Private prayer language

[DHK]

So who do you speak to when you pray?

I don't speak in a foreign language when I pray. Context is king.
The Bible condemns speaking in foreign languages (tongues) when one prays.

You can not find that in scriptue! As a matter of fact this is what it says about tongues/praying in the spirit...

"For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful." (1 Corinthians 14:14)

The spirit is equivalent to the emotional part of the person in opposition to the mind. See how they are set in opposition to each other. The fact that the mind is unfruitful is a rebuke a condemnation. We are always to have our minds engaged. We are not to be mindless creatures wandering around totally brainless and stupid. Think about it. But my mind is unfruitful!

CEV: 1Co 14:14 For example, if I use an unknown language in my prayers, my spirit prays but my mind is useless.
--Does God praise the useless mindless person?

"If you are praising God with your spirit, how can one who finds himself among those who do not understand say "Amen" to your thanksgiving, since he does not know what you are saying? You may be giving thanks well enough, but the other man is not edified." (1 Corinthians 14:16-17)

Paul was speaking of praising God and giving thanks to God, so this is a reference to the private form of tongues (because the private form of tongues is for speaking to God).

Why should I even answer this. You don't pay attention.
This passage started out:
KJV: "else."
CEV: "For example"
It is an illustration using prayer as the example. It is not condoning prayer. That is all that needs to be said here.
Furthermore, giving thanks in a public place for a meal is not private prayer. That interpretation is a joke.

The word "tongues" is not used in this passage, yet it's clear from the context that "praising God with your spirit" means the same thing as "praising God in tongues" (in the Holy Spirit). So once again..... "praising God with your spirit" and "praising God in the Spirit" and "praising God in tongues" all mean the same thing.

Clearly it does not. spirit (small s) refers to the emotions of a person. If it meant Holy Spirit it would say Holy Spirit. But that is not what is says and that is not what it means. Accept it.

The context is speaking in tongues or foreign languages without interpretation.
1Co 14:16 Suppose some strangers are in your worship service, when you are praising God with your spirit. If they don't understand you, how will they know to say, "Amen"?
1Co 14:17 You may be worshiping God in a wonderful way, but no one else will be helped.
--Emotionally worked up speaking in another language even though no one can understand you. What chaos you are causing. You may be able to understand yourself if you have the genuine gift of a foreign language but what good is that. Your just one big ball of emotions, praising God with your spirit in another language dancing around and no one can understand a thing you are doing or saying. You have allowed your emotions and not your mind to control you.
No one else will be helped.

 

[tamborine lady]

I sometimes think that those who refuse to believe that tongues are still in use today, are saying that the Holy Spirit does not work in that way anymore. If that is true then:

Mr 3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:raying:

 

[awaken]

again, the gift of tongues did NOT operate as prayer by you to God, it ewas used in a local assembly, to give forth the wisdom/knowledge of the Lord meant for that time!

ok, I understand...you can not answer the question or you will have to change your theory!

 

[awaken]

I don't speak in a foreign language when I pray. Context is king.
The Bible condemns speaking in foreign languages (tongues) when one prays.

That was not the question! But I understand why you can not give a straight answer!

The spirit is equivalent to the emotional part of the person in opposition to the mind. See how they are set in opposition to each other. The fact that the mind is unfruitful is a rebuke a condemnation. We are always to have our minds engaged. We are not to be mindless creatures wandering around totally brainless and stupid. Think about it. But my mind is unfruitful!

CEV: 1Co 14:14 For example, if I use an unknown language in my prayers, my spirit prays but my mind is useless.
--Does God praise the useless mindless person?

You do not have understanding of that verse! If your mind is unfruitful it is saying that your mind does not understand what you are praying! In other words you do not know the language or the meaning of what you are saying.

Why should I even answer this. You don't pay attention.
This passage started out:
KJV: "else."
CEV: "For example"
It is an illustration using prayer as the example. It is not condoning prayer. That is all that needs to be said here.
Furthermore, giving thanks in a public place for a meal is not private prayer. That interpretation is a joke.

