Proud Boys Charged with Sedition in Capitol Attack

[canadyjd]

Hitler repealed gun ownership in Germany, he made sure the population was good and defenceless, nice and legally.

I can accept dying meekly and passively, if it’s just me, but I don’t desire others to be helpless and defencelessly slaughtered.
It’s one thing to desire it for yourself, but willing defenceless suffering and death on others is evil. That’s what it is to take people’s means of self defence.

Take the lions teeth and claws then set it free in the wild, call that abomination God’s good work.

I have seen too much slaughter, and slaughter follows hard upon weak men who lack the love to take on responsibility.

Fathers and husbands need to be the protectors and providers God intends them to be, not outsource their responsibilities to government.

We are getting way off topic, I think. The question involves the hypothetical repeal of the 2nd A that is legally and constitutionally done. Should Christians comply with gun confiscation laws in that case?

I understand what Hitler and others did to disarm the people.I understand the desire to be able to protect your family, and have agreed on that point.

Slaughter also follows hard upon strong men with weapons. As Jesus said, those that live by the sword, die by the sword.

Christians are called to be different from the world. That is never easy and this may be the most difficult aspects of Christ’s teachings.

peace to you

 

[BasketFinch]

Romans 13:
1 Every [fn]person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authorityexcept [fn]from God, and those which exist are established by God. 2 Therefore [fn]whoeverresists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receivecondemnation upon themselves. 3 For rulers are not a cause of fear for [fn]good behavior, but for evil. Do you want to have no fear of authority? Do what is good and you will have praise from the same; 4 for it is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath on the one who practices evil. 5 Therefore it is necessary to be in subjection, not only because of wrath, but also for conscience’ sake. 6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for rulers are servants of God, devoting themselves to this very thing. 7 Render to all what is due them: tax to whom tax is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honor to whom honor.

Why did Shadrach, Meshach and Abed-nego not obey God and Nebuchadnezzar?

The Apostles before the Sanhedrin

24When the captain of the temple guard and the chief priests heard this account, they were perplexed as to what was happening.c 25Then someone came in and announced, “Look, the men you put in jail are standing in the temple courts teaching the people!”26At that point, the captain went with the officers and brought the apostles—but not by force, for fear the people would stone them. 27They brought them in and made them stand before the Sanhedrin, where the high priest interrogated them. 28“We gave you strict orders not to teach in this name,” he said. “Yet you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching and are determined to make us responsible for this man’s blood.”29But Peter and the other apostles replied, “We must obey God rather than men. 30The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom you had killed by hanging Him on a tree. 31God exalted Him to His right hand as Prince and Savior, in order to grant repentance and forgiveness of sins to Israel. 32We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey Him.”

 

[BasketFinch]

We are getting way off topic, I think. The question involves the hypothetical repeal of the 2nd A that is legally and constitutionally done. Should Christians comply with gun confiscation laws in that case?

I understand what Hitler and others did to disarm the people.I understand the desire to be able to protect your family, and have agreed on that point.

Slaughter also follows hard upon strong men with weapons. As Jesus said, those that live by the sword, die by the sword.

Christians are called to be different from the world. That is never easy and this may be the most difficult aspects of Christ’s teachings.

peace to you

Not off topic.

Curious.
Speaking of WW2.
It was the law not to harbor Jews per Hitler's Final Solution program.

Had you known someone was harboring Jews, would you have obeyed the law?

 

[canadyjd]

Not off topic.

Curious.
Speaking of WW2.
It was the law not to harbor Jews per Hitler's Final Solution program.

Had you known someone was harboring Jews, would you have obeyed the law?

Way off topic

No, I would not turn someone over to Nazi’s to be slaughtered.

As long as we are at it, Would you endanger the life of your family by not complying with the Nazi’s knowing they would kill your wife and children if you failed to turn over Jews?

If the Nazi’s were coming to take you away, would you endanger the lives of your family by getting into a gun battle with them in your house?

peace to you

 

[BasketFinch]

Way off topic

No, I would not turn someone over to Nazi’s to be slaughtered.

As long as we are at it, Would you endanger the life of your family by not complying with the Nazi’s knowing they would kill your wife and children if you failed to turn over Jews?

If the Nazi’s were coming to take you away, would you endanger the lives of your family by getting into a gun battle with them in your house?

peace to you

Why is it when a topic that is on topic turns in a direction you don't like you claim it's off topic?

