Sunday worship is not "the mark of the beast" but the mark of the Christian.
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Prove That Sunday Is the Christian Sabbath
- Thread starter TheThirdAngel144
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Sunday worship is not "the mark of the beast" but the mark of the Christian.
I know that - you know that - I wold like to know if Bob Ryan knows that!
TheThirdAngel144
Member
First off, I am really sorry for the delay everyone. Please forgive me.
So I have a couple questions. Why did you say you worship on Sunday, instead of saying you worship everyday? And why do you think Jesus only repeated (maybe only verbatim) 8 1/2 of the 10 Commandments?
TheThirdAngel144
Member
So, I do think it would be wrong of me to find no value in Christ rising from the dead, especially since I consider myself a Christian. I think that any rational human being who believes this would find this remarkable, especially considering the length of time that He was dead for. So, I definitely value the fact that Jesus rose from the dead, especially since it means so much to me as a Christian.
However, to the resurrection I do not attribute something that cannot be unsubstantiated in the Bible. Let me give you an example. Christ appeared first to Mary Magdelene when He rose from the grave, of all His disciples. It would be wrong of me to make it law, that women should have the Gospel preached to them first, because Christ rose on a Sunday, and first appeared to Mary. Likewise, I cannot see how Christ rising from the grave makes Sunday the Sabbath. It lacks all of the fundamental parts of what made the Sabbath, the Sabbath. It lacks literally every single one of them. Christ did not rest on Sunday, He arose from the grave on Sunday. He wouldn't even do that on the Biblical Sabbath, but waited until after the Sabbath to rise from the grave.
While it is the a blessing, and truly, beyond a blessing, that Christ rose on that Sunday, how does that make Sunday the Sabbath? The Bible literally declares that Jesus blessed the 7th day in Genesis. It does not say, by word of mouth of Jesus, or the Apostles, that Jesus blessed the 1st day of the week.
Also, you don't go to hell for worshiping Jesus on a Sunday. We are to worship God literally every single day of the week. However, we do go to hell for blatantly refusing to keep God's day of rest, which is written in His law. This is why Jesus died for our sins, because we broke that law, and is giving us a second chance. It would be dishonourable, and disrespectful to break the Sabbath, which He died for us breaking in the first place. It would be wrong for us to break any other point of the 10 Commandments. There is no case where man can consider one part of God's law valid, and another part invalid. If you can do this with the Sabbath, you can do this with any, for all of it is written as God's will, and in His infinite wisdom.
TheThirdAngel144
Member
I think we have to distinguish what the Bible is actually saying here. We ourselves are literally worthy of death for breaking the Sabbath, as that is a sin. The wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23). Christ came down here to die for our sins. He also did not sin. This then cannot be saying that Jesus actually violated the law, but rather that He broke the Sabbath in their own false opinions. The implication here, is that if Jesus actually broke the Sabbath, then God wrote a law that not even Jesus could keep Himself, and thus the law is completely unreasonable, and is not warranted. It also would make Jesus, the Son of God, worthy of death Himself.
TheThirdAngel144
Member
As I spoke with a previous poster, so I will issue the same sort of comment towards you. We worship God every single day, as that should be expected. The question is, what day do you keep the Sabbath? When you substitute another day of public rest and worship for God's Day which is written into His law, then we run into issues. Where did mankind gain the ability to change, or ignore God's Law?
TheThirdAngel144
Member
This point also confuses me. Where does that passage say Jesus is the "Christian Sabbath". If we aren't careful, we get too simplistic in our arguments, and declare because the Sabbath means rest, and Jesus gives us rest, therefore Jesus is our Sabbath. However, this ignores what the 7th Day Sabbath actually is. It is a bit like declaring because the divine nature means God's nature, and God allows Christians to become partakers of the divine nature, therefore Christians become actual deities. It's absurd and it ignores some fundamental Christian truths. A human being can never become a God. Ever. However, Jesus did become human, and that is perfectly allowable, and within the realm of reason. The word Sabbath does mean rest, but the 7th Day Sabbath is a Day of rest. Jesus is not a day, but rather, He is a divine Being, that gave us a special day each week where we may put aside all worldliness, and worldly pursuits, and come and spend time with Him, and glorify Him, and share our love for His Wonderful Majesty.
TheThirdAngel144
Member
So, this argument also doesn't hold water. How is it possible that every other commandment of the 10 Commandments is to be obeyed, but this one is only for the Jews? Especially considering that there are many Christians who will try to take the principles from the Sabbath, and apply them to Sunday. We obey every other commandment as it is written, and in spirit. Why do we arbitrarily set apart the commandment as it is written here, for a tradition which is founded upon not a choice of the Apostles, but upon actual compromises with heathenism? And what gives mankind the right to tamper with the very law that Jesus died for, because we broke it? Why did He have to die for us, if we could simply tamper with the law, and make it non-existent, or of no importance?
TheThirdAngel144
Member
What do these verses prove about the law enscribed in stone? As far as I can see, despite the fact that they had these days wherein they were to rest, they still had the weekly 7th day Sabbath to keep as well. And were these things not quoted from the ceremonial law, which we know is a law that is done away with. However, the 10 Commandments are not done away with. Every single point is kept, and even some are keeping the 4th commandment to the best of their knowledge. God winks at their ignorance. However, I'm not seeing your point, other than the Bible says "eighth day" here, and it is connected with rest which has to do with the ceremonial law, which was done away with at the cross.
