Proverbs 31:4-7. Drinking not for kings?

[righteousdude2]

As I listened to my pastor speak on Mother's Day, based on scripture from Proverbs 31, it struck me that he spent a good portion of his message on the things we needed to be trained up in, by our mothers. One of those "don'ts" was incased in three verses .... three verses about the virtue of not drinking.

That is all I will say about drinking alcohol. So after reading the verses he discussed, I'd like to know how you view drinking and your witness?

(Drinking) " .... is not for kings, O Lemuel,
it is not for kings to drink wine,
or for rulers to take strong drink,
5 lest they drink and forget what has been decreed
and pervert the rights of all the afflicted.
6 Give strong drink to the one who is perishing,
and wine to those in bitter distress;
7 let them drink and forget their poverty
and remember their misery no more." (ESV)

From the MSG Bible:

"“Leaders can’t afford to make fools of themselves,
gulping wine and swilling beer,
Lest, hung over, they don’t know right from wrong,
and the people who depend on them are hurt.
Use wine and beer only as sedatives,
to kill the pain and dull the ache
Of the terminally ill,
for whom life is a living death."

Or, the KJV:

"4 It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink:
5 Lest they drink, and forget the law, and pervert the judgment of any of the afflicted.
6 Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.
7 Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more."

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

As I listened to my pastor speak on Mother's Day, based on scripture from Proverbs 31, it struck me that he spent a good portion of his message on the things we needed to be trained up in, by our mothers. One of those "don'ts" was incased in three verses .... three verses about the virtue of not drinking.

That is all I will say about drinking alcohol. So after reading the verses he discussed, I'd like to know how you view drinking and your witness?

(Drinking) " .... is not for kings, O Lemuel,
it is not for kings to drink wine,
or for rulers to take strong drink,
5 lest they drink and forget what has been decreed
and pervert the rights of all the afflicted.
6 Give strong drink to the one who is perishing,
and wine to those in bitter distress;
7 let them drink and forget their poverty
and remember their misery no more." (ESV)

From the MSG Bible:

"“Leaders can’t afford to make fools of themselves,
gulping wine and swilling beer,
Lest, hung over, they don’t know right from wrong,
and the people who depend on them are hurt.
Use wine and beer only as sedatives,
to kill the pain and dull the ache
Of the terminally ill,
for whom life is a living death."

Or, the KJV:

"4 It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink:
5 Lest they drink, and forget the law, and pervert the judgment of any of the afflicted.
6 Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.
7 Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more."

Thank heavens there aren't many king

 

[kyredneck]

2 The bishop therefore must be without reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, orderly, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
3 no brawler, no striker; but gentle, not contentious, no lover of money;
4 one that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
5 (but if a man knoweth not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
6 not a novice, lest being puffed up he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
7 Moreover he must have good testimony from them that are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
8 Deacons in like manner must be grave, not double-tongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;
9 holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience. 1 Tim 3

I believe moderation is key here.

21 It is good not to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor to do anything whereby thy brother stumbleth.
22 The faith which thou hast, have thou to thyself before God. Happy is he that judgeth not himself in that which he approveth. Ro 14

In one imbibes with a clear conscience, there's no need to flaunt your faith that may offend others. Keep it to yourself before God.

 

[Darrell C]

While I can't speak for how mothers train children, I know as an uncle I trained my nieces and nephew about the dangers of alcohol and drugs. When I was growing up those who used drugs were painted in the guy in a trench-coat, slinking through the alley caricature, which turned out not to be true. Which had an effect some think teaching kids Santa Claus is real then they find out he's not may have the same result concerning the Lord. They were normal people for the most part, not overtly evil in appearance, et cetera. Having been a drug addict and alcoholic, my goal was to train them...you just don't need that garbage.

The primary issue with both drugs and alcohol is the relinquishing of self control which can have disastrous results, and often does. I believe people open themselves up for demonic activity when they relinquish control of their mind, and this is an ancient practice for communing with demons, which were thought to be gods.

It's hard enough sometimes to maintain self control in normal day to day affairs. Introduce mind altering products and whatever happens, one can't say they didn't bring it on themselves.


God bless.

 

[annsni]

I think the Message actually nailed the spirit of the verse here. Can you imagine going to the president in time of great need and having him drunk and unable to make decisions? That would not be a good thing. But I'm sure he has a glass of wine at state dinners and things. We do not drink for ministry's sake (our senior pastor has asked his staff to not drink) but if we could, we would be VERY careful with it. I do love a glass of wine or a mixed drink but it's not worth hurting others if we were to imbibe too much.

 

[kyredneck]

Growing up alcohol was never made to be taboo to us; what was taboo was neglecting to perform your duties. Dad drank moderately (90 now and still imbibes) all my life and I've never seen him inebriated. I'm full aware of the dangers of alcohol abuse and there are those that cannot partake and maintain responsibility. These shouldn't be tempted by those that can handle it. Thus, as annsni said, be VERY careful with it. As Paul said, "The faith which thou hast, have thou to thyself before God".

