Question about a Catholic litany

[Alive in Christ]

"I only know that my relationship with Jesus Christ has only become stronger as a 'born again Catholic'.

If so, how can you justify the goddess worship of Mary?

Or the expectation of protection and/or miracles from "Saints" who have died?

Or the mindlessly droning prayer repitition (the rosary) that Christ admonished us not to do, and the glorification of Mary over Jesus that the rosary promotes?

By the way, please dont say I am misrepresenting anything. I was a Catholic for over 20 years before being ligitimetly born of God and quickly fleeing Catholicisms clutches.

 

[stevedee]

My father told me that the Current pope wants to get back to the Triniditine Mass. And He also said that the Novo Ordo has been re-translated to reflect the old Latin Liturgy better. Is this true?

Yes, it is true. If you go on the website for the (RC)Cathedral in Cape Town, SA, they post the new English translation of the Novus Ordo. It is MUCH better. That awful response to, 'The Lord be with you,' which is presently, 'And also with you' will be returning to the much more literal, 'And with your spirit.'

 

[stevedee]

Wow! I just finished reading a recent post on a conservative Anglican blogsite. Apparently the Vatican has announced there will be an announcement regarding the relationship with Anglicans tommarrow at 11:30 AM. I think that is about 5:00 AM PST if I'm not mistaken.

This could pave the way for lot of Episcopal and Traditional Anglican Churches to be received into full-communion with the Catholic Church. No way the pope will welcome in the liberal element with this re-unification. The Traditional Anglican Communion applied to be received into full-communion with Rome over two years ago. I think it may take place.

Well, whether they like it or not, Anglican Orders are not recognised by Rome.
That means that Anglican priests would enter Rome as laymen (I say layMEN because the 'ordination' of females would NEVER be recognised!), and after a period of study for maybe about a year, they would be Ordained to the Diaconate, and then as a Priest. The same schedule would befall Anglican Bishops; however, they would not be consecrated as a Roman Catholic Bishop.
As of this writing, there is no move to accept any Anglicans into Rome, be they traditionalist separatist groups, or from the Anglican Communion itself. The "ordination" of women is a big barrier---it simply will not be accepted.

 

[Johnv]

Those who are yoked with blasphemous organisations like the Catholic Church, Orthodox and ultra liberal protestant groups very much need to come to their senses and flee these groups.

Wow. My churches partners with a local catholic church, methodist church, and jewish temple to help run a local food bank. I guess we're hallbound

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Wow. My churches partners with a local catholic church, methodist church, and jewish temple to help run a local food bank. I guess we're hallbound

That's only if you have a hall pass. Otherwise you have to stay in class. :smilewinkgrin:

 

[Alive in Christ]

...and remember, no running in the halls.:thumbs:

 

[Johnv]

Doh!!!! Darned typing fingers!!

 

[Alive in Christ]

If I had a nickle for every typo I have made I'd be a veeeery rich man!


:tonofbricks:

 

[stevedee]

If so, how can you justify the goddess worship of Mary?

Or the expectation of protection and/or miracles from "Saints" who have died?

Or the mindlessly droning prayer repitition (the rosary) that Christ admonished us not to do, and the glorification of Mary over Jesus that the rosary promotes?

By the way, please dont say I am misrepresenting anything. I was a Catholic for over 20 years before being ligitimetly born of God and quickly fleeing Catholicisms clutches.

Yeah. I hear you. One side of my family was Episcopal(before the "ordination" of women and the 1979 "Book of Common Prayer") and the other side RC. I converted to Orthodoxy as a kid because of the changes in RCC. I was Ordained an Orthodox Deacon and thankfully left Orthodoxy( the most un-christian bunch of people I have ever been around. SO ethnocentric!) and was Ordained a Priest, Catholic, Traditional Rite. I became a Christian along the way, and all the Catholic folderol dropped away in a progressive manner. I believe you do not have to be Roman to be CATHOLIC. Catholic is a good word. The RCC DOES glorify Mary, prays TO Mary, and asks favours of her. I dare anyone to deny that fact! They also pray TO saints, and asks favours of them, also. I defy anyone to deny that. Vatican 2 did NOT change one jot or tittle of RC doctrine/dogma. The RCC is always the same. Maybe the outward forms have changed, but the inside has NOT.:jesus:
I also want to say that I do not despise any of my history. I do not hate RC people or the Church. There are some very unscriptural things in the RCC and I see that and I admit to it. And the teaching of the RCC is that to be RC, one must believe 100% of what the Church teaches. A RC cannot pick and choose what he or she believes. It's all or nothing. So, I do not accept 100% of the dogma. So, I'm out. As for Orthodoxy, who claims to be the one, true, church, and claims that Rome is the first Protestant Church, I believe it to be more scriptural in some things than Rome. However, in Orthodoxy it is more important to be Greek, or Russian, or Ukrainian, or Romanian than anything else. Then, you're Orthodox. And if you are not part of the ethnic group of the parish church, hey, you are an outsider, and will always remain so. Canonising various ethnic folkways is very important. To some Orthodox, candle-lighting and icon-kissing, and making prostrations, are the whole of the faith. Don't tell me about any of it---I've been there!!!