TheThirdAngel144
Member
The Sabbath does indeed have an outward focus, as does the commandment "Thou shalt not steal", and "Thou shalt not commit adultery", but their outward focus is not railed against. Both their outward and inward focus must be according to the law, and so does the 7th day Sabbath.
As towards the international dateline, no clue. I would tend to think that it's where it's recognized internationally, but that could very well be wrong. This however is not a reason not to keep the Sabbath. Tough moral questions do not eliminate the neccesity of keeping God's law. Not knowing whether it is morally justifiable to shoot someone who is mowing down Christians for their faith does not mean we should do away with the commandment "Thou shalt not kill" altogether. As for reefing out a sail, I cannot see how that is positively a sin.
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TheThirdAngel144
Member
It would be dishonest to call every single Christian that keeps Sunday as the day of rest as Christians only one day a week. The same reasoning should apply to Sabbath keepers as well. We simply hold that they keep the Sabbath on the wrong day, and need to get back to God's scheduled day.
TheThirdAngel144
Member
You actually bring up a good point, which I think a lot of what people are missing. There are principles within the Sabbath that people actually find the need to preserve, and therefore institute Sunday as sort of a "mock-Sabbath". Here are three:
(1) Rest from strenous physical labor, and worldly pursuits. (Exodus 20:8-11)
(2) Spiritual Benefit - Getting to know God, coming into contact with your Creator. (Ezekiel 20:12 & 20, Exodus 31:13-17)
(3) Fellowship - With family and believers (for spiritual benefit as well) (Hebrews 10:25)
In American culture (and if we read about what just happened in Poland) business hours are regulated on a Sunday. There are many places that have been doing away with these blue laws, but there are many who would argue with you that is to the detriment of society. North Dakota last year refused to remove their blue laws which regulated business hours. There is seen in many eyes the value of having a day of rest, worship, and fellowship. However, while these things are to be valued, they are not to be legislated by laws of the state. Mankind has nothing to do with enforcing the first four laws of God's 10 Commandment upon people. We have already seen where that has lead us.
The rejection of God's Sabbath day is not a benefit to mankind, but an absolute curse. It is true, that many people become overworkers, many people cannot simply give a day to God, feeling the need to work 7 days each and every single week, and that vigorously. And that is not healthy. Overwork is damaging. Refusing to take time for rest is damaging. Refusing the great spiritual benefits of the Sabbath is also damaging. The Sabbath helps us to get to know God better, as we spend the entire day in spiritual benefits. Sermons, music, studies, fellowship - these things are needful to help us to learn more about our Creator, and truly keep His love, and wisdom before us. Without God's Sabbath, we forget God. This is actually the case. While Poland recently argued that rejecting Sunday is rejecting God, I argue that that asserment is wrong, but that rejecting God's Sabbath is rejecting God. And we know that those who whose to continue to reject God will face eternal damnation. The 7th Day is the day God picked out, and set apart for a holy use for us. And as Creator, He rests on the 7th Day. Do we come before Jesus, and try to spend time with Him during the time He specifically set apart for us, time that He took to stop creating, to spend it with the creatures He loves so much? Or do we ignore His loving offering for us, and reject Him and His day of rest and worship?
TheThirdAngel144
Member
Thank you for all your replies everyone! Unfortunately, not one person has taken all four points and laid them out, wherein (as seen in the Old Testament) specific verses are laid out that teach the 7th Day Bible Sabbath. There are people who believe that Sunday is the Christian Sabbath, but it seems no one on this board has come forward with such Biblical texts, as we can find explicitely in the Genesis and Exodus.
I do find it ironic however, that while the Sabbath is pulled down as a yoke of bondage, Sunday is uplifted as a good day for the same principle as found in the 7th Day Sabbath. This would then suggest that the Sabbath was placed in the commandment for very good moral reason, and not simply for a ceremonial one, as those very same principles are found running through those who suggest that Sunday ought to be kept as a day of rest, or promote, in some way, Sunday as a day of rest and worship.
I do find it ironic however, that while the Sabbath is pulled down as a yoke of bondage, Sunday is uplifted as a good day for the same principle as found in the 7th Day Sabbath. This would then suggest that the Sabbath was placed in the commandment for very good moral reason, and not simply for a ceremonial one, as those very same principles are found running through those who suggest that Sunday ought to be kept as a day of rest, or promote, in some way, Sunday as a day of rest and worship.
Once we enter His rest we cease from ours - therefore the christian sabbath rest is eternal because Jesus Christ is eternal God made flesh.
HankD
How does it compare to chopping firewood?-- which resulted in a man being stoned because he did it on the sabbath.
Thank you! At least you are not afraid to say it. We have another SDA here which dodges the question every time. not wanting to say what SDA beliefs teach their members. This leaves quite a large number of Christians heading to hell. Sounds strange doesn't it? Hundreds of millions of Jesus loving Christians going to hell for refusing to keep God's Sabbath.
Well in that case, billions upon billions of Christians from the last 2000 plus years who have worshipped on Sunday are now facing eternal damnation. Do you realize how moronic your assessment is? Heaven is not just occupied by SDA adherents.
On the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised [Leviticus 12:3].
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For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love [Galatians 5:6].
Likewise:
Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a sabbath of the Lord your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you [Exodus 20:8-10].
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Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day— things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ [Colossians 2:16-17].
Yepper, and everyone on this board who does not keep the Sabbath is damned, forget about anything Jesus has done on the cross, it's up to YOU to keep God's commandments and save yourself.
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