To answer your question. Would not have been an issue. Me and my family would have left within that window AH slotted when he forewarned the people to what was coming. And told them to get out while they could.

Not good enough an answer? How about this.
We would not have surrendered our guns.
We'd have secreted them away and have manufactured homemade weapons as well.

And when the Nazis came looking for Jews, prayerfully they'd not find where we hid them. Ever.
But should they have, I'd have done my level best, as would my family, to insure those few scouts on the hunt for Jews would never be seen again.

And if it cost me or us our lives in the process, OK. Because the satisfaction arrives in the assurance we know where we're headed.
The satisfaction after that arrives in knowing I/we took evil soulless demonic murderous scum with us.
Worth it!

 

[canadyjd]

…
Because the satisfaction arrives in the assurance we know where we're headed.
The satisfaction after that arrives in knowing I/we took evil soulless demonic murderous scum with us.
Worth it!

So, when you stand before God and give an account of why you disobeyed His Word, you will proclaim you are “satisfied” and it was “worth it’, because you, and your family, died “taking evil, soulless demonic murderous scum with you”?

OK, thanks for being honest.

I would hope to die proclaiming Jesus and Him crucified to the “scum”, and asking God to forgive them of their evil and free them from demonic influence, but hey, be convinced in your own mind.

peace to you

 

[BasketFinch]

So, when you stand before God and give an account of why you disobeyed His Word, you will proclaim you are “satisfied” and it was “worth it’, because you, and your family, died “taking evil, soulless demonic murderous scum with you”?

OK, thanks for being honest.

I would hope to die proclaiming Jesus and Him crucified to the “scum”, and asking God to forgive them of their evil and free them from demonic influence, but hey, be convinced in your own mind.

peace to you

Oh, but you'd not tell the Nazis who were hiding Jews.

You're not consistent in your argument. In fact you contradict yourself regularly.

I know the history of WW2 and Hitler's campaign.
The Nazi's targeted more than just Jews.
And the majority of them were Catholic! As was Hitler. And most of the Nazis and Gestapo.


Not one was excommunicated by the Pope during not after the Holocaust. And Pope Pius XII knew what was going on.

Hitler believed he was doing God's will.

So you see, the soulless evil demonic scum already knew about Christ crucified.

And it did nothing to stop them from arresting Christians, Roma, Homosexuals (who replaced animals in medical research labs after Hitler liberated all animals and replaced them as research subjects with gays . And the mentally ill. Because AH was a vegan and an animal lover.), other Catholics, and anyone Hitler and his cohorts wanted dead.

Jesus called in his day and parlance the pharisees names near equal to mine toward the Nazi's. And anyone who has read the OT know good and well God didn't send his Hebrew army to prosthletize to his enemies first. And before they slaughtered his enemies utterly under his orders.

So, when I'd stand before God after destroying those who were enemies of his chosen people, I'd know that this Christian was indeed acting Christ like.
The only difference being the timeframe in destroying the enemies of God and his chosen people.

Know why Hitler was able to kill all those people? Because he disarmed them first.

 

[canadyjd]

Oh, but you'd not tell the Nazis who were hiding Jews.

You're not consistent in your argument. In fact you contradict yourself regularly.

I know the history of WW2 and Hitler's campaign.
The Nazi's targeted more than just Jews.
And the majority of them were Catholic! As was Hitler. And most of the Nazis and Gestapo.


Not one was excommunicated by the Pope during not after the Holocaust. And Pope Pius XII knew what was going on.

Hitler believed he was doing God's will.

So you see, the soulless evil demonic scum already knew about Christ crucified.

And it did nothing to stop them from arresting Christians, Roma, Homosexuals (who replaced animals in medical research labs after Hitler liberated all animals and replaced them as research subjects with gays . And the mentally ill. Because AH was a vegan and an animal lover.), other Catholics, and anyone Hitler and his cohorts wanted dead.

Jesus called in his day and parlance the pharisees names near equal to mine toward the Nazi's. And anyone who has read the OT know good and well God didn't send his Hebrew army to prosthletize to his enemies first. And before they slaughtered his enemies utterly under his orders.

So, when I'd stand before God after destroying those who were enemies of his chosen people, I'd know that this Christian was indeed acting Christ like.
The only difference being the timeframe in destroying the enemies of God and his chosen people.

