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Pub Night Fellowship

steaver

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Steve??? You think I don't deal with alcoholics......almost on a daily basis. My grandfather was a degenerate drunk, my dad had tendencies and my brother is an out and out alcoholic. Then there is my wife who is/was chronic, my SIL and MIL....all recovering (in stages). At one point it was so bad that I kicked my wife out and almost divorced. Its been a 25 yr roller coaster ride my friend. My son grew up going to Sunday afternoon AA meetings in support of my wife and the stories some told were blood chilling.

So why don't I just swear off alcohol .....well I have a rule, 'Don't sweep anything under the rug ' and if you got a problem then lets talk about it. NO SHENANAGANS ALLOWED. Thats a rule in my house....Daddy's rule. Ive learned over the year's Steve, that its best to confront the problem early on...that drinking is a symptom of some bigger problem that only festors. And you have probably learner that as much as you try to avoid it, brother it's always lurking...its that sin thing, right. God help you...you already got enough problems to deal with living in Pennsyltuckey. :laugh::laugh: (this way I can insult two States in one swoop) :godisgood:

Thanks for sharing this. I was beginning to think maybe there were some out there who did not have to deal with the death and destruction alcohol has caused in this world. My learned view is that it just isn't necessary for good fellowship, too much misery, so I encourage abstinence. My wife and I and friends have great times together without it, so I say what's the point of giving satan a tool to wield against us. :wavey:
 

FriendofSpurgeon

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Ya know, to me the term "Fellowship" is an over used term in our churches today. Im going to a church where they often serve food after the service & Ive gone to churches where they do a lunch service each week. I dont see how food is the social lubricant & personally, if I was stimulated by it, would it not be considered border line gluttony?

With that said, I have European friends who often take time to meet together in local pubs on scheduled times to converse & get together. Honestly I perfer that & while there are lots of those in the church dead said against it, the pub environment is a splendid way to have Christian fellowship.

Now I am not closing my eyes to the fact that liqueur being served could be a problem so I asked my dear wife (a recovering alcoholic) her thoughts on the matter. She sees pub night fellowship like I do however her cautionary statement that " some dont choose that path" meaning taking a drink while others are indulging, is the proper key to the whole balance issue. It is her contention that the pub environment is a favorable place for conversation, debate & socializing.....when properly managed. Again "Choice" is the key element here.....if a person knowingly cannot control themselves then stay away from that environment .....but do not let it obstruct others from a positive opportunity to socialize, have fellowship & discuss Christ.

Your thoughts?

Personally, I know of two churches (one Presbyterian and one Baptist) that have "pub" groups. One meets for lunch every Tuesday at a local pub for fellowship and Bible study. The other meets at a local pub after Wednesday evening service just to hang out and get to know each other.
 

FriendofSpurgeon

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Ya know, to me the term "Fellowship" is an over used term in our churches today. Im going to a church where they often serve food after the service & Ive gone to churches where they do a lunch service each week. I dont see how food is the social lubricant & personally, if I was stimulated by it, would it not be considered border line gluttony?

Your thoughts?

Growing up as a PK, I've had more than my share of casseroles, jello with fruit, etc. to last a lifetime. Normally, the same people bring the same dish and sit with the same group of friends that have know each other since 1970, etc. However, lately I've seen very interesting twists on this, including:

Food Trucks - A great way to try to different foods.
Catered Meals - Some have fees and others have been "underwritten" by someone or a company. But you don't have to bring anything.
Picnics - Outdoor eating is always much more casual and lends itself to more real conversations.
"Foodie" Sunday - A twist on the covered dish aproach.
KidZones - Where the litle ones can stay, eat and play so that the adults can truly fellowship, in concert with any of the above.
Casual/Sport Team Sunday - Again, in concert with any of the above -where it is OK to dress a little more casual.

In addition, the last time we had one of the above, the pastor specifically addressed meeting new people during lunch -- especially people who are different from you -- different age group, race, ethnicity, language, etc.
 

Walter

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My wife is also a recovering alcoholic, about 16 years now. I never thought she would ever slip back, but about 5 years ago she began stopping in again for just one and done. She did this without my knowledge until after about 9 months something wasn't adding up. She hid it well, but one progressed into drunkenness once again. Ended up with guys flirting with her and she got all confused and we almost divorced. I personally would never ask her to sit in a bar to even eat. But all situations are different. I am glad you are blessed with not having friends and family around you consumed by alcohol. Blessings.

