preacher4truth
Active Member
CAN YOU SEE THIS?????????!!!!!!!!!!!! :laugh: :thumbsup:
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Proof of Calvinism
- Thread starter seekingthetruth
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CAN YOU SEE THIS?????????!!!!!!!!!!!! :laugh: :thumbsup:
The Archangel
Well-Known Member
Yes, friend, you are correct. By the way, I didn't think your post was against what I was saying.
Unfortunately, Van has some pretty bizarre ideas and, perhaps more unfortunately, he is absolutely unwilling to be teachable. As I've told him before, there are many on this board--Calvinists and Arminians alike--who have academic degrees in these things. It is not as if we're plumbers who are offering whimsical opinions about scriptural things.
I have enjoyed your posts and I think all that is left for us to do with Van is to pray for him.
Blessings,
The Archangel
preacher4truth
Active Member
Thanks, and will do on the prayer part. Also, some of these preachers here may be "plumbers" and what not, but have given themselves also to formal study and formal education to the things of God (just for the sake of any out there) and NOT that you meant harm. I get your point, we're not "tradesman unlearned in the things of God", (and ANY career or trade could've been used in your context to be fair) yet proclaiming theological truth as if we were educated to do so.
Thanks again The Archangel, very much appreciated. We will pray for Van, that is the right thing to do here.
- Peace
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What am I doing now:tongue3::laugh:
preacher4truth
Active Member
Has anyone seen EWF!?!?!?!?! :wavey:
Wonder if i will still get pm's from him???? :laugh:
Just because some buy from Bass Pro Shops vs L.L. Bean is no reason to throw rocks Archangel.
The Archangel
Well-Known Member
Well, that's true. But we all know L.L. Bean is the best.
For duck boots yes however they are rather shabby when it comes to bass boats & crossbows.:laugh:
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Folks, note that all the Calvinists have to offer are attacks against me, and absolute no scripture to support their false doctrine. Also note how 12 strings misrepresents my position.
It is called strange to believe God remembers no more our sins. This is a denial of scripture by every single person claiming to represent orthodoxy.
Not one of these experts has even listed the verses where God remembers no more our sins. Not one.
No Skandelon has said that no commentary he has looked at says God does not remember our sins.
When God remembers our sins, that carries the idea of taking action as required by His character, i.e providing just punishment. So it is not a stretch to say when God remembers no more forever, it carries the idea of God not taking the action required by the sin because it has been forgiven, the penalty paid in full already. However, it does extreme injustice to the text to claim God ever brings the infraction to mind. He casts it behind Him, He casts it into the sea. This is completely at odds with remembering the infraction but not taking the action required. No, the infraction is put out of sight, which is figurative for God putting the infraction out of His mind, i.e. choosing not to remember it forever. Thus God's knowledge is not total according to all the verses, like Hebrews 8:12, Hebrews 10:17 and Jeremiah 31:34 and others.
It is called strange to believe God remembers no more our sins. This is a denial of scripture by every single person claiming to represent orthodoxy.
Not one of these experts has even listed the verses where God remembers no more our sins. Not one.
No Skandelon has said that no commentary he has looked at says God does not remember our sins.
When God remembers our sins, that carries the idea of taking action as required by His character, i.e providing just punishment. So it is not a stretch to say when God remembers no more forever, it carries the idea of God not taking the action required by the sin because it has been forgiven, the penalty paid in full already. However, it does extreme injustice to the text to claim God ever brings the infraction to mind. He casts it behind Him, He casts it into the sea. This is completely at odds with remembering the infraction but not taking the action required. No, the infraction is put out of sight, which is figurative for God putting the infraction out of His mind, i.e. choosing not to remember it forever. Thus God's knowledge is not total according to all the verses, like Hebrews 8:12, Hebrews 10:17 and Jeremiah 31:34 and others.
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There is always benefit in the study of God’s Word.
Here are some verses where God says He will not remember our sins anymore, along with commentaries.
Hebrews 10:16-18
16 “THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THEM
AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD:
I WILL PUT MY LAWS UPON THEIR HEART,
AND ON THEIR MIND I WILL WRITE THEM,”
He then says,
17 “AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS
I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE.”