 

[righteousdude2]

More on Drinking and your WITNESS!

http://www.charismanews.com/opinion/49585-should-christians-throw-back-beers-and-sip-wine

 

[Marooncat79]

It was so that the King would rule in righteousness and with justice.


The Bible does not prohibit the consumption of alcohol but does prohibit drunkedness

Deuteronomy 14:26

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Growing up alcohol was never made to be taboo to us; what was taboo was neglecting to perform your duties. Dad drank moderately (90 now and still imbibes) all my life and I've never seen him inebriated. I'm full aware of the dangers of alcohol abuse and there are those that cannot partake and maintain responsibility. These shouldn't be tempted by those that can handle it. Thus, as annsni said, be VERY careful with it. As Paul said, "The faith which thou hast, have thou to thyself before God".

I'LL DRINK TO THAT!:thumbs:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

If someone cant handle there liqueur, let them own up to it and take the proper steps to deal with their problem. I'm a diabetic...so if someone eats cake & offers me a piece....is there any difference? My answer is no there isn't. Its my responsibility to NOT EAT that which will eventually kill me. So whats the difference? The alcoholic knows they have weakness & they still drink.....HEY, don't drink.....substitute the stuff for a diet coke ....and then go to an AA meeting where they have tried & true procedures for helping you stop your "destructive behavior"....but don't cry to me that because I have an Amstel Light after workin 15 hours that I am making you want for it. [snipped] a drunk, stay off the sauce & grab a Poland Spring & go make a meeting, there is one around the corner. I'm sick & tired of everyone coddling these drunks. Let them grow [snipped] up & face their problem head on & be responsible for their actions. And if they want to mess up their lives, that's their CHOICE......I didn't put a gun to their heads & make them drink......ITS THEIR CHOICE, albeit a bad one!

 

[Dr. Bob]

We use alcohol in medicine. It takes VERY LITTLE to impair judgment and reaction (church member who was police officer said for most their is a discernible impairment after just 1-2 drinks - maybe not "drunk", but certainly affected).

Other than meds, I opt to follow biblical warning about the impact of alcohol . . and my role as elder is more important than a king

 

[righteousdude2]

We use alcohol in medicine. It takes VERY LITTLE to impair judgment and reaction (church member who was police officer said for most their is a discernible impairment after just 1-2 drinks - maybe not "drunk", but certainly affected).

Other than meds, I opt to follow biblical warning about the impact of alcohol . . and my role as elder is more important than a king

I have to give that response a huge AMEN! You are so right. And we are not kings, just the children of the King! :thumbs:

 

[Darrell C]

If someone cant handle there liqueur, let them own up to it and take the proper steps to deal with their problem. I'm a diabetic...so if someone eats cake & offers me a piece....is there any difference? My answer is no there isn't. Its my responsibility to NOT EAT that which will eventually kill me. So whats the difference? The alcoholic knows they have weakness & they still drink.....HEY, don't drink.....substitute the stuff for a diet coke ....and then go to an AA meeting where they have tried & true procedures for helping you stop your "destructive behavior"....but don't cry to me that because I have an Amstel Light after workin 15 hours that I am making you want for it. [snipped] a drunk, stay off the sauce & grab a Poland Spring & go make a meeting, there is one around the corner. I'm sick & tired of everyone coddling these drunks. Let them grow [snipped] up & face their problem head on & be responsible for their actions. And if they want to mess up their lives, that's their CHOICE......I didn't put a gun to their heads & make them drink......ITS THEIR CHOICE, albeit a bad one!

Spoken like someone who doesn't know the first thing about addiction.

Thank you Nancy Reagan, but the fact is that addicts cannot always simply just go to a meeting.

You think they...want to mess up their lives?

And you are encouraging them to have a drink and then go to a meeting?

The fact is that addiction, whether drugs or alcohol, is a hell in it's own right. Many who suffer with addiction would like nothing more than to be able to function in life without having to have a drink, or the drug of choice.

I know, I was there...full tilt.

The only thing that eradicated this issue from my life was being saved.

Personally I think it is better to avoid any mind altering substance, and while I agree that we do have alcohol in certain medicines, like Nyquil, people do not usually drink Nyquil to catch a buzz, alter their mind, or escape reality.

And not often we see people get stupid while taking such medicines.

Any time one relinquishes self control, no matter what extent that takes, I see it as in direct opposition to what we should have as a goal as Christians. Existing in a fallen world is hard enough without intentionally failing to maintain self control.

What excuse would we give for imbibing? To relax? Read the Word of God instead. To battle stress? How is relaxing control of our minds going to do that?

Because it tastes good?

Right.

Who here took a drink of alcohol, and then said, "Boy, that sure is tasty...can I have another?"