I am a substance abuse counselor (now retired) and I will say it took her much longer to progress back into drunkenness than it would most alcoholic's. She DID hide it well. We have a saying in my profession: 'Once a pickle, never a cucumber again'. The problem I see with having this kind of venue for fellowship is that it may encourage people in recovery to feel the need to be in an atmosphere they normally would avoid. We have another saying: 'If you don't want to slip don't go where it is slippery.' Another problem is that if people in recovery turn down repeated request to 'come on out and fellowship with us' they may also, out of the necessity to be honest, 'out' themselves as a person in recovery. Personally, I have been in recovery for many years and don't mind if people know. In fact it is a big part of my testimony. God is the one that relieved the obsession to drink and I will always be grateful to Him for bringing me out of that pit.
 

Earth Wind and Fire

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I am a substance abuse counselor (now retired) and I will say it took her much longer to progress back into drunkenness than it would most alcoholic's. She DID hide it well. We have a saying in my profession: 'Once a pickle, never a cucumber again'. The problem I see with having this kind of venue for fellowship is that it may encourage people in recovery to feel the need to be in an atmosphere they normally would avoid. We have another saying: 'If you don't want to slip don't go where it is slippery.' Another problem is that if people in recovery turn down repeated request to 'come on out and fellowship with us' they may also, out of the necessity to be honest, 'out' themselves as a person in recovery. Personally, I have been in recovery for many years and don't mind if people know. In fact it is a big part of my testimony. God is the one that relieved the obsession to drink and I will always be grateful to Him for bringing me out of that pit.

My wife has no problem telling anyone that she is a recoveriing alcoholic ....and she will even give you her testimony. And with regards to going in taverns, bars, pubs etc., its no biggie for her....as she stated, drinking is a choice.
 

Walter

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My wife has no problem telling anyone that she is a recoveriing alcoholic ....and she will even give you her testimony. And with regards to going in taverns, bars, pubs etc., its no biggie for her....as she stated, drinking is a choice.

Honestly, in the recovery field I've watched more miracles over the years as a result of people turning their will & lives over to the care of the Lord. It is a tremendous testimony. I also have noticed that those of us who have some years of recovery not having a problem entering taverns, bars, etc or sharing with others what God has done for us and our addictions. In fact, a lot of 12th step work goes on that way. I just never recommend the former to someone in early recovery. Drinking (any drug for that matter) is, as your wife says, a choice.
 

Earth Wind and Fire

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Honestly, in the recovery field I've watched more miracles over the years as a result of people turning their will & lives over to the care of the Lord. It is a tremendous testimony. I also have noticed that those of us who have some years of recovery not having a problem entering taverns, bars, etc or sharing with others what God has done for us and our addictions. In fact, a lot of 12th step work goes on that way. I just never recommend the former to someone in early recovery. Drinking (any drug for that matter) is, as your wife says, a choice.

Now I would never advise anyone ....let me emphasize ANYONE to go out socializing with some of my Irish cousins. They purposely go out 'drinking' ....the aim is to get hammered. Now that's a glutton and ending the evening vomiting is never a good idea.....nor is having the DT 's.:eek:
 

Bro. James

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A social drink may be a choice; but drinking to be sociable is a step to addiction. Addicts are not choosing; they have a psychological and physiological disease which has destroyed a multitude of families.

Little good has ever come from a drink of whiskey. The social negatives far outweigh anything positive.

"Wine is a mocker; strong drink is raging" is still a valid admonition.

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Bro. James
 

Walter

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I agree that those in active addiction have a physiological and psychological dependency that makes their use and abuse of chemical substances more of a necessity than a choice. However, once an alcoholic (addict) has detoxed and has started into recovery any return to active addiction is a matter of choice. I choose each day not to drink. Each day I hit my knees in the morning and ask the Lord for the grace to make it another day sober. When I reached the 3rd step in 12 step recovery God relieved the obsession to drink. The steps are essential for most alcoholics and addicts to sustain recovery. I don't know very many who have sustained recovery by way of 'deliverance' ministries. Not saying it doesn't happen, but working a program of recovery is the way it works for most of us.

"Little good has ever come from a drink of whiskey. The social negatives far outweigh anything positive." Tend to agree!
 