18 Now where there is forgiveness of these things, there is no longer any offering for sin.
[Matthew Henry: Their sins and iniquities he will remember no more (v. 17) which will alone show the riches of divine grace, and the sufficiency of Christ's satisfaction, that it needs not be repeated, v. 18. For there shall be now more remembrance of sin against true believers either to shame them now or to condemn them hereafter. This was much more than the Levitical priesthood and sacrifices could effect.]
[Believers Bible Commentary by William MacDonald: It is arresting that Jeremiah 21:34 contained this promise of full and final forgiveness of sins; yet some of those who lived in the day when the promise began to be fulfilled were disposed to return to the never-ending sacrifices of Judaism!]
Hebrews 8:12 And I will forgive their wickedness, and I will never again remember their sins.”
[Mathew Henry: The fixedness of this pardon. It is so final and so fixed that God will remember their sins no more; he will not recall his pardon; he will not only forgive their sins, but forget them, treat them as if he had forgotten them. This pardoning mercy is connected with all other spiritual mercies. Unpardoned sin prevents mercy, and pulls down judgments; but the pardon of sin prevents judgment, and opens a wide door to all spiritual blessings; it is the effect of that mercy that is from everlasting, and the earnest of that mercy that shall be to everlasting. This is the excellency of the new dispensation, and these are the articles of it; and therefore we have no reason to repine, but great reason to rejoice that the former dispensation is antiquated and has vanished away.]
Isaiah 43:25
25 “I, even I, am the one who wipes out your transgressions for My own sake, And I will not remember your sins.
[Matthew Henry: How the pardon is expressed: he will blot them out, as a cloud is blotted out by the beams of the sun (ch. 44:22), as a debt is blotted out not to appear against the debtor (the book is crossed as if the debt were paid, because it is pardoned upon the payment which the surety has made), or as a sentence is blotted out when it is reversed, as the curse was blotted out with the waters of jealously, which made it of no effect to the innocent. Num. 5:23. He will not remember the sin which intimates not only that he will remit the punishment of what is past, but what it shall be no diminution to his love for the future. When God fogives, he forgets.]
[Wayne Grudem, in Systematic Theology: page 192: Omniscience:
Someone may object that God promises to forget our sins. For example, he says, “I will not remember your sins” (Isa. 43:25). Yet passages like this can certainly be understood to mean that God will never again let the knowledge of these sins play any part in the way he relates to us: he will “forget” them in his relationship to us.]
Jeremiah 31:34 And they will not need to teach their neighbors, nor will they need to teach their relatives, saying, ‘You should know the Lord.’ For everyone, from the least to the greatest, will know me already,” says the Lord. “And I will forgive their wickedness, and I will never again remember their sins.”
[Matthew Henry: That, in order to all these blessings, sin shall be pardoned. This is made the reason of all the rest: For I will forgive their iniquity, will not impute that to them, nor deal with them according to the desert of that, will forgive and forget: I will remember their sin no more. It is sin that keeps good things from us, that stops the current of God’s favours; let sin be taken away by pardoning mercy, and the obstruction is removed, and divine grace runs down like a river, like a mighty stream.]
Amen!
Here are some verses where God says He will not remember our sins anymore, along with commentaries.
Hebrews 10:16-18
16 “THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THEM
AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD:
I WILL PUT MY LAWS UPON THEIR HEART,
AND ON THEIR MIND I WILL WRITE THEM,”
He then says,
17 “AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS
I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE.”
18 Now where there is forgiveness of these things, there is no longer any offering for sin.
[Matthew Henry: Their sins and iniquities he will remember no more (v. 17) which will alone show the riches of divine grace, and the sufficiency of Christ's satisfaction, that it needs not be repeated, v. 18. For there shall be now more remembrance of sin against true believers either to shame them now or to condemn them hereafter. This was much more than the Levitical priesthood and sacrifices could effect.]
[Believers Bible Commentary by William MacDonald: It is arresting that Jeremiah 21:34 contained this promise of full and final forgiveness of sins; yet some of those who lived in the day when the promise began to be fulfilled were disposed to return to the never-ending sacrifices of Judaism!]
Hebrews 8:12 And I will forgive their wickedness, and I will never again remember their sins.”
