrogant and you assume that people are going to throw in with this type of manipulation? :laugh: PLEASE!!! AHH WELL, you may get some lemmings but most people will shy away from you because of this. And to tell you the truth, I feel nothing but sorry for you....sorry that you seem incabable of distinguishing mercy from justice. Sorry that you feel compelled to rely on sleazy underhanded tactics....its just sad and pathetic on so many levels.:tear:
Oh please....lets not go there. Calvinistic churches are quite effective in loosing members quite on their own.....so if they pick up a wayward member from any other church then good for them but to state that a Old School Church is conserned with loosing membership to you is quite laughable.
Besides I seem to remember that it was you who threw the first punch with your statement that PB theology is not biblical.
Last edited by a moderator:
All right....back up your statments. First, show me the evidence where they claim to be landmarkers! BTW I seem to recall a man on the BB, who will remain anonymous, who pubically stated he is a Landmarker and a Calvinist....so do you have a problem with that also? Next this so called misrepresentation of Calvinist doctrine and this devotion to the personage of a dead Protestant leader is just another example of disengenuious behavior. These are topics of discussion....nothing more. However constant rehashing is nauseating. I will go no further with this......the burden of proof rests with you.
EW&F :You are in a perpetual angry mode. You bathe in bitterness --Why?
Of course I do. They're brothers and sisters in the Lord who hold to this false doctrine --but they are still in the Lord.
Distortion is still distortion --like it or not EW&F.
How can it possibly be disingenuous on my part if the duo mischaracterized the man from Geneva?
That's what forums are for.
Take a break and cool off.
Nothing here refutes what I previously posted:
“The word 'predestinate' is used only four times in the bible and is always in reference to God calling out a people for His own possession, NOT to events in this temporal realm.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. Ro 8
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: Eph 2”
‘Declaring the end from the beginning’, and, ‘working all things after the counsel of his own will’ is not the predestination of all things. Nothing contained in those passages shows that God predestined from eternity for the mosquito to bite you. You absoluters go beyond what is written and read too much into it which causes unnecessary and unprofitable controversy, and set yourselves up as if you know the mind of God, which is the height of arrogance. And then you’ve the gall to declare that anyone that doesn’t go along with that ‘denies the biblical God’. Just who do you think you are? Are you really that judgmental? Is this what LS doctrine produces, snooty Puritans?
16 And Jehovah said unto Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers; and this people will rise up, and play the harlot after the strange gods of the land, whither they go to be among them, and will forsake me, and break my covenant which I have made with them. Dt 31
4 Because they have forsaken me, and have estranged this place, and have burned incense in it unto other gods, that they knew not, they and their fathers and the kings of Judah; and have filled this place with the blood of innocents,
5 and have built the high places of Baal, to burn their sons in the fire for burnt-offerings unto Baal; which I commanded not, nor spake it, neither came it into my mind: Jer 19
God declared from the beginning that they would forsake Him and play the harlot; He DID NOT predestine from all eternity for them to do so, no, it never even came into His mind! But you’ve the gall and arrogance to believe you actually know the mind of God and set others at nought. That is as repugnant to me as Landmarkism.
I’ve made no bones about what I believe with these matters:
http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=2089594#post2089594
http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=1707433#post1707433
http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=2082367#post2082367
Now proceed on with your bashing.
salzer mtn
Well-Known Member
There are a couple of PB churches about a forty five minute drive from me and several more in different small towns not to far away. I have visited these churches once in a while over the years and yes all of them are small in number and most only hold service once a month. The church buildings are old and in ruin. I remember once when I went a preacher was preaching Luke 16:23 was not a literal burning hell. All of the other messages I have heard out of a PB church was messages on does and don'ts or man's walk in the Christian life. I noticed some of the songs out of their song books are songs about dreams and visions as assurance of salvation. I came out of Land Mark Baptist churches that majored on messages about how the our church is not a denomination and descended from John The Baptist and the PB churches I attended believed the same thing. When I came out of the THE BAPTIST church my main concern was the people was only concerned about the church being exalted but not Christ.