Know why Hitler was able to kill all those people? Because he disarmed them first.

Good luck with that argument before God.

And thanks for the history lesson, though I thought AH was Lutheran, but the rest I knew already.

Thanks for the conversation. I’m sure we’ve both pretty much made our minds known by now.

peace to you

 

[Squire Robertsson]

And thanks for the history lesson, though I thought AH was Lutheran, but the rest I knew already.

Nope, as an Austrian, he was RCC.

 

[canadyjd]

Nope, as an Austrian, he was RCC.

Quick search: AH raised as Catholic, claimed he was some sort of Protestant in a speech, but privately hated all religion and was an atheist.

peace to you

 

[BasketFinch]

Good luck with that argument before God.

Good luck with yours.

And thanks for the history lesson, though I thought AH was Lutheran, but the rest I knew already.

Thanks for the conversation. I’m sure we’ve both pretty much made our minds known by now.

peace to you

Yes. You'll obey evils authority claiming it's God's will. Or not.

And I won't. Knowing God punishes evil and we're to have nothing to do with evil people. Much less obey them when they violate on a mass scale God's command, Thou shalt not murder.

 

[canadyjd]

Good luck with yours.
…..God punishes evil and we're to have nothing to do with evil people. ….

How do you witness Jesus Christ and His gospel to people and “have nothing to do” with evil people at the same time?

BTW, I apologize for saying you were off topic. I was having a similar discussion in another thread about repeal of. 2nd A and forgot where I was posting.

peace to you

 

[canadyjd]

Double post

peace to you

 

[BasketFinch]

How do you witness Jesus Christ and His gospel to people and “have nothing to do” with evil people at the same time?

peace to you

Proverbs 15:29 “The LORD is far from the wicked, but he hears the prayer of the righteous.”


Psalm 97:10 “Hate evil, you who love the Lord, Who preserves the souls of His godly ones; He delivers them from the hand of the wicked.”

Proverbs 17:15 “He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the LORD.”

Proverbs 6:16-19 “There are six things the Lord hates, seven that are detestable to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked schemes, feet that are quick to rush into evil, a false witness who pours out lies and a person who stirs up conflict in the community.”

Edit responding to your added edit on the above quote.
Thank you. I appreciate your letting me know the why behind you're saying earlier that I was off topic.

 

[canadyjd]

Proverbs 15:29 “The LORD is far from the wicked, but he hears the prayer of the righteous.”


Psalm 97:10 “Hate evil, you who love the Lord, Who preserves the souls of His godly ones; He delivers them from the hand of the wicked.”

Proverbs 17:15 “He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the LORD.”

Proverbs 6:16-19 “There are six things the Lord hates, seven that are detestable to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked schemes, feet that are quick to rush into evil, a false witness who pours out lies and a person who stirs up conflict in the community.”

Quoting psalms and proverbs doesn’t really answer the question of how can someone have “nothing to do with evil people” and witness Jesus Chris’s gospel at the same time?

Didn’t Jesus spend a lot of time with evil people?

peace to you

 

[BasketFinch]

Quoting psalms and proverbs doesn’t really answer the question of how can someone have “nothing to do with evil people” and witness Jesus Chris’s gospel at the same time?

Actually they do. Evil and sin are different things.
King David did a lot of Evil things. Yet, he was beloved of God.

Didn’t Jesus spend a lot of time with evil people?

peace to you

When you study the Bible you'll notice context is everything.

You seem to think all sinners are evil.
Given the inconsistency with regard to guns, God, government, obedience, in your prior posts I'm not going to delve with you into this new area of sin and evil.

Thank you for your understanding.

 

[atpollard]

BTW, now that you see Romans 13, do you agree it prohibits Christians from engaging in armed rebellion?

I am not convinced that rebellion is prohibited in all cases. I will agree that Romans 13 sets forth the general principle of “obey the law” rather than “practice anarchy”. However the other principle clearly stated is to render what is due … what is due to an oppressive tyrannical government? Would it be wrong for a German Christian to actively oppose the Nazi regime? Was the French Resistance of WW2 a contra-biblical activity?

Obviously extreme, but we may be approaching a time when unchained evil rules the world. How much obedience and how much resistance do Christians owe a fallen world?

While not me style, I would have to wonder what the judgement of God would be on a man that burned abortion clinics to the ground? Condemnation for lawlessness or praise for lives saved?