Earth Wind and Fire

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A social drink may be a choice; but drinking to be sociable is a step to addiction. Addicts are not choosing; they have a psychological and physiological disease which has destroyed a multitude of families.

Little good has ever come from a drink of whiskey. The social negatives far outweigh anything positive.

"Wine is a mocker; strong drink is raging" is still a valid admonition.

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

Single malt Scotch ....nothing good you say. I beg to differ. I find it delicious and a great relaxer and a wonderful cold elixer. Again in moderation......if you cant control yourself,, stay away from it ....as for me, 2 fingers neat please.
 

Bro. James

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While I may seem a borderline T-totaler, I enjoy a bit of Mogen David in private--never public--it causes too many to stumble, making public drinking a sin. Further, one oz. of alcohol can make some legally DUI.

Having lived and worked with alcoholics for at least 50 years, I may have made some valid observations--most alcoholics are in denial.

Attend some AA meetings and subscribe to the MADD newsletter.

This is not about what is wrong with a thing but rather: What is right with it?

We have been having trouble with fermented spirits ever since Noah planted a vineyard. Apparently his Welch's caused him to go lala without a proper tunic--the world is still suffering. Noah needed a lot of grace too.

Biggest problem with this issue: Many Baptist church covenants forbid the sale or use of alcoholic beverage. This makes for a lot of hippocrites--those of us who sip a glass of wine in private.

"Whatsoever is not of faith-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------is sin."

Now what?

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Bro. James
 

Earth Wind and Fire

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Personally, I know of two churches (one Presbyterian and one Baptist) that have "pub" groups. One meets for lunch every Tuesday at a local pub for fellowship and Bible study. The other meets at a local pub after Wednesday evening service just to hang out and get to know each other.

Nothing wrong with either activities if the goal is Christian fellowship. Thanks for sharing.:thumbsup:
 

Earth Wind and Fire

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Site Supporter
While I may seem a borderline T-totaler, I enjoy a bit of Mogen David in private--never public--it causes too many to stumble, making public drinking a sin. Further, one oz. of alcohol can make some legally DUI.

Having lived and worked with alcoholics for at least 50 years, I may have made some valid observations--most alcoholics are in denial.

Attend some AA meetings and subscribe to the MADD newsletter.

This is not about what is wrong with a thing but rather: What is right with it?

We have been having trouble with fermented spirits ever since Noah planted a vineyard. Apparently his Welch's caused him to go lala without a proper tunic--the world is still suffering. Noah needed a lot of grace too.

Biggest problem with this issue: Many Baptist church covenants forbid the sale or use of alcoholic beverage. This makes for a lot of hippocrites--those of us who sip a glass of wine in private.

"Whatsoever is not of faith-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------is sin."

Now what?

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

Ive attended AA meetings for over 20 years. They only teach abstinence when drinking is out of control. And its extremely easy to tell the responsible drinker from the person with a problem....but yes, there are allot of denying going on. Thats why I stress not hiding it...bring it out in the open so its apparent and then be addressed.....and even confronted. Hopefully then there is hope for both discovery & recovery.

And now I am curious....out of all the wines in the world, why Mogen David???
 
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steaver

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Listen Steve...if you want to talk PM, please feel free. Ive been there and done that my brother.:thumbs:

Sorry for the absence, my computer goes haywire ever so often and locks up. I have to consistently force it to shut down and then restart it sometimes for days until it ramps up again. Today it finally gave in, lol.

Thanks for the invite brother, appreciate it. Things are well with us praise the Lord! I walk by faith and by Grace each day :thumbsup:

God speed!
 

Earth Wind and Fire

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Sorry for the absence, my computer goes haywire ever so often and locks up. I have to consistently force it to shut down and then restart it sometimes for days until it ramps up again. Today it finally gave in, lol.

Thanks for the invite brother, appreciate it. Things are well with us praise the Lord! I walk by faith and by Grace each day :thumbsup:

God speed!

Splendid....God bless!:thumbsup:
 

Iconoclast

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Earth, Wind & Fire

And let me just say that church doesn't do it for me regarding fellowship.
24 By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;

25 Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;

26 Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.

27 By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.

.....Ive tried many times but I am not comfortable making friends there

24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:

25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.


....its too pious, too rigid too stodgy & maybe it should be (more for worship, prayer & quite time with the lord).

