Do you recognize the truth stated by Paul in my signature?
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Proof: You were only forgiven of your past sins!
- Thread starter Samuels
- Start date
When ripped out of context i can see why people would have trouble discerning the truth. But when you understand that Paul says we are No Longer in bondage to our sin, that we've been freed from sin, that we now are instruments of God's righteousness, you can understand the beautiful realities of God's eternal Salvation in Christ. God is the one who said He will be faithful to complete our Salvation (Glorification-saved from the presence of Sin). If God said He will do it, He will. Period.
Edit:
Paul also said,
23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24 He who calls you is faithful, who also will do it.--1 Thes. 5:23-24
GOD is faithful to bring us to completion.
The primary reason the Word came and became flesh
was to FREE human beings from their bondage to sin.
BACs have been given 3 critical blessings to make this possible:
1) the precious indwelling Holy Spirit
2) a new nature (the new creation)
3) the word of God
This means BACs are now able to overcome sin.
This is what the epistles teach us.
Jesus does also:
"To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me
on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down
with My Father on His throne." (Rev 3:21)
Jesus overcame sin, the world, and the devil.
Are you an overcomer?
Great post!
But do not stop there!
How are we overcomers?
1 John 5:5
Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God...
Yes, I'm an overcomer because I believe that the Lord Jesus Christ is the Son of God!
"Proof: You were only forgiven of your past sins!"
Luke 23
34But Jesus was saying, “Father, forgive them; for they do not know what they are doing.”
Romans 5
6For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. 7For one will hardly die for a righteous man; though perhaps for the good man someone would dare even to die. 8But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Brother if you are trying to make a case against Once Saved Always Saved, I think its best to take a step away from trying to protect us from God. The mission should be let God protect us from us.
1 timothy 1
5But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.
God will forgive you for things before you do them. God could also hold you accountable for something you perceive having nothing to do with. God is not motivated by some legalistic mechanic, or price to be paid.to earn some grand reward.
Some folks would call loving God and loving neighbor a chore. Jesus calls that the treasure itself.
Immature, learning, Selfish eyes can't see that big picture yet.
Most people's eyes are on the fear of the consequence and the reward of the things they do. But from a Loving Father's perspective he sees the actual enslavement, the fear of control, the ignorance and the fear of false joy sin promises.
For some people the game stops when they lose someone they care for, then you only want whats best for them and where you fall in the whole thing matters less and less. When losing the one you love in you arms you think you going to care if its raining or not, or if you got four flat tires or lost your job? we got to veer off from a selfish perspective. God is looking at a bigger picture.
Sorry, but John is only talking about overcoming
"the world" of non-believers!
BACs sure are "over" them in that which is important.
How about giving Jesus the last word?
BACs must overcome as Jesus overcame!
Otherwise, they're NOT fellow-heirs with Christ.
Brother, humble yourself to the plain teachings of God's Word and do not let traditions and feelings blur your understanding. God will not allow one of His children (BAC) to go to Hell. His salvation is complete when the Children of God are Glorified. This is what is promised to those who believe on the Son as their Lord and Savior. This is what CHRIST purchased with His Blood.
Brother, humble yourself ...
and comment on Jesus' requirements in Rev. 3:21
What is there to comment on?
The Believer has already overcame IN CHRIST.
Read Romans 8.
So unless the Christian reaches a sinless perfection state as jesus had, not really saved?
Not necessary to be perfect.
Repentance overcomes sin.
Believing overcomes the world of non-believers.
Exercising authority over Satan overcomes him.
Then, is it necessary to sit with Jesus in heaven?
(Rev 3:21 again)
I thought almost everyone was standing!
Only a few have thrones to sit on.
So, maybe I've disqualified myself with Rev 3:21.
We aree saved by garce alone thru faith alone, correct?
Samuels,
I will be bluntly honest,
You have some real points in your OP, you may even be right. This debate about whether past, present, and future sins are all forgiven at salvation is a real debate worthy of attention. It seems to be an old debate dating back hundreds of years as far as I know.
That said, I believe you are missing the mark, sinning, because you are being condescending and argumentative with people that you, likely, regard as fellow saints. I quote the following bible verses:
1 Corinthians 8
1Now about food sacrificed to idols: We know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up.2The one who thinks he knows something does not yet know as he ought to know. 3But the one who loves God is known by God.