There are tastier products out there that taste better...try some fresh juiced carrots. Rocket fuel for the cells, and it won't make one say stupid stuff.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

We use alcohol in medicine. It takes VERY LITTLE to impair judgment and reaction (church member who was police officer said for most their is a discernible impairment after just 1-2 drinks - maybe not "drunk", but certainly affected).

Other than meds, I opt to follow biblical warning about the impact of alcohol . . and my role as elder is more important than a king

The first statement seems to defend the use of alcohol, the rest seems to warn against it. Could you clarify what point you are making by saying...

We use alcohol in medicine.

And are their meds that impact judgment that you take? Or if one takes meds that does this, do you feel they would fall under the same rules that would apply to those who take substances for "recreation?"


God bless.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Spoken like someone who doesn't know the first thing about addiction.

Thank you Nancy Reagan, but the fact is that addicts cannot always simply just go to a meeting.

You think they...want to mess up their lives?

And you are encouraging them to have a drink and then go to a meeting?

The fact is that addiction, whether drugs or alcohol, is a hell in it's own right. Many who suffer with addiction would like nothing more than to be able to function in life without having to have a drink, or the drug of choice.

I know, I was there...full tilt.

The only thing that eradicated this issue from my life was being saved.

Personally I think it is better to avoid any mind altering substance, and while I agree that we do have alcohol in certain medicines, like Nyquil, people do not usually drink Nyquil to catch a buzz, alter their mind, or escape reality.

And not often we see people get stupid while taking such medicines.

Any time one relinquishes self control, no matter what extent that takes, I see it as in direct opposition to what we should have as a goal as Christians. Existing in a fallen world is hard enough without intentionally failing to maintain self control.

What excuse would we give for imbibing? To relax? Read the Word of God instead. To battle stress? How is relaxing control of our minds going to do that?

Because it tastes good?

Right.

Who here took a drink of alcohol, and then said, "Boy, that sure is tasty...can I have another?"

There are tastier products out there that taste better...try some fresh juiced carrots. Rocket fuel for the cells, and it won't make one say stupid stuff.


God bless.

Oh I know a ton about addictions...you have no idea ....But I'm not buying into the idea that they are not responsible for their stupid choices,...they are !
Oh and I enjoy the taste of good beer and wine...And I like a good smoky & smooth aged scotch. And I like the taste of brandy and gin & tonic.:tongue3:

 

[Darrell C]

Oh I know a ton about addictions...you have no idea ....But I'm not buying into the idea that they are not responsible for their stupid choices,...they are !
Oh and I enjoy the taste of good beer and wine...And I like a good smoky & smooth aged scotch. And I like the taste of brandy and gin & tonic.:tongue3:

I believe you.


God bless.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I believe you.


God bless.

...But most of my beverage consumption today is coffee and bottled water....:-

 

[Don]

My pastor's wife was shocked to hear we had bought a bottle of liquor. My wife told her that we were making our own vanilla extract. Of course, there was the "oh, really?" look; so since we were at her house anyway, my wife used the pastor's wife's own bottle of vanilla extract to show her that alcohol was a major ingredient.

If anyone's interested, a 16 ounce bottle of vanilla extract is around $8-$9; a liter bottle of cheap liquor and 3-5 vanilla sticks is less than $5.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

My pastor's wife was shocked to hear we had bought a bottle of liquor. My wife told her that we were making our own vanilla extract. Of course, there was the "oh, really?" look; so since we were at her house anyway, my wife used the pastor's wife's own bottle of vanilla extract to show her that alcohol was a major ingredient.

If anyone's interested, a 16 ounce bottle of vanilla extract is around $8-$9; a liter bottle of cheap liquor and 3-5 vanilla sticks is less than $5.

Why should she be shocked....ahh, on 2nd thought...forget it.

 

[Darrell C]

My pastor's wife was shocked to hear we had bought a bottle of liquor. My wife told her that we were making our own vanilla extract. Of course, there was the "oh, really?" look; so since we were at her house anyway, my wife used the pastor's wife's own bottle of vanilla extract to show her that alcohol was a major ingredient.

If anyone's interested, a 16 ounce bottle of vanilla extract is around $8-$9; a liter bottle of cheap liquor and 3-5 vanilla sticks is less than $5.

So what was the Pastor's wife's reaction when the context was clarified?

And was vanilla the only reason for purchasing the liquor?

Why should she be shocked....ahh, on 2nd thought...forget it.

Why forget it?

You act as though the purchase of a bottle of liquor by Christians is not something that would shock.

Tell me again just how good that stuff tastes...

Tell me again who buys it and drinks it because they love the taste...

When the intended use is clarified then we know whether the purchase falls into "Christian use."

Here is a verse my Father used to get drunk when my brother died:


Proverbs 31:6

King James Version (KJV)

6 Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.

Once again you show your disdain for the Body of Christ, this time...a Pastor's wife.

I can't fault her for being shocked.


God bless.