"For thou verely givest thanks well" See you can not get the correct understanding of that verse when you leave part of it out! I sometimes pray between God and myself in public! That is pretty private to me! Bottom line is praying in the spirit is prayer!

Clearly it does not. spirit (small s) refers to the emotions of a person. If it meant Holy Spirit it would say Holy Spirit. But that is not what is says and that is not what it means. Accept it.

NO it does not mean emotions...can you prove that?
This is off OP...but
your spirit holds three functions:
Conscience (Rom. 9:1; 8:16)
Fellowship (John 4:24; Eph. 8:16)
Intuition (1 Cor. 2:11)
With our spirit we contact, receive and contain God (Holy Spirit).
Your Soul holds three functions:
Mind (Ps. 139:14; Lamentations 3:20)
Will (Job 7:15;6:7)
emotion (Song of Solomon 1:7; Ps. 86:4; Samuel 5:8)
The soul as it is renewed by the Word will express and reflect God.

The context is speaking in tongues or foreign languages without interpretation.
1Co 14:16 Suppose some strangers are in your worship service, when you are praising God with your spirit. If they don't understand you, how will they know to say, "Amen"?
1Co 14:17 You may be worshiping God in a wonderful way, but no one else will be helped.

Correct! Blessing/giving thanks with tongues does not edify the others without the interpretation.

--Emotionally worked up speaking in another language even though no one can understand you. What chaos you are causing. You may be able to understand yourself if you have the genuine gift of a foreign language but what good is that. Your just one big ball of emotions, praising God with your spirit in another language dancing around and no one can understand a thing you are doing or saying. You have allowed your emotions and not your mind to control you.
No one else will be helped.

But then you have to add your own interpretation to it! Therefore you come up with a false conclusion!

 

[awaken]

I sometimes think that those who refuse to believe that tongues are still in use today, are saying that the Holy Spirit does not work in that way anymore. If that is true then:

Mr 3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:raying:

I do not know if I would go that far....because most of them are ignorant of what the scriptures teach!

I was on the other side of this for years until someone sit me down and explained them to me. I was never taught correctly!

We can share truth.....but we can not make them receive it!

 

[awaken]

again, the gift of tongues did NOT operate as prayer by you to God, it ewas used in a local assembly, to give forth the wisdom/knowledge of the Lord meant for that time!

Then you are denying all the questions I presented?

 

[DHK]

You do not have understanding of that verse! If your mind is unfruitful it is saying that your mind does not understand what you are praying! In other words you do not know the language or the meaning of what you are saying.

My understanding of it is great. You deny the meaning, and insert today's modern Charismatic gibberish meaning that comes from paganism into this verse which is horrible. That is why you have trouble with understanding and don't like a clearer translation. Here it is again:

CEV: 1Co 14:14 For example, if I use an unknown language in my prayers, my spirit prays but my mind is useless.
--Does God praise the useless mindless person?

You have the typical Charismatic understanding of tongues (speaking in gibberish) that the Holy Spirit is the one that is interceding and some how interprets your nonsense syllables into a heavenly language interceding for you before God. He makes God to understand the nonsense language that you are speaking by his groaning and utterances that you think he is doing through you.
But the Holy Spirit doesn't do that, and never has.
The Holy Spirit makes groanings that cannot be uttered.
The gift of tongues is a gift of languages. They can be understood. If you had the gift you would understand exactly the language you would be speaking--what language it is, and what it is you are speaking. But you don't, and that in itself proves you don't have the gift.
As the verse says: YOUR MIND IS USELESS!
God does not bless "useless minds."

"For thou verely givest thanks well" See you can not get the correct understanding of that verse when you leave part of it out! I sometimes pray between God and myself in public! That is pretty private to me! Bottom line is praying in the spirit is prayer!