[Mathew Henry: The fixedness of this pardon. It is so final and so fixed that God will remember their sins no more; he will not recall his pardon; he will not only forgive their sins, but forget them, treat them as if he had forgotten them. This pardoning mercy is connected with all other spiritual mercies. Unpardoned sin prevents mercy, and pulls down judgments; but the pardon of sin prevents judgment, and opens a wide door to all spiritual blessings; it is the effect of that mercy that is from everlasting, and the earnest of that mercy that shall be to everlasting. This is the excellency of the new dispensation, and these are the articles of it; and therefore we have no reason to repine, but great reason to rejoice that the former dispensation is antiquated and has vanished away.]
Isaiah 43:25
25 “I, even I, am the one who wipes out your transgressions for My own sake, And I will not remember your sins.
[Matthew Henry: How the pardon is expressed: he will blot them out, as a cloud is blotted out by the beams of the sun (ch. 44:22), as a debt is blotted out not to appear against the debtor (the book is crossed as if the debt were paid, because it is pardoned upon the payment which the surety has made), or as a sentence is blotted out when it is reversed, as the curse was blotted out with the waters of jealously, which made it of no effect to the innocent. Num. 5:23. He will not remember the sin which intimates not only that he will remit the punishment of what is past, but what it shall be no diminution to his love for the future. When God fogives, he forgets.]
[Wayne Grudem, in Systematic Theology: page 192: Omniscience:
Someone may object that God promises to forget our sins. For example, he says, “I will not remember your sins” (Isa. 43:25). Yet passages like this can certainly be understood to mean that God will never again let the knowledge of these sins play any part in the way he relates to us: he will “forget” them in his relationship to us.]
Jeremiah 31:34 And they will not need to teach their neighbors, nor will they need to teach their relatives, saying, ‘You should know the Lord.’ For everyone, from the least to the greatest, will know me already,” says the Lord. “And I will forgive their wickedness, and I will never again remember their sins.”
[Matthew Henry: That, in order to all these blessings, sin shall be pardoned. This is made the reason of all the rest: For I will forgive their iniquity, will not impute that to them, nor deal with them according to the desert of that, will forgive and forget: I will remember their sin no more. It is sin that keeps good things from us, that stops the current of God’s favours; let sin be taken away by pardoning mercy, and the obstruction is removed, and divine grace runs down like a river, like a mighty stream.]
Amen!
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preacher4truth
Active Member
Not one calvinist has "attacked" you in this thread.
In all honesty I cannot say the same about you and your tenure here concerning your attack on calvinists/calvinism. This is the plain truth, you've been on the attack.
You're in error theologically here. No need to share Scriptures with you, giving you something else to rend.
Calvinists & non-cals alike can see your fallacious teachings.
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Is Scandalon a Calvinist?
Folks P4T rightly understands I am attacking Calvinism.
I have demonstrated, to my satisfaction, that God remembering our sins no more forever, means He puts what He has foregiven, the infraction paid by Christ, out of His mind. Therefore, by logical necessity, total omniscience is unbiblical. Inherent omniscience is the biblical doctrine.
I have shown that the verses that say God is all knowing refer to God knowing everything about the hearts of those in view, such as Peter and the other disciples in John 21.
No actual effort has been made to defend the false doctrine, only to claim it is true and attack me for not accepting what is unbiblical.
If God devises plans, then He alters what would have occurred otherwise. Why would God devise a plan if His action did not alter the future? You have no answer!!
Why would God say now I know, if He already knew? You have no answer, except to say God did not really mean what He said. Thus you let man-made doctrine nullify scripture after scripture after scripture.
I have demonstrated, to my satisfaction, that God remembering our sins no more forever, means He puts what He has foregiven, the infraction paid by Christ, out of His mind. Therefore, by logical necessity, total omniscience is unbiblical. Inherent omniscience is the biblical doctrine.
I have shown that the verses that say God is all knowing refer to God knowing everything about the hearts of those in view, such as Peter and the other disciples in John 21.
No actual effort has been made to defend the false doctrine, only to claim it is true and attack me for not accepting what is unbiblical.
If God devises plans, then He alters what would have occurred otherwise. Why would God devise a plan if His action did not alter the future? You have no answer!!
Why would God say now I know, if He already knew? You have no answer, except to say God did not really mean what He said. Thus you let man-made doctrine nullify scripture after scripture after scripture.
preacher4truth
Active Member
Reply to P4T
Here is what Archangel said:
Unfortunately, Van has some pretty bizarre ideas and, perhaps more unfortunately, he is absolutely unwilling to be teachable.