 

[lori4dogs]

Now that's an interesting discussion. How? Would be my question. It probably requires another thread but how have you seen yourself become stronger as a Catholic?

I have an opportunity to attend the Eucharist and the Divine Office daily. I get a pretty healthy dose of God's word along with reception of Holy Communion. My particular Catholic Church also offers a lot of bible study classes and has many intercessory prayer groups going that I participate in as much as possible.

Lots more to share. Off to work.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

If I had a nickle for every typo I have made I'd be a veeeery rich man!


:tonofbricks:

Me too.........................

 

[lori4dogs]

'As of this writing, there is no move to accept Anglicans into Rome'

Apparently you haven't been watching the news. Vatican released the announcement early today (actually 11:30 AM in Rome)

You are right, Anglican orders are not being accepted as valid but there is going to be a special provision (apparently soon) that will spell out how long the process will take.

Your are also right about womens ordination.

 

[lori4dogs]

http://www.americancatholic.org/

Includes official Vatican announcement

 

[DHK]

http://www.americancatholic.org/

Includes official Vatican announcement

How fast our society degenerates. Ecumenism picks up its pace.
True believers ought to be excited. This is only another sign.
Christ is coming soon!

 

[Doubting Thomas]

'As of this writing, there is no move to accept Anglicans into Rome'

Apparently you haven't been watching the news. Vatican released the announcement early today (actually 11:30 AM in Rome)

You are right, Anglican orders are not being accepted as valid but there is going to be a special provision (apparently soon) that will spell out how long the process will take.

Your are also right about womens ordination.

Here's a response to that on the Continuum, a blogsite for traditional classical Anglicans (of which I am one) outside the official 'Anglican Communion':
http://anglicancontinuum.blogspot.com/2009/10/thanks-but-no-thanks.html

Since I obviously don't believe that Anglican orders are invalid, and I (and many other Continuing Anglicans) cannot accept the Roman dogmas concerning the pope and Mary as necessary to believe for salvation, I won't be taking the plunge into the Tiber.

 

[lori4dogs]

It is my understanding that the entire Traditional Anglican Communion is taking the plunge.
So far, my scanning of the Anglican blogs and Anglo Catholic sites seems to be showing a mixed reaction. I expect more of the Forward in Faith crowd in England to quickly take up the offer than here in the U.S. This definately puts pressure on Rowan Williams to provide an orthodox province within the Communion or I suspect it may implode quickly. What do you think?

 

[DHK]

It is my understanding that the entire Traditional Anglican Communion is taking the plunge.
So far, my scanning of the Anglican blogs and Anglo Catholic sites seems to be showing a mixed reaction. I expect more of the Forward in Faith crowd in England to quickly take up the offer than here in the U.S. This definately puts pressure on Rowan Williams to provide an orthodox province within the Communion or I suspect it may implode quickly. What do you think?

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNe...pe_anglicans_091020/20091020?hub=TopStoriesV2

 

[Doubting Thomas]

It is my understanding that the entire Traditional Anglican Communion is taking the plunge.
So far, my scanning of the Anglican blogs and Anglo Catholic sites seems to be showing a mixed reaction. I expect more of the Forward in Faith crowd in England to quickly take up the offer than here in the U.S. This definately puts pressure on Rowan Williams to provide an orthodox province within the Communion or I suspect it may implode quickly. What do you think?

This doesn't apply to the Anglican Catholic Church (and its sister jurisdictions, the APCK and UECNA), as we are not in the TAC. I have also heard rumblings that many in the ACA (the TAC's American jurisdiction) may look elsewhere if the TAC swims the Tiber.

At any rate there will continue to be flux in the Anglican world--those still in the official Lambeth communion and those of us outside of it--for years to come.

 

[Matt Black]

I think that they'll get a mixed response from Forward in Faith here. Whilst there will be some who will swim the Tiber with TAC (and +Ebbsfleet has indicated he'll be one of them), many priests will not be terribly excited by the prospect of their stipend being knocked down from £22500pa to £8000pa, nor that their Orders are not sacramentally valid. As for ++Rowan having to accommodate traditionalists, I think if anything the opposite will happen: his attitude will be more like, "well, if you're going over to Rome anyway, why should we bother with trying to make you happy?"

 

[Melanie]

Goodness gracious me, this seems insane to me...the RCC would have to overturn centuries of teachings. It also insults the martyrs of the Faith ...