Bottom line is your trying to use an illustration to prove doctrine, not taught elsewhere. That is not hermeneutically correct. Paul is using an illustration to show how they are abusing the gift of tongues. He is not even speaking on prayer, but using it as an illustration. The teaching is on the gift of tongues vs. the gift of prophecy. The teaching is not on prayer at all. It is simply an illustration.

NO it does not mean emotions...can you prove that?

Contrast:
Galatians 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
1Co 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
--In verse 12 there are two different "spirits" mentioned.
In Gal.5 the resultant fruit of either one of those "spirits" are given:

Galatians 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
--These are works. All of these works result from the human unsaved spirit.

Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
--Although fruit, most of these are also emotions are they not?
Love, joy, peace? The spirit is the emotional part of man.

 

[awaken]

My understanding of it is great. You deny the meaning, and insert today's modern Charismatic gibberish meaning that comes from paganism into this verse which is horrible. That is why you have trouble with understanding and don't like a clearer translation. Here it is again:

CEV: 1Co 14:14 For example, if I use an unknown language in my prayers, my spirit prays but my mind is useless.
--Does God praise the useless mindless person?

You have the typical Charismatic understanding of tongues (speaking in gibberish) that the Holy Spirit is the one that is interceding and some how interprets your nonsense syllables into a heavenly language interceding for you before God. He makes God to understand the nonsense language that you are speaking by his groaning and utterances that you think he is doing through you.
But the Holy Spirit doesn't do that, and never has.
The Holy Spirit makes groanings that cannot be uttered.
The gift of tongues is a gift of languages. They can be understood. If you had the gift you would understand exactly the language you would be speaking--what language it is, and what it is you are speaking. But you don't, and that in itself proves you don't have the gift.
As the verse says: YOUR MIND IS USELESS!
God does not bless "useless minds."

Bottom line is your trying to use an illustration to prove doctrine, not taught elsewhere. That is not hermeneutically correct. Paul is using an illustration to show how they are abusing the gift of tongues. He is not even speaking on prayer, but using it as an illustration. The teaching is on the gift of tongues vs. the gift of prophecy. The teaching is not on prayer at all. It is simply an illustration.

Contrast:
Galatians 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
1Co 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
--In verse 12 there are two different "spirits" mentioned.
In Gal.5 the resultant fruit of either one of those "spirits" are given:

Galatians 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
--These are works. All of these works result from the human unsaved spirit.

Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
--Although fruit, most of these are also emotions are they not?
Love, joy, peace? The spirit is the emotional part of man.

Tongues is speaking to God! That is plain in vs. 2
Tongues is praying in the spirit! That is plain in vs. 14
Praying in the spirit is simply that..prayer! That is plain in chapter 14
Blessing with the spirit was done well! That is plain in vs. 17
IF there is no interpretation then we are to speak to ourselves and God! Again in vs. 28 that is plain...speaking to God is prayer!
NO way around it!

 

[Don]

I do understand that verse! He is plainly saying that he would rather speak five words easy to be understood in church than speak in tongues without interpretation! But that does not prove or disprove tongues as prayer! He spoke in tongues, that is the only other plain understanding from that verse!


Speaking to God is prayer!

You do not understand the passage because the passage is not about encouraging people to speak in tongues; it's a rebuke because speaking in tongues was causing confusion and chaos in the assembly. Let all things be done decently and in order.

Are you saying that they did not speakin tongues? Acts 2 says they did!

You are not being honest with me. The subject is a private prayer language. You keep mixing with the general topic of speaking in tongues.

I said that there are no examples of the apostles praying in a private prayer language. You then indicated that Acts 2 could somehow be used to justify the private prayer language. I then stated that this was not an example of speaking in a private prayer language; to which you just twisted my words to indicate I'm trying to say they didn't speak in tongues.

They spoke in tongues; but there was nothing private about it. 1 Cor 14 talks about how to properly speak in tongues; but the only instruction to "pray to yourself and to God" is an instruction to keep from disrupting the assembly. It is not meant to become a doctrine on praying in private spirit languages in closets.

