Question for Pre-Tribbers (not to debate you)

[Greektim]

I just watched (for the first time) the new Left Behind trailer.

Do you believe that babies will be raptured too?

That caught me by surprise in the trailer. A nursery at the hospital w/ empty bassinets. Mothers crying. Their arms empty w/ the baby no longer wrapped in the blanket. Saddening really.

To what extent? Babies in the womb as well? Mothers pregnant then no more?

Doesn't your interpretation of Matt. 24 and other passages speak of mothers pregnant or nursing during the Trib? Wouldn't that imply that there will be babies at the beginning of the Trib?

Mat 24:19 And alas for women who are pregnant and for those who are nursing infants in those days!

 

[InTheLight]

I just watched (for the first time) the new Left Behind trailer.

Do you believe that babies will be raptured too?

That caught me by surprise in the trailer. A nursery at the hospital w/ empty bassinets. Mothers crying. Their arms empty w/ the baby no longer wrapped in the blanket. Saddening really.

To what extent? Babies in the womb as well? Mothers pregnant then no more?

Doesn't your interpretation of Matt. 24 and other passages speak of mothers pregnant or nursing during the Trib? Wouldn't that imply that there will be babies at the beginning of the Trib?

Mat 24:19 And alas for women who are pregnant and for those who are nursing infants in those days!

Hmmmm.... you make a good point regarding how could babies be in the Tribulation if they were raptured?. Well, I suppose there would be a dearth of babies for the first nine months after the rapture, but after that there would be more births. I don't hold to the belief that the Tribulation starts the instant the rapture happens, it could be days, weeks, even years. This scenario would allow for babies to be raptured and for babies to be in the Tribulation.

I know from the book series--I read the first couple of books then quit--babies do indeed get raptured out of the womb.

I believe that babies will be raptured, but I'm a weird duck because I don't think our bodies will disappear, I think they will be left behind. I think there will be a lot of corpses around to be cleaned up. This would explain the enigmatic verse at Matthew 24:28, "Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather."

When the Bible says, "Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left" I believe the person "taken" will be the person raptured, but instead of the traditional pre-trib rapture interpretation that "taken" means the body disappears and is carried up into Heaven (presumably changing from corruptible to incorruptible mid-flight), I think when it says "taken" it means the traditional interpretation, as in "The Lord has taken so-and-so home to Heaven", in other words this person's soul is gone, the body is dead.

In my unconventional interpretation, there would be a lot of stillbirths at the rapture because the babies soul is gone to Heaven but the body remains behind.

 

[percho]

We as, "Christians," have some strange thoughts.

If what you saw in that trailer is correct then by the same token when, "we," dropped just the two big bombs on Japan to end the war, "we," saved a lot of babies in and out of the womb, for their parents were probably of, "Shinto and Buddhism are Japan's two major religions," from Wikipedia, not to mention all the little bombs.

What a way to preach the gospel.

 

[go2church]

And this is why we don't get theology from fiction books and movies.

 

[Judith]

No, there was no babies that went on the Ark or that went with Lot so I see no reason to believe they will go in the rapture. The rapture is for the church only. I would add that I do not believe there will be worldwide airplane crashes, car wrecks or other problems.

I believe it will be like the time of Noah and Lot when there was very few real believers and very few will go in the rapture.

The falling away must happen first. I do believe that we (the church) have entered into it, but it is not full blown yet. I believe that when the rapture happens most churches will not have a single person who is saved. Right now many scholars put it at about 40 percent who attend regularly are actually saved. At the rapture I believe it will be almost "0" and those who are raptured will not even be missed.

 

[InTheLight]

No, there was no babies that went on the Ark or that went with Lot so I see no reason to believe they will go in the rapture. The rapture is for the church only.

So what happens to the baby if a born again pregnant woman is raptured?

 

[evangelist6589]

I just watched (for the first time) the new Left Behind trailer.

Do you believe that babies will be raptured too?

That caught me by surprise in the trailer. A nursery at the hospital w/ empty bassinets. Mothers crying. Their arms empty w/ the baby no longer wrapped in the blanket. Saddening really.

To what extent? Babies in the womb as well? Mothers pregnant then no more?

Doesn't your interpretation of Matt. 24 and other passages speak of mothers pregnant or nursing during the Trib? Wouldn't that imply that there will be babies at the beginning of the Trib?

Mat 24:19 And alas for women who are pregnant and for those who are nursing infants in those days!

Probably. But then again perhaps not all babies as some may not be elect. God knows whom the elect are and some may stay behind. However I can't be for certain and am speculating.

 

[beameup]

"babies" don't receive their soul until "first breath" - just like Adam.
Matt 24 is not written to the Church (Body of Christ), it is written to Israel,
and is "yet future". The Body of Christ departs, Israel takes over to fulfill their "destiny".

 

[Revmitchell]

And this is why we don't get theology from fiction books and movies.

Disagreeing is one thing but such claims are unfounded and infair. No one gets their theology from fiction books and movies.