This is a “Sedition” topic. So on the subject of sedition, I think that a stronger case can be made for the “occupy Portland” (or whichever city armed people barricaded off the police and government offices) being an attempt to overthrow the government than the Jan 6 debacle that involved a crowd shoving and unarmed trespassing. The police fired the shots that day, not the protestors.


Who seriously attempts to overthrow the government but doesn’t even fire a shot? There were only a tiny handful of ‘bad actors’ that committed other crimes (and should be charged with crimes actually committed). The current charges being levied with a broad brush reek of political terrorism. Members of Congress have stated in public that all “Trump Supporters” should be rounded up and sent to re-education camps … this feels more like politicians making good on that threat than “Justice” for an attempted insurrection.

For every person imprisoned, there is an extended family that is learning to HATE the US Government. Tell me that isn’t “sowing the wind, to reap the whirlwind”. That is exactly how terrorists are made in the Gaza Strip.

What do you expect from a nation that can’t figure out that killing babies is wrong or whether there is a difference between “male” and “female”. Justice and Mercy and Healing are far more difficult concepts to grasp than “life/death” and “gender”. It is Romans 1 playing out right before our eyes.

 

[canadyjd]

…

Edit responding to your added edit on the above quote.
Thank you. I appreciate your letting me know the why behind you're saying earlier that I was off topic.

It’s all cool beans.

I try hard to recognize when I’m wrong and apologize as soon as I can. Keeps me humble…. Mostly.

peace to you

 

[canadyjd]

I am not convinced that rebellion is prohibited in all cases. I will agree that Romans 13 sets forth the general principle of “obey the law” rather than “practice anarchy”. However the other principle clearly stated is to render what is due … what is due to an oppressive tyrannical government? Would it be wrong for a German Christian to actively oppose the Nazi regime? Was the French Resistance of WW2 a contra-biblical activity?

Obviously extreme, but we may be approaching a time when unchained evil rules the world. How much obedience and how much resistance do Christians owe a fallen world?

While not me style, I would have to wonder what the judgement of God would be on a man that burned abortion clinics to the ground? Condemnation for lawlessness or praise for lives saved?

This is a “Sedition” topic. So on the subject of sedition, I think that a stronger case can be made for the “occupy Portland” (or whichever city armed people barricaded off the police and government offices) being an attempt to overthrow the government than the Jan 6 debacle that involved a crowd shoving and unarmed trespassing. The police fired the shots that day, not the protestors.


Who seriously attempts to overthrow the government but doesn’t even fire a shot? There were only a tiny handful of ‘bad actors’ that committed other crimes (and should be charged with crimes actually committed). The current charges being levied with a broad brush reek of political terrorism. Members of Congress have stated in public that all “Trump Supporters” should be rounded up and sent to re-education camps … this feels more like politicians making good on that threat than “Justice” for an attempted insurrection.

For every person imprisoned, there is an extended family that is learning to HATE the US Government. Tell me that isn’t “sowing the wind, to reap the whirlwind”. That is exactly how terrorists are made in the Gaza Strip.

What do you expect from a nation that can’t figure out that killing babies is wrong or whether there is a difference between “male” and “female”. Justice and Mercy and Healing are far more difficult concepts to grasp than “life/death” and “gender”. It is Romans 1 playing out right before our eyes.

These are good questions: tough questions. We know Christians are to obey God rather than man when a conflict of obedience arises.

Based on scripture, I don’t see justification for Christian’s to engage in violence, especially against the government.

I know some see this as a contradiction, but in the case of protecting my family, I would do everything in my power, even using lethal force if i thought it was necessary.. I just know that’s where I am in that.

Bottom line, Christians cannot expect fairness or justice in this world because the world hates Jesus and they hate us for loving Jesus.

It is my sincere hope the folks arrested get their day in court and the truth will prevail, whatever it is.

peace to you

 

[Cathode]

Promising armed violence should the 2nd A be legally repealed and the governments pass laws to confiscate guns is armed rebellion and goes against God’s Word.

peace to you

They would also have to repeal property rights as well. It’s called Theft.

No, it’s an immoral and illegitimate law that makes a population defenceless, it’s evil.
People should never comply with such a law, because we know now what happens when people a made defenceless.

If you comply with evil you are responsible for every drop of blood an evil spills.