And so my question STILL stands: can you provide any scripture that shows anyone praying in a private prayer language? This is at least the third time I've asked.

vs 15 says you can do both! But the Spirit knows what should be prayed where we sometimes do not!

So God prays to Himself through you? That is the only conclusion that can be drawn here.

What does the rest of the verse say? You guys leave out the part that makes speaking to God plain! ....speak to yourself and God!

Don't disrupt the assembly.

I will ask you again...what was the sign to bellievers? Was it a sign that God baptized them in the Holy Spirit? I am not understanding what you are referring to as a sign to unbelievers because this is how I understand vs. 21-22.

"In the Law it is written: "Through men of strange tongues and through the lips of foreigners I will speak to this people, but even then they will not listen to me," says the Lord. Tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers; prophecy, however, is for believers, not for unbelievers. So if the whole church comes together and everyone speaks in tongues, and some who do not understand or some unbelievers come in, will they not say that you are out of your mind? But if an unbeliever or someone who does not understand comes in while everybody is prophesying, he will be convinced by all that he is a sinner and will be judged by all, and the secrets of his heart will be laid bare. So he will fall down and worship God, exclaiming, "God is really among you!"" (1 Corinthians 14:21-25)

First he says that tongues are a "sign" for unbelievers, but then he says that if unbelievers see people speaking in tongues, the unbelievers will think that the believers are out of their minds.

It turns out that "uninterpreted tongues" have been used in Israel's history as a sign to the unbelieving Israelites that God's judgment had come upon them. Paul was quoting a prophecy from Isaiah 28:11-12:

"Very well then, with foreign lips and strange tongues God will speak to this people, to whom he said, "This is the resting place, let the weary rest"; and, "This is the place of repose"-- but they would not listen." (Isaiah 28:11-12)

This prophecy was fulfilled when the Assyrian army swooped down upon Israel speaking a foreign language (an uninterpreted tongue), carrying Israel off into captivity. Paul used an example from Israel's history to show that uninterpreted tongues are sometimes used as a "sign" for unbelievers that judgment has come upon them.

Then Paul pointed out that if an unbeliever enters a church where Christians seem to have lost their minds, the unbeliever wouldn't see this as a sign of impending judgment. This is why Paul said that prophecy is much more beneficial during a church service.

First you are adamant that speaking in tongues is magnifying God; now you indicate that for unbelievers, magnifying God in an unknown language is a sign of impending judgment.

But I believe the point was that they were praising God! Magnifying God!

But you just got through equating speaking in tongues with impending judgment. So how does magnifying God become a sign of impending judgment for the unbeliever?

So then do we agree that the one purpose was to praise God? That the Corinthian church was using tongues a praise/blessing/prayer in the church without interpretation?

No; we agree that tongues are a sign to unbelievers. Acts 2 doesn't say that the apostles did not know what was being said; it says that the unbelievers heard and understood the apostles, in each unbeliever's native language.

And again, no; the Corinthian church may have had intentions to be praising God, but as Paul said: they had become as barbarians. And we all remember the old saying about which road is paved with good intentions.

We have been in revival this week...so, no!

Feel free to send me a private message when you have.

 

[awaken]

You do not understand the passage because the passage is not about encouraging people to speak in tongues; it's a rebuke because speaking in tongues was causing confusion and chaos in the assembly. Let all things be done decently and in order.

He is discouraging tongues without interpretation in church!

You are not being honest with me. The subject is a private prayer language. You keep mixing with the general topic of speaking in tongues.

No, you brought up the apostles! I simple said they spoke in tongues. I believe tongues is speaking to God! I believe prayer/tongues can be done in the assembly with interpretation or in private! I do not see anywhere in scriptures where any of the gifts are limited to JUST the assembly. The OP is trying to say tongues is not private prayer or most here say it is not prayer at all!

I said that there are no examples of the apostles praying in a private prayer language. You then indicated that Acts 2 could somehow be used to justify the private prayer language. I then stated that this was not an example of speaking in a private prayer language; to which you just twisted my words to indicate I'm trying to say they didn't speak in tongues.