14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:

When I go out for a meal & a brew with others, I can let my guard down just a bit,

What guard?16 And herein do I exercise myself, to have always a conscience void to offence toward God, and toward men.

enjoy some time away from it all, relax & even have some laughs.

you cannot enjoy the fellowship of believers discussing God and his word,without a few beers???
Cant see myself ever doing that in a church environment.
Does scripture suggest this?
I like the clanging of beer bottles & a nice Guinness with my meal. Then Im much more apt to be myself, chat & have conversation.

So .....Should i go to a topless bar,and instead of singles,put tracts in the girls g-string???


As I said...it is a choice you make. I personally like a beer now and again but the mrs's cant drink alcohol because of her addiction to it...still we both would prefer to have fellowship at nice corner pubs vs stuffy churches. Its a choice w/o judgment.


God had this complaint in Ezkiels day;
26 Her priests have violated my law, and have profaned mine holy things:

they have put no difference between the holy and profane,

neither have they shewed difference between the unclean and the clean,

and have hid their eyes from my sabbaths, and I am profaned among them.
 

JamesL

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I've had a problem with alcohol and gambling in the past. Gambling was primarily in pool halls, but later poker rooms also.

When I was in my 20s, my mom would harp on me to stay out of "Satan's house" (pool halls). In my 30s I almost lived in a pool hall, always looking for a game. Even though I was there primarily to gamble, I often had talks with people about Christ. I never looked at the gambling as a sin, figuring I was simply using my skills to earn a living, much like a wall street investor "gambles" the market to make his living.

I rarely play anymore, and especially not for money.

The church I attend now has a men's fellowship periodically on Friday nights, where we meet at the church to pray, address our responsibilities in the church from scriptural gleanings, and then out for an evening of pool.

The first time I was told about it, I laughed and told them about my mom's words to me. The pastor looked confused and asked me what's so bad about going to play pool. I told him about the gambling I've done, and he said he was totally oblivious to the degree of gambling that goes on in pool halls.

Not everyone sees the same venues in the same light. It sometimes depends on our own background.

As for a bar - even though I once had a problem with drinking, I am not a preacher of abstinence. Every adult is responsible for knowing himself and whether or not it's ok for him. There are plenty of people who look down on a certain establishment as being the "house of the devil"

If Satan's House is where sinners are, then every church would be Satan's House.

In the town I moved from, there's a believer who spent time in jail. For what I do not know. But he got a lot of tattoos while in jail, and became fond of them. He opened a tattoo shop in town, and shortly after felt that God was calling him to start a church in his shop. So that's what he did.

There are quite a few "crazy" looking people who like him and his church. They've got tattoos all over them, big holes in their ear lobes, and just look weird to many people. They wouldn't have a chance in the Southern Baptist church I was at. Too stuffy, too many Fringe Fundamentalists to be judged by, and the idea of a boring potluck dinner isn't appealing to them. The bottom line is that they feel accepted in that little tattoo shop, and they hear the word of God. They fellowship with people who they "get" and they're not in a hurry to get out the door after "service" is over.

Back to the drinking, I used to really like the taste of wine coolers. About a year ago, I was helping my brother-in-law paint their house one weekend. I was running a spray rig on trim and ceilings, and had worked about 14 hours on Saturday. I went into the garage about 1am to see if they had a soda in the fridge, but there was none. But, they had two wine coolers. I thought "Man, I sure am thirsty. I would prefer a soda, but that cold sine cooler sure would go down nicely right about now."

So I popped one open and took a sip. MAN, was that good. I forgot all about the alcohol content, and chugged it like soda. I went and got the other one and drank it the same way, because I was thirsty. I had no inclination to get drunk, but considering that I hadn't had a drink in several years, I got buzzed in a hurry. My sister came out and sat in a chair next to me, and I told her that I was buzzing form those drinks.

She said she couldn't believe I was drinking. I confessed that I was glad there were only two, because I just might have gone for a third, and maybe fourth. There was beer available in that garage I was in, but I don't like the taste. So I passed. And I haven't had a drink since that night.

I guess the bottom line for me is that the establishment is not what makes the drunk, or the gambler, or the tattoo enthusiast. And the establishment is not what makes one a Christian, either.