The rest of chapter 8 exposits the context of this teaching to the Corinthians, I suggest reading it.
1 Corinthians 8 BSB
I believe you have a contribution to bring, that you mean well, and that this is a worthy subject to discuss. You may know something others don't. I just ask you to be considerate and loving of those disagreeing with you.
As for the matter at hand, I will address it.
I believe something lost in this discussion, that pastor Bob pointed out early, is that the command to confess should be obeyed. I will say that those walking rightly will bear fruit in keeping with repentance by obeying the Word and, thus, they will confess their sins.
Obedience to God's commands is a mark of a believer.
Matthew 7
21Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness.’
Thus, to the person who knows the holy standard and obeys it, the importance is in the command to confess. That is what matters because an obedient saint will act on it. It is a command of God after all.
Thus, I posit that the obeying of the command matters far more than the theological debate on whether future sins are forgiven. To a saint the matter is somewhat unimportant, since our lives are to be marked by obedience anyway, and thus if we know the command to confess our sins, we will obey it.
Only one group of people, the disobedient, will worry excessively about this, as far as I know.
To those not confessing their sins and learning to act rightly I would say: Stop playing chicken with the sureness of your salvation by stubbornly doing the wrong thing. Repent and go do the thing you know you ought to do, knowing Jesus intercedes for you right now.
Of course, I don't understand if they have circumcised hearts and the indwelling Holy Spirit. I don't see the heart clearly. I can at least fall back on teachings to correct, rebuke, and warn those in disobedience, though.
I will be bluntly honest,
You have some real points in your OP, you may even be right. This debate about whether past, present, and future sins are all forgiven at salvation is a real debate worthy of attention. It seems to be an old debate dating back hundreds of years as far as I know.
That said, I believe you are missing the mark, sinning, because you are being condescending and argumentative with people that you, likely, regard as fellow saints. I quote the following bible verses:
1 Corinthians 8
1Now about food sacrificed to idols: We know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up.2The one who thinks he knows something does not yet know as he ought to know. 3But the one who loves God is known by God.
The rest of chapter 8 exposits the context of this teaching to the Corinthians, I suggest reading it.
1 Corinthians 8 BSB
I believe you have a contribution to bring, that you mean well, and that this is a worthy subject to discuss. You may know something others don't. I just ask you to be considerate and loving of those disagreeing with you.
As for the matter at hand, I will address it.
I believe something lost in this discussion, that pastor Bob pointed out early, is that the command to confess should be obeyed. I will say that those walking rightly will bear fruit in keeping with repentance by obeying the Word and, thus, they will confess their sins.
Obedience to God's commands is a mark of a believer.
Matthew 7
21Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness.’
Thus, to the person who knows the holy standard and obeys it, the importance is in the command to confess. That is what matters because an obedient saint will act on it. It is a command of God after all.
Thus, I posit that the obeying of the command matters far more than the theological debate on whether future sins are forgiven. To a saint the matter is somewhat unimportant, since our lives are to be marked by obedience anyway, and thus if we know the command to confess our sins, we will obey it.
Only one group of people, the disobedient, will worry excessively about this, as far as I know.
To those not confessing their sins and learning to act rightly I would say: Stop playing chicken with the sureness of your salvation by stubbornly doing the wrong thing. Repent and go do the thing you know you ought to do, knowing Jesus intercedes for you right now.
Of course, I don't understand if they have circumcised hearts and the indwelling Holy Spirit. I don't see the heart clearly. I can at least fall back on teachings to correct, rebuke, and warn those in disobedience, though.
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Felipe Rios
Member
Last edited:
Dave G
Well-Known Member
Actually, I just came from 3 years of doing that on Youtube, and the man I addressed these very same verses with, didn't change his mind;
I don't have any inclination to repeat what was, in all honesty, not profitable to do then, so I will leave off now before things get too involved.
If you see salvation as being probationary and dependent upon your own efforts in this life, then that is your prerogative.
To me, there are whole institutions that teach this, and it always results in eternal life being a reward, not a gift.
May God bless you, sir.
From my experience, I do not believe it is possible for the Holy Spirit to confront and convict an individual of their sins without the sinner responding with "sincere repentence".
This verse always comes to mind when I hear Christians striving to earn their salvation and "help" Jesus Christ atone for their sins....
2Co 11:3
"But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ."
2Co 11:3
"But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ."
There is a process toward repentance , ultimately you are correct.