Question on Galatians 5:4 and OSAS

[Me4Him]

Ro 6:23 For the wages of sin is death;


Sin.....The Law.....Death.
Sin.....The law.....Death.....Jesus....Salvation

"WHO" pays the wages of a "lost Salvation".

sin.....The Law.....Death....."WHO"....salvation

Mt 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

 

[BobRyan]

Jesus pays for our debt of sin "AND NOT for our sins ONLY but for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD" 1John 2:2.

But THE WHOLE WORLD is not SAVED!!

The "trick" of saying "Christ paid for ALL sin so I can not possibly be lost no matter how much I engage in rebellion" has not worked for the lost world!

The ONLY way we RECEIVE forgiveness AND full atonement is through the LAW-Approved Atonement model of Lev 16 Becuase God "IS JUST and the JUSTIFIER Of those that SEEK HIM" Romans 3.

God says "It is not the HEARERS of the Law that are justified but the DOERS of the LAW WILL BE Justified" Romans 2:13.

God shows that the born-again NEW Creation is one who under the new Covenant has "The LAW of God WRITTEN on the heart".

In fact Paul says "Do we then make VOID the LAW of God by our faith?? God forbid!! In fact we ESTABLISH the Law of God!" Rom 3:31

The doctrine of OSAS would rather abolish, destroy and ignore the Law of God than let it have its UPHELD position within the Gospel of God!

God is not in the business of sponsoring rebellion against His Word!

That truth seem to shock and surprise way too many Christians today.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Originally posted by JackRUS:

John 21:15
[ Jesus Restores Peter NASB ]

So when they had eaten breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Simon, son of Jonah, do you love Me more than these?” He said to Him, “Yes, Lord; You know that I love You.” He said to him, “Feed My lambs.”


Bob - Are you saying that Peter was lost before that happened? Then how do you explain this a full chapter before?:

"And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:" John 20:22

I say in answer to your charge that there is NO MENTION of Peter's faithfulness AFTER His denial of Christ -- that you are wrong.

Peter denied Christ and then immediately repented - but Judas denied Christ and then REMAINED apart from Christ. The true child of God may fall but they will repent and turn - like a cat in mud vs a pig in mud. The nature (the born again nature) of the true child of God with the "LAW of God WRITTEN on the heart" Heb 8 will always result in repentance and turning from sin. UNLESS they FALL as Paul warned in Romans 11.

"To not be arrogant but FEAR -- if God did not spare THEM - NEITHER will He spare YOU"

It is as true today as it was then.

Christ said in John 14 "IF you LOVE Me KEEP my Commandments" we see the SAME thing of the SAINTS in REV 12 "The saints KEEP the Commandments of God"

In Christ,

Bob

 

[Me4Him]

I suppose "THE LAW" and "application of Law" is the "MOST" mis-understood doctrine in the "WORLD".

A "JUDGE" never issue a "JUDGEMENT" according to his "predilection" but according to what the "LAW" requires.

We call the court of a Judges who "ARBITRALITY" issue opinions based on his "predilection", rather than the "LAW", a "KANGAROO COURT".

We're "ALL" guilty of sin, "UNDER THE LAW", however God said for those who have "FAITH" in Jesus, the law of death for sin would be "FULFILLED" in Jesus's death, so the law of death "WILL NOT" apply to them.

Ro 6:23 For the wages of sin is death;

but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Ro 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Ro 6:14 for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

We all sin before being saved, and we continue to sin after being saved,

But God said, "once we're saved, the law of death for sin will "NO LONGER APPLY" to us.

For God to "come back" and charge us with a sin "UNDER THE LAW", after saying it would not apply, would not only "VIOLATE" his Promise, but also the "LAW" in the "FACT" that Jesus has paid all the "LAW" requires.

Jesus, in paying for "ALL OUR SINS" has "satisfied" the requirements of the "LAW",

And if God then charging us with a sin, it would "NEGATE" the death of Jesus in paying for "ALL OUR SINS".