Those who are led by the Spirit will be led by the Spirit wherever beer is sold, or wherever pool is played. And those who are in the flesh will be in the flesh...even if they're in church
 

Earth Wind and Fire

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Site Supporter
I've had a problem with alcohol and gambling in the past. Gambling was primarily in pool halls, but later poker rooms also.

When I was in my 20s, my mom would harp on me to stay out of "Satan's house" (pool halls). In my 30s I almost lived in a pool hall, always looking for a game. Even though I was there primarily to gamble, I often had talks with people about Christ. I never looked at the gambling as a sin, figuring I was simply using my skills to earn a living, much like a wall street investor "gambles" the market to make his living.

I rarely play anymore, and especially not for money.

The church I attend now has a men's fellowship periodically on Friday nights, where we meet at the church to pray, address our responsibilities in the church from scriptural gleanings, and then out for an evening of pool.

The first time I was told about it, I laughed and told them about my mom's words to me. The pastor looked confused and asked me what's so bad about going to play pool. I told him about the gambling I've done, and he said he was totally oblivious to the degree of gambling that goes on in pool halls.

Not everyone sees the same venues in the same light. It sometimes depends on our own background.

As for a bar - even though I once had a problem with drinking, I am not a preacher of abstinence. Every adult is responsible for knowing himself and whether or not it's ok for him. There are plenty of people who look down on a certain establishment as being the "house of the devil"

If Satan's House is where sinners are, then every church would be Satan's House.

In the town I moved from, there's a believer who spent time in jail. For what I do not know. But he got a lot of tattoos while in jail, and became fond of them. He opened a tattoo shop in town, and shortly after felt that God was calling him to start a church in his shop. So that's what he did.

There are quite a few "crazy" looking people who like him and his church. They've got tattoos all over them, big holes in their ear lobes, and just look weird to many people. They wouldn't have a chance in the Southern Baptist church I was at. Too stuffy, too many Fringe Fundamentalists to be judged by, and the idea of a boring potluck dinner isn't appealing to them. The bottom line is that they feel accepted in that little tattoo shop, and they hear the word of God. They fellowship with people who they "get" and they're not in a hurry to get out the door after "service" is over.

Back to the drinking, I used to really like the taste of wine coolers. About a year ago, I was helping my brother-in-law paint their house one weekend. I was running a spray rig on trim and ceilings, and had worked about 14 hours on Saturday. I went into the garage about 1am to see if they had a soda in the fridge, but there was none. But, they had two wine coolers. I thought "Man, I sure am thirsty. I would prefer a soda, but that cold sine cooler sure would go down nicely right about now."

So I popped one open and took a sip. MAN, was that good. I forgot all about the alcohol content, and chugged it like soda. I went and got the other one and drank it the same way, because I was thirsty. I had no inclination to get drunk, but considering that I hadn't had a drink in several years, I got buzzed in a hurry. My sister came out and sat in a chair next to me, and I told her that I was buzzing form those drinks.

She said she couldn't believe I was drinking. I confessed that I was glad there were only two, because I just might have gone for a third, and maybe fourth. There was beer available in that garage I was in, but I don't like the taste. So I passed. And I haven't had a drink since that night.

I guess the bottom line for me is that the establishment is not what makes the drunk, or the gambler, or the tattoo enthusiast. And the establishment is not what makes one a Christian, either.

Those who are led by the Spirit will be led by the Spirit wherever beer is sold, or wherever pool is played. And those who are in the flesh will be in the flesh...even if they're in church

Exactly! And those places will always be there. Tell your sister to start packing the fridge with water. Personally I would have gone for the beer in the garage :love2:
 

Earth Wind and Fire

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Site Supporter
Earth, Wind & Fire


24 By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;

25 Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;

26 Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.

27 By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.



24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:

25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.




14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:



What guard?16 And herein do I exercise myself, to have always a conscience void to offence toward God, and toward men.



you cannot enjoy the fellowship of believers discussing God and his word,without a few beers???

Does scripture suggest this?


So .....Should i go to a topless bar,and instead of singles,put tracts in the girls g-string???





God had this complaint in Ezkiels day;
26 Her priests have violated my law, and have profaned mine holy things:

they have put no difference between the holy and profane,

neither have they shewed difference between the unclean and the clean,

and have hid their eyes from my sabbaths, and I am profaned among them.

Tracts into Gstrings?:laugh: I would like to see ya try! :laugh:

Let me ask you...how much should a pastor be paid a year? I mean in Jersey?
 
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