Now rather than post truth, P4T simply claims the above statement is not an attack on me personally, i.e. I am unteachable.
Folks, deception is the stock and trade of Calvinism.
Here is what Archangel said:
Unfortunately, Van has some pretty bizarre ideas and, perhaps more unfortunately, he is absolutely unwilling to be teachable.
Now rather than post truth, P4T simply claims the above statement is not an attack on me personally, i.e. I am unteachable.
Folks, deception is the stock and trade of Calvinism.
Here is another commentary on Omniscience
[Lewis Sperry Chafer, Systematic Theology, Book 7, Page 244: Omniscience:
The knowledge of God is not subject to increase or decrease, nor subject to reason, is not distressed by regretting, memory, or foreboding. As an anthropomorphism, God is represented as attaining to knowledge and as repenting (Gen. 6:6; 11:5).
[Lewis Sperry Chafer, Systematic Theology, Book 7, Page 244: Omniscience:
The knowledge of God is not subject to increase or decrease, nor subject to reason, is not distressed by regretting, memory, or foreboding. As an anthropomorphism, God is represented as attaining to knowledge and as repenting (Gen. 6:6; 11:5).
Folks P4T rightly understands I am attacking Calvinism.
I have demonstrated, to my satisfaction, that God remembering our sins no more forever, means He puts what He has foregiven, the infraction paid by Christ, out of His mind. Therefore, by logical necessity, total omniscience is unbiblical. Inherent omniscience is the biblical doctrine.
I have shown that the verses that say God is all knowing refer to God knowing everything about the hearts of those in view, such as Peter and the other disciples in John 21.
No actual effort has been made to defend the false doctrine, only to claim it is true and attack me for not accepting what is unbiblical.
If God devises plans, then He alters what would have occurred otherwise. Why would God devise a plan if His action did not alter the future? You have no answer!!
Why would God say now I know, if He already knew? You have no answer, except to say God did not really mean what He said. Thus you let man-made doctrine nullify scripture after scripture after scripture.
Still waiting for answers, but expecting more evasions.
I have demonstrated, to my satisfaction, that God remembering our sins no more forever, means He puts what He has foregiven, the infraction paid by Christ, out of His mind. Therefore, by logical necessity, total omniscience is unbiblical. Inherent omniscience is the biblical doctrine.
I have shown that the verses that say God is all knowing refer to God knowing everything about the hearts of those in view, such as Peter and the other disciples in John 21.
No actual effort has been made to defend the false doctrine, only to claim it is true and attack me for not accepting what is unbiblical.
If God devises plans, then He alters what would have occurred otherwise. Why would God devise a plan if His action did not alter the future? You have no answer!!
Why would God say now I know, if He already knew? You have no answer, except to say God did not really mean what He said. Thus you let man-made doctrine nullify scripture after scripture after scripture.
Still waiting for answers, but expecting more evasions.
Van, I normally agree with most things you say, but I think when God says he will remember our sins no more it means he will put our sins out of his mind, he will not think about them anymore. This is no different than when we forgive one another, it doesn't mean we can't call to rememberance something someone has done, but we choose to put it out of our mind and not think about it anymore.
preacher4truth
Active Member
Telling you that you are unteachable isn't a personal attack, it is rather an empathetic and factual statement describing you perfectly. If you call "reproofs of instruction" an "attack", you're in more serious error that I've imagined, and remain more unteachable in spirit than what we first thought.
Several on this thread, even a non-cal have called you out on your error.
As an anthropomorphism,
One of the overworked tools of nullification of scripture is to claim God does not actually mean what He says. Figures are used to attribute physical attributes to God, i.e. the hand of God, or the eyes of God, etc but the idea is God can cause change in the physical world, and see what is hidden. To deny the idea behind the illustration is scripture nullification.
Here we have God putting sin behind Him, or blotting it out, or casting it into the sea, but the idea behind it, God putting the forgiven penalty out of His mind is completely intended by the text.
One of the overworked tools of nullification of scripture is to claim God does not actually mean what He says. Figures are used to attribute physical attributes to God, i.e. the hand of God, or the eyes of God, etc but the idea is God can cause change in the physical world, and see what is hidden. To deny the idea behind the illustration is scripture nullification.
Here we have God putting sin behind Him, or blotting it out, or casting it into the sea, but the idea behind it, God putting the forgiven penalty out of His mind is completely intended by the text.
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