I know this thread is long! But I have posted my view on what they were doing in Acts 2, 10 and 1 Cor. 14 also confirms my view that tongue is speaking to God! That is prayer!

They spoke in tongues; but there was nothing private about it. 1 Cor 14 talks about how to properly speak in tongues; but the only instruction to "pray to yourself and to God" is an instruction to keep from disrupting the assembly. It is not meant to become a doctrine on praying in private spirit languages in closets.

I am not getting my doctrine from just one verse. I have shown all through scriptures on this thread and others that tongues is praising God/speaking to God.

And so my question STILL stands: can you provide any scripture that shows anyone praying in a private prayer language? This is at least the third time I've asked.

I have shared with you the times tongues is mentioned in Acts they were praising God! They were not speaking to anyone. Yes they heard them speaking/praising God. How much proof do you need to show that speaking to God is prayer! NOWHERE in the scriptures does it limit any kind of prayer to public! I can pray in the spirit or in English in public with the interpretation or in private!

So God prays to Himself through you? That is the only conclusion that can be drawn here.

Yes! The Holy Spirit knows what to pray when I do not!

Don't disrupt the assembly.

True! Without an interpretation tongues in a service is disruptive and does not edify! So speaking to ourselves and to God is still prayer!

First you are adamant that speaking in tongues is magnifying God; now you indicate that for unbelievers, magnifying God in an unknown language is a sign of impending judgment.

That is the sign warning in Isaiah! Otherwise Paul is contradicting himself!
If I am speaking in tongues and an unbeliever is present they will think I am crazy! So what sign is it to unbelievers?

But you just got through equating speaking in tongues with impending judgment. So how does magnifying God become a sign of impending judgment for the unbeliever?

Without an interpretation it would be a sign to unbelievers as judgement! In Acts didn't some of them mock them thinking they were drunk? Peter stood up and preached and in vs. 33 said that what they saw and heard was the Holy Spirit being poured out like Jesus promised. Until Peter stood up they did not know what was happening.

No; we agree that tongues are a sign to unbelievers. Acts 2 doesn't say that the apostles did not know what was being said; it says that the unbelievers heard and understood the apostles, in each unbeliever's native language.

But what did they understand? What were the disciples saying? Who were they speaking too?

And again, no; the Corinthian church may have had intentions to be praising God, but as Paul said: they had become as barbarians. And we all remember the old saying about which road is paved with good intentions.

No, he said they gave thanks well in vs. 17! Again his correction was not what they were saying...it was saying it without interpretaion! If I spoke in a language that you did not understand...it would not benefit you!

Feel free to send me a private message when you have.

I will!

 

[saturneptune]

I sometimes think that those who refuse to believe that tongues are still in use today, are saying that the Holy Spirit does not work in that way anymore. If that is true then:

Mr 3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:raying:

If that were true, it would not be blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. It would be quenching the Spirit. Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is attributing his work to an evil entity or not having Jesus Christ as Savior when one dies.

 

[saturneptune]

Again...you can not answer this because it will prove that tongues is prayer!

We had this message at church Sunday and was wondering if you could interpret the meaning: "Boogy, boogy boogy, boogly woogly. Na, na na na, na na na nah nah, hush, hush, thought I heard her calling my name, alakazaam, shazaam, I'll fly away."

 

[Thomas Helwys]

Certain responses by a certain person on this thread are ample proof of what I have been saying, that Charismatics seek an experience, delude themselves into believing they have had it, and then set out to find scriptures to back it up, scriptures that cannot be taken in context because to do so would refute the experience which they place above scripture. No, they have to deny context, ignore context, and twist the scriptures to make them fit with their experience, thus putting experience above scripture and making their experience the final authority. This is the mark of a cult.

Look, people, I know this to be true. I not only studied it out of textbooks and such, but I witnessed it firsthand through many months of attendance at Charismatic worship services.

I'm going to say the following because I also know it to be the truth: This is a dangerous movement. It destroys lives. I have seen it happen to people I know and love.