 

[Greektim]

Disagreeing is one thing but such claims are unfounded and infair. No one gets their theology from fiction books and movies.

I think you'd be surprised how much eschatology has been based around these books and movies. Or you are not being as honest as you should be.

 

[Revmitchell]

I think you'd be surprised how much eschatology has been based around this. Or you are not being as honest as you should be.

Sorry but that is just false. The movie and the books are based on eschatology not the other way around. Trying to assert otherwise is just a childish attempt to demonize what you disagree with.

 

[Pastor_Bob]

Doesn't your interpretation of Matt. 24 and other passages speak of mothers pregnant or nursing during the Trib? Wouldn't that imply that there will be babies at the beginning of the Trib?

Mat 24:19 And alas for women who are pregnant and for those who are nursing infants in those days!

Excellent question.

Mt 24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! (KJV)

Perhaps the woe is the result of their unborn baby or infant child being taken away from them at the rapture. The common interpretation would be that the woe refers to their difficulty of fleeing being with child or with a nursing child. My first thought is that, these aren't the only group of people who would have difficulty. The elderly, the sick, the crippled, to name a few.

 

[DHK]

Doesn't your interpretation of Matt. 24 and other passages speak of mothers pregnant or nursing during the Trib? Wouldn't that imply that there will be babies at the beginning of the Trib?

Mat 24:19 And alas for women who are pregnant and for those who are nursing infants in those days!

And they should also flee to Judea!

When the rapture occurs I don't plan to be in Judea. I have no intention on going to that land. And since I am in retirement age, the time of my travel is going to somewhat limited.
The verse is speaking to the Jews in the time of the Tribulation Period, not to the Bride of Christ.

 

[evangelist6589]

Sorry but that is just false. The movie and the books are based on eschatology not the other way around. Trying to assert otherwise is just a childish attempt to demonize what you disagree with.

I agree with Mitchell here. Left behind is based on eschatology and GreekTim has probably not even read any deep Tim Lahaye books. He may sarcastically reply and accuse Tim of not being deep, but that is a way to demonize what he disagrees with. So Tim give him a chance. I am striving to read through this 4 views on Revelation book and hear Gentry's arguments.

 

[webdog]

And they should also flee to Judea!

When the rapture occurs I don't plan to be in Judea. I have no intention on going to that land. And since I am in retirement age, the time of my travel is going to somewhat limited.
The verse is speaking to the Jews in the time of the Tribulation Period, not to the Bride of Christ.

Best answer on this thread. There will be babies born during the tribulation just like they will be born during the Millenial Kingdom. The notion babies will be left behind is barbaric. God will take me, my wife and son...and leave my two young daughters to fend for themselves?!?

 

[Greektim]

Best answer on this thread. There will be babies born during the tribulation just like they will be born during the Millenial Kingdom. The notion babies will be left behind is barbaric. God will take me, my wife and son...and leave my two young daughters to fend for themselves?!?

Is it not equally barbaric to strip mothers of their babies just because... reasons?

 

[Greektim]

I agree with Mitchell here. Left behind is based on eschatology and GreekTim has probably not even read any deep Tim Lahaye books. He may sarcastically reply and accuse Tim of not being deep, but that is a way to demonize what he disagrees with. So Tim give him a chance. I am striving to read through this 4 views on Revelation book and hear Gentry's arguments.

No sarcasm. Tim Lahaye is not deep. Period. He is no serious theologian. There are good theologians that are dispies. But he is not one of them.

 

[Greektim]

Sorry but that is just false. The movie and the books are based on eschatology not the other way around. Trying to assert otherwise is just a childish attempt to demonize what you disagree with.

You must misunderstand. I know Lahaye's fiction is based on his eschatological interpretation.

What I am saying is that people (I might be cruel and call them stupid or dull of wit) have been more influenced theologically by these fictions than actual theological works (or the Bible for that matter).

If you've not run into these people... well then you need to get out more. I lived in the Bible belt. I pass by the Lahaye Center even still while "home". I'm telling you, many Christians base their eschatology on Left Behind because they don't know much better.

 

[Revmitchell]

You must misunderstand. I know Lahaye's fiction is based on his eschatological interpretation.

What I am saying is that people (I might be cruel and call them stupid or dull of wit) have been more influenced theologically by these fictions than actual theological works (or the Bible for that matter).

If you've not run into these people... well then you need to get out more. I lived in the Bible belt. I pass by the Lahaye Center even still while "home". I'm telling you, many Christians base their eschatology on Left Behind because they don't know much better.

While this is a more clear and fair way of putting it, it is an assumption on your part. People get a lot of things from wrong sources. Just take a look at the response to the book called "The Shack". There are those who take theology from that.

What you did was paint with a broad brush and make it look like everyone who holds to that theology only gets it from those books and movies. It is jsut not true.

 

[webdog]

Is it not equally barbaric to strip mothers of their babies just because... reasons?

No. The mothers made their choice to reject the truth. A one year old left alone by himself hasn't.