Pro-vax and Anti-vax Totalitarianism

[JonC]

Jon, Post 110 is your post, not carpro's.

I know. That post quoted Carpro. I just looked at the only other version (I had edited after hitting save). What follows the quote is the original post.

I'll return to make it clear on the post.

 

[JonC]

I am sure you feel you have a consistent position regarding state (or federal, if you so believe) governments, but it does not come across that way to me. It seems like "the government should stay out of the policies of private businesses, except when I think they shouldn't."

Now, to be fair, all things are not always as clear-cut as we would like them to be. For example, is our school district a local entity or a state entity? Yes! However, I approach what I understand as a privately owned business in this way, that the government should stay out of their policies and let the policies be "set" by the free enterprise decisions of their customers. As an illustration, think of smoking. Several years ago the swung against smoking and it became popular for cities to adopt no-smoking ordinances. I don't smoke, don't want anyone to blow their smoke in my face, and think it is a nasty & unhealthy habit. So the no-smoking ordinance is (theoretically) in line with my view of smoking. But the city's telling private businesses that people cannot smoke in their establishments is not in line with my view of free enterprise. If the city wants to establish that policy in the buildings they own and control, let them. If I don't want to patronize a restaurant, hotel, or other businesses because they are full of cigarette smoke, I can make that decision without the city's interference, and perhaps there are some other people like being in smoke-filled buildings.

I disagree that viruses and vaccinations are politics.

That said, we cannot be consistent because the government is already involved. We have health inspectors telling us we cannot serve raw chicken in roach infested restaurants.

The problem is they have that authority.

I look at it this way - in health care facilities and nursing homes it would be idiotic not to require vaccinations. At KY fried chicken, perhaps less idiotic.

But as time goes in and I see more and more about what is posted on forums about covid, I am more inclined to support having restaurants post that they do not require vaccinations as a warning to those who would prefer to eat in a safer environment (those with conditions that prohibit a vaccination....or with children- we just lost a 9 year old to covid at our elementary school).

 

[rlvaughn]

I know. That post quoted Carpro. I just looked at the only other version (I had edited after hitting save). What follows the quote is the original post.

I'll return to make it clear on the post.

Please do. Thanks.

I disagree that viruses and vaccinations are politics.

Jon, sometimes your responses just seem strange, like you are trying to redirect the conversation or something. You write as if you are disagreeing with my saying that viruses and vaccinations are politics. However, I did not say that. Yet, I think neither you nor I would disagree that the issue has become very political, whether or not it should be.

That said, we cannot be consistent because the government is already involved.

That is certainly true. And just talking about what ought not to be will not change that. We have many messes that would be hard to untangle. That said, we do not have to agree that what is is what ought to be.

We have health inspectors telling us we cannot serve raw chicken in roach infested restaurants.

The only place I ever got food poisoning had passed an inspection with flying colors, so I'm not overly impressed. I can tell when chicken is raw, though I might not notice the roaches if they keep them beat back out of the obvious places.

The problem is they have that authority.

Yes, I see it as a problem when they have authority that they ought not.

I look at it this way - in health care facilities and nursing homes it would be idiotic not to require vaccinations. At KY fried chicken, perhaps less idiotic.

Why not just make it idiotic to not require vaccinations, period? Then everybody can go on their merry way and die of something else. Well, except our friend who we will bury Monday, who had the two-shot vaccination and got COVID anyway.

But as time goes in and I see more and more about what is posted on forums about covid, I am more inclined to support having restaurants post that they do not require vaccinations as a warning to those who would prefer to eat in a safer environment (those with conditions that prohibit a vaccination....or with children- we just lost a 9 year old to covid at our elementary school).

Seems like a little personal responsibility could resolve this without a government mandate. We are free to ask and research their policy on vaccinations (whether or not they have one).

 

[SGO]

Uh....I don't really care about what you believe. I can only know what you post.

I do not know where you are going with this.

I agree there is an advantage in arguing opposing positions. Not only does it help you strengthen your view but it also helps you to understand the opposing position (it can help talking past one another).

So I have no problem with you arguing views that are not yours. I deal with whatever argument is posted.

I am just saying it is also good to make your own position known.

Oh boy Jon.

According to my computer, 110 is yours.

You deleted:
"Disclaimer: Positions I argue may not be my own."

You can also believe whatever you like, which I can't tell what that is for your disclaimer.

The grass is always greener on both sides.

When attacked I try not to remember this:

As we therefore have opportunity,
let us do good unto all men,
especially unto them that are the household of faith.
Galatians 6:10

I will continue to speak while being Ed 'n Ted and sense sore.

Disclaimer: Positions I argue may not be my own.

 

[JonC]

Please do. Thanks.
Jon, sometimes your responses just seem strange, like you are trying to redirect the conversation or something. You write as if you are disagreeing with my saying that viruses and vaccinations are politics. However, I did not say that. Yet, I think neither you nor I would disagree that the issue has become very political, whether or not it should be.
That is certainly true. And just talking about what ought not to be will not change that. We have many messes that would be hard to untangle. That said, we do not have to agree that what is is what ought to be. The only place I ever got food poisoning had passed an inspection with flying colors, so I'm not overly impressed. I can tell when chicken is raw, though I might not notice the roaches if they keep them beat back out of the obvious places.
Yes, I see it as a problem when they have authority that they ought not.
Why not just make it idiotic to not require vaccinations, period? Then everybody can go on their merry way and die of something else. Well, except our friend who we will bury Monday, who had the two-shot vaccination and got COVID anyway.
Seems like a little personal responsibility could resolve this without a government mandate. We are free to ask and research their policy on vaccinations (whether or not they have one).

I edited that post, but I'm going back to change 110 back to the original. I think that would be easier.

The reason I do not think it idiotic to refrain from requiring vaccinations at all is there cre cases where it makes sense. It makes since in the military. It makes sense in a health care environment. It makes sense for staff in a school system.

I do not think the government should mandate vaccinations for employments that are not government related - that exceeds its authority.

 

[JonC]

@rlvaughn and @SGO,

Here is the original post 110 (the post is also reverted back to the original if you want to look there):

I don't know about data on the streets. I do not watch the news (all I get is conversations here).

The reason I knew the data was from clinical trials and not a prophesy of what would come is because I am not as smart as you guys. I only read the data - not people's conclusions.


What I did was to read the fact sheet on Moderna before I was vaccinated. It said the vaccine had a 94.1% efficacy rate in the trials and broke down the side-effects by how many experienced those things in the trials.

I was satisfied with the clinical trials and thought "what the heck.....I'll give it a go).

 

[JonC]

Oh boy Jon.

According to my computer, 110 is yours.

You deleted:
"Disclaimer: Positions I argue may not be my own."

You can also believe whatever you like, which I can't tell what that is for your disclaimer.

The grass is always greener on both sides.

When attacked I try not to remember this:

As we therefore have opportunity,
let us do good unto all men,
especially unto them that are the household of faith.
Galatians 6:10

I will continue to speak while being Ed 'n Ted and sense sore.

Disclaimer: Positions I argue may not be my own.

Oh....you are not talking about the post. You are talking about my old signature. I don't think avatars and signatures stay with posts indefinitely (if I change my avatar to a less handsome man I think that changes on all of my posts.....i.e , I didn't delete anything but updated my profile to include my signature).

The first time I read this I looked up post 10 (my bad....just aging poorly).

 

[SGO]

Post Traumatic Stress, thank you.