Question for Calvinists: Acts 16:30-31

[Martin Marprelate]

Hello, Pinoybaptist,
I'm sorry, I don't know your name, but thanks for your interesting post.

I knew someone was bound to point that out. How about being somebody who deals with the scum of society, even today, of whom these two were counted with (though we know they were not), and had to survive by your wit, would you trust the scum you were guarding ?

If I thought someone was the scum of society, I don't think I would come before them trembling, bow down and ask them what I must do to be saved.

Not to this pagan, and certainly not for us today, but it was for PAUL and SILAS. There's a difference. PAUL was an apostle, Silas was handpicked by the Spirit, and together they did miracles in Christ's Name, were authorized to do so, were PROPHESIED of by Christ Himself, and so to them, the answer to man's troubles was Christ, and that was their mission: to turn God's elect among Jewry and the pagan part of the world to the living God. And again: we are talking about an event that happened years after the last recorded sighting of the Lord, before He went back to His heaven, not of Iraqi Christian persecution today.

With respect, I don't think you've answered my question. If all this guy was interested in doing was getiing or keeping out of trouble, why would he ask a couple of prisoners what he should do, and why would he court more trouble by letting them out of jail? No, God used the hymn-singing and the earthquake to open the jailor's heart to see the power of Paul's God and his sinfulness and need of salvation. In theological terms, this is 'Conviction.'

I fail to grasp your point here against what I said.

You appear to be suggesting that Paul would say that believing in the Lord Jesus is a way of getting out of trouble. First of all it definitely isn't, and secondly I quoted 1Cor 15:9 to show that Paul would never ever say anything that suggested that faith in Christ might be purely for this world.

So now, the efficacy of Christ's blood, and the integrity of His whole life which He lived for us and of His obedience even unto death, and the power of His resurrrection, depends on the sinner's ability to believe?

Not at all, but according to God's revealed word, He does not save anyone to whom He does not give faith. I gave you 1Cor 1:21; try also John 3:18 and Heb 11:6. If God has special arrangements for infants and the mentally impaired (as I'm sure He has) He has not revealed them to us.

It might do well for you to consider the context of these biblical times, and ask yourself, does preaching result in the listener's soul's eternal salvation, or does it result in his being converted from erroneous teaching and therefore saved from the futility and emptiness of his idolatrous religion.

The answer is, both of those things. A preacher saves no one, but God uses preaching to save those who believe (1Cor 1:21 again).

The elect's soul's redemption rests only on the finished work of Christ on his behalf. His belief is proof of his regenerate soul.

Amen! But no one will be saved apart from hearing or reading the word of God (Rom 9;14-15).

Like I said earlier on in this post, I herein make no assertions that this jailor is NOT a child of God, nor any of his family members. He may well be, and they all well may be.

As I said, we can't know for sure, but I suggest that his actions suggest that his faith is genuine (Acts 26:20b; James 2:22ff).

Again, my argument was centered on : what must I DO to be saved ? Saved meaning redeemed, spared from God's wrath, saved from the fires of hell, become a child of God (one does not become a child of God, either he is a child of God, or a child of the devil).

Since Paul answered what he must do, then I am sure Paul meant saved from timely repercussions, not eternal ones, because these two will ALWAYS be the ones to tell anyone ALL WAS DONE BY CHRIST ON BEHALF OF HIS PEOPLE.

Pardon me asking, but would I be right in thinking that you join with John Gill and others in believing in 'Justification from Eternity'? My Calvinism is perhaps a little more 'Spurgeonic'; Election is from eternity, but Justification takes place in time (cf. Isaiah 12:10). Rather than divert this interesting thread, I will start a new one on this subject in the next day or two. In the meantime, you might like to consider John 6:28-29.

'Then they said to Him, "What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?"' Our Lord does not tell them, "There's nothing you can do. I do it all for you." No. 'Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent."'

Steve

 

[pinoybaptist]

Hey, Martin....you're welcome to start the thread....and, I am not a Calvinist, no disrespect to those who are....I look at the Doctrine of Grace as Primitive Baptists do...I am at work, and getting off lunch now, so I'll see if I can come back to your post later when I get home, or at my son's house. We Filipinos are helplessly traditionalistic.
we always try to be at the table with family for the beginning of the New Year.

 

[pinoybaptist]

some questions.
Foundations of questions:

1. Scientists would admit or say that at least in our galaxy, the sun, moon, and planets are distanced exactly in such a way as to be both beneficial and harmless to each other;

2. A study of life on earth shows that each species and sub-species of animals and such like contain exactly the knowledge, skills and abilities needed to survive, to defend itself, and to breed;

3. The Bible tells us that God created all things, which means to the minutest detail of planning of the creation's life, and that man is His crowning creation, although man ultimately rejected Him through the choices made by his Federal Head, Adam, and as such all of Adam's posterity was alienated from God;

4. However, the Bible also tells us that God had made provision for this fall through a Promised Redeemer (Gen 3:15) and that He had a ready list of His people whom He chose in Christ and whose names He wrote in a Book of Life called the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world (Revelation, forgot chapter and verse);

5. So that makes God the God of all Creation, and of all mankind, even though He is not the Father of all mankind.

So since, according to Calvinists, Arminians and those who call themselves Biblicists, God only saves those who believe through the foolishness of preaching, is it fair to say that:

God only started redeeming souls and saving them when gospel preaching started ?
if so, what of those who have not been exposed to gospel preaching, after the cross, and down through the ages.
Better still, what to do with those who have had the misfortune to be born in non-Biblical lands in non-Biblical lands ? Does this mean that ALL other Gentile races are doomed until somebody from the mission societies, after the apostles' times, happens to submit himself to God's calling and goes and sacrifices his/her life to the gospel call to preach ?

 

[pinoybaptist]

clarification:

I guess, the main question is: How could a God who so meticulously planned His creation to the minutest detail, leave it to human beings who could not get past walls nor be at any point of time and space everytime to get the souls of people He planned to save from eternity past for eternity saved by their preaching ? does the question make sense, or does it need a little more elucidation ?

 

[InTheLight]

God used the hymn-singing and the earthquake to open the jailor's heart to see the power of Paul's God and his sinfulness and need of salvation. In theological terms, this is 'Conviction.'

Or more likely, the earthquake and the chains and fetters simultaneously dropping off the prisoners showed the jailer the power of the one true God. There is no awareness of sinfulness or conviction mentioned in the passage.

 

[Luke2427]

Or more likely, the earthquake and the chains and fetters simultaneously dropping off the prisoners showed the jailer the power of the one true God. There is no awareness of sinfulness or conviction mentioned in the passage.

None of this matters, IMO.

God saves only one way- by regenerating a spiritually dead spirit, transplanting a desperately wicked heart with one that seeks God, granting faith to believe and then saving.

 

[pinoybaptist]

no, here in time, God saved His people thru Christ the Crucified One.
And those He has placed under the blood of Christ, He regenerates.
He will not regenerate anyone who is not His own from the foundation of the world.
They are the Ones for whom Christ shed His blood.
They are known of the Spirit, who regenerates them in His own time, independent of any means.