To my OP: It is beyond question that there is no scripture that teaches a private prayer language. And since there is no such thing, one should ask himself/herself what is the source of such gibberish and nonsensical babblings? It has two possible sources: 1. The product of a delusional, deceived, and troubled mind, 2. The Enemy. It is certainly not from God.

 

[Thomas Helwys]

We had this message at church Sunday and was wondering if you could interpret the meaning: "Boogy, boogy boogy, boogly woogly. Na, na na na, na na na nah nah, hush, hush, thought I heard her calling my name, alakazaam, shazaam, I'll fly away."

That's American Swahili, ain't it?

 

[Eliyahu]

We had this message at church Sunday and was wondering if you could interpret the meaning: "Boogy, boogy boogy, boogly woogly. Na, na na na, na na na nah nah, hush, hush, thought I heard her calling my name, alakazaam, shazaam, I'll fly away."

Could you explain your ID Saturneptune?

Do you worship Saturn god and Neptune god?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neptune_(mythology)

http://www.crystalinks.com/saturnrome.html

I think there are many pagan believers on this Board and the moderators must do something for such situation !~

 

[Thomas Helwys]

Could you explain your ID Saturneptune?

Do you worship Saturn god and Neptune god?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neptune_(mythology)

http://www.crystalinks.com/saturnrome.html

I think there are many pagan believers on this Board and the moderators must do something for such situation !~

Oh, please!

If they're going to do anything about anyone, they should take care of the nuts and flakes first.

 

[BobRyan]

This is another false doctrine that pentecostals/charismatics teach. They divide tongues into two categories: the gift of tongues, which they say not everybody has, and tongues as a private prayer language which they say every Christian can and should have. Actually, there are three categories because most say tongues is the initial evidence of the HS baptism.

This not scriptural. Romans 8:26,27 does not teach a private prayer language, as charismatics erroneously claim. A careful and unbiased reading of these verses proves that. In 1 Cor. 12 and 14, Paul is talking about the gift of tongues which is not given to every believer, and, in fact, Paul makes it the least important of the gifts. Conversely, charismatics and pentecostals make it the most important gift and greatly overemphasize it.

Thus the charismatics have a multitude of errors on tongues.

As I said, I am not a cessationist, but it is clear that if the gift of tongues is still in operation today, it is exceedingly rare, as the mission field proves. And this belief and teaching of a private prayer language in distinction from the gift of tongues is just so much bunk because the scriptures do not teach it.

I am certainly no cessationist - but I do agree that what is called the popular gift of tongues today, is not at all what Paul was talking about in 1Cor 14.

In 1Cor 14 Paul states that tongues "is a sign to unbelievers" - so if we ignore the Acts 2 definition of tongues - where each unbeliever is hearing in his own native language some person given the gift of tongues in that very language - then how is it a "sign to unbelievers"??

If the unbeliever comes to church and hears jibberish is he/she going to say "wow! I finally found pure jibberish! I have been looking for this all my life and who would have guessed that Christianity had it! I will certainly become a Christian now?".

I think we all agree that this is not the expected result.

How about the "language of angels"?? Is the unbeliever going to come to Church and say "I have been speaking in the tongues of angels - with the angels all my life - and now finally I find a group that knows our secret language! Wow! I will become a Christian"??

I think we all agree that such is not the case.

In fact Paul insists in 1Cor 14 that when the unbeliever hears jibberish they logically respond that this group is whacko. (So I am going with Paul's view of it at this point.) And in the 1Cor 14 case the only reason that Paul gives for one hearing Jibberish when tongues are spoken - is because many are speaking different tongues at the same time resulting in the noise of confusion for the hearer.

But in the modern substitute for it - even one person speaking alone - speaks jibberish for the unbeliever. It is not the gift Paul was addressing in 1Cor 14.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[awaken]

I will repeat my stand on tongues as a prayer language!

Tongues in Acts 2,10 and 19, there are no unbelievers present except in Act 2. What sign was it to those unbelievers? Was it a sign of the baptism in the Holy Spirit?

Acts 10 there were no unbelievers present! After hearing Peter words the Holy Spirit fell on all of them and they were baptized in the Holy Spirit just like the Day of Pentecost. Since all were believers there were no unbelievers present. So here again the sign was to the believing Jews that the Holy Spirit fell on the Gentiles. Can anyone show me any unbelievers present after the Holy Spirit fell upon ALL of them?

Acts 19 does not show any unbelievers present. So what was the sign when they spoke in tongues? Paul was not an unbeliever!

Even in Acts 8 where were the unbelievers and what sign was it? They all believed and were baptized before they received the Holy Spirit. Simon SAW something when they laid hands on them, was it a manifestation of the HOly Spirit?

In Acts 2, 10 and 19 and possibly 8 there were no interpretations! In Acts 2 the unbelievers heard in there own language the disciples magnifying God. That was not the supernatual interpretation because the did not have the Holy Spirit to manifest that gift! They simple understood in there own language.

1 Corinthians 14 is the only other chapter that speaks of tongues except Mark 16 where Jesus said believers would speak with new tongues/languages.
Paul is not forbidding any kind of tongue is service he just wants it done in order and to edify.
Put he does make it clear that tongues is..

Tongues is speaking to God! vs. 2
Tongues is praying in the spirit! vs. 14
Praying in the spirit is simply that..prayer! chapter 14
Blessing with the spirit was done well! That is plain in vs. 17
IF there is no interpretation then we are to speak to ourselves and God! Again in vs. 28 that is plain...speaking to God is prayer!
NO way around it!

The only other scripture mentioning tongues in context he is saying if unbelievers walk in what kind of sign it would be to them!

The last of that chapter it says forbid not speaking in tongue!
So all those that do not believe tongues is not prayer....then you are just denying what Paul says about tongue!
Acts 2 and 10 says they are magnifying and praising God in tongues.
That again is confirmed in...
"If you are praising God with your spirit, how can one who finds himself among those who do not understand say "Amen" to your thanksgiving, since he does not know what you are saying?" (1 Corinthians 14:16)
So praising God is thanksgiving? Thanking God is prayer!

"Many, O LORD my God, are the wonders you have done. The things you planned for us no one can recount to you; were I to speak and tell of them, they would be too many to declare." (Psalms 40:5)

"Say to God, "How awesome are your deeds! So great is your power that your enemies cringe before you."" (Psalms 66:3)

Why were the disciples praising God in tongues? Because this is one of the primary purposes for tongues as shown in 1 Cor. 14:16 above.

And I will add...
Even non-charismatic commentaries agree that the disciples were praising God in tongues and not sharing the Gospel. For example, The Bible Knowledge Commentary (Walvoord and Zuck, Dallas Theological Seminary, p.358) says this:
"The topic the people discussed in all these languages was the wonders of God. It seems they were praising God. Their message was not one of repentance; it was not the gospel." (emphasis added).

So we have discussed it over and over but until you can prove praising God/speaking to God/thanking God is not prayer then no one has a leg to stand on in this debate about tongues being prayer! (public or private)

 

[Revmitchell]

Could you explain your ID Saturneptune?

Do you worship Saturn god and Neptune god?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neptune_(mythology)

http://www.crystalinks.com/saturnrome.html

I think there are many pagan believers on this Board and the moderators must do something for such situation !~

Nearest I can tell the only one who needs something done about is you. Saturn is a long standing member and a solid Christian. For some johnny-come-lagely like your self to come along and question him on his salvation is not going to set will with folks. I suggest you learn your place.

 

[tamborine lady]

I do not know if I would go that far....because most of them are ignorant of what the scriptures teach!

I was on the other side of this for years until someone sit me down and explained them to me. I was never taught correctly!

We can share truth.....but we can not make them receive it!

I know that we can't take scales from their eyes and MAKE them see. But doesn't there come a time when God says that's enough and just cuts them off?