As with "ALL JUDGES", they only "ADMINISTER" the "LAW", and issue "JUDGEMENTS" according to the "LAW",

"GOD DOESN'T JUDGE ANYONE", the "LAW" is the "JUDGE", and the "LAW" decides the penalty,

For "believers", the "Death" the law requires was "fulfilled" by Jesus, this law no longer applies to "believers".

"UnBelievers" will suffer the "Death" the law requires.

And this is how God will Judge the world, "ACCORDING TO LAW"

Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

A "JUDGE" (God) can not charge a person with a crime, (sin) if there is "NO LAW" to condemn that crime,

Ro 5:13 but sin is not imputed (charged) when there is no law.

"All Have sinned", but Jesus didn't come to condemn the world but that the WHOLE WORLD".. MIGHT BE...Saved, and died for the sins of the "WHOLE WORLD".

The "OFFER" of salvation is made to the whole world, the "JUDGE" isn't willing for any to "perish", but that "BY FAITH" in Jesus, the "LAW" "COULD NOT" condemn them.

Calvinist believe God passes "JUDGEMENT" according to "Predilection" (predestination) rather than the "LAW", but as the "JUDGE", God only "Administer" the law and passes JUDGMENT" as the law "REQUIRES",

This is why God will condemn "in spite" of his "personal predilection" that none should perish.

NO LAW, NO SIN, NO DEATH,

LAW...SIN...DEATH

The "ERROR" of both "Calvin" and the "Anti OSAS" doctrine is easily seen when the law is understood.

 

[JackRUS]

Bob.
How would you define keeping the commandments of God? Perfectly, or as 1 John 1:8-10 describes?

 

[Hope of Glory]

Peter denied Christ and then immediately repented - but Judas denied Christ and then REMAINED apart from Christ.

I don't have time to deal with this entire subject right now, but I wanted to deal with this statement. Judas never "repented".

Repentance means a changing of direction and returning to the correct path. You have to have been on the correct path to return to the correct path. The lost don't need to repent, they need to be saved.

The English word “repent”, from the Latin word “repoenitet”, simply means “to be sorry”, and that just does not convey the full meaning of the Greek word. John did not merely want people to be sorry, but to change their attitudes (literally, “after mind”) and he wanted them to change the way they acted. One of the problems is that we do not have a single English word that reproduces the exact meaning of the Greek word.

The Greek does have a word that means to be sorry, which is exactly our English word “repent”, and it is used in the NT in reference to Judas in Matthew 27:3, which says, “Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders”. That’s a different Greek word, “metamelomai”, which simply means “regret”. Judas regretted what he had done, but it was too late to change, wasn’t it? The deed was done.

 

[JackRUS]

"Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,
Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen." Heb. 13:20-21

 

[Me4Him]

Originally posted by Hope of Glory:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> Peter denied Christ and then immediately repented - but Judas denied Christ and then REMAINED apart from Christ.

I don't have time to deal with this entire subject right now, but I wanted to deal with this statement. Judas never "repented".

Repentance means a changing of direction and returning to the correct path. You have to have been on the correct path to return to the correct path. The lost don't need to repent, they need to be saved.

The English word “repent”, from the Latin word “repoenitet”, simply means “to be sorry”, and that just does not convey the full meaning of the Greek word. John did not merely want people to be sorry, but to change their attitudes (literally, “after mind”) and he wanted them to change the way they acted. One of the problems is that we do not have a single English word that reproduces the exact meaning of the Greek word.

The Greek does have a word that means to be sorry, which is exactly our English word “repent”, and it is used in the NT in reference to Judas in Matthew 27:3, which says, “Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders”. That’s a different Greek word, “metamelomai”, which simply means “regret”. Judas regretted what he had done, but it was too late to change, wasn’t it? The deed was done. </font>[/QUOTE]"WHAT" a person "BELIEVES" in their "HEART", will govern their "ACTIONS",

A tree (person) is known by it's fruits.

"TRUE REPENTANCE" will "manifest" it's self in the "ACTION" of "turning from the sin".

"REGRET" is more of a "sorry I got caught" attitude, than a "REPENTANCE" of "Sorry I committed the act".

All the lost on Judgement day will "Regret", but given another chance, would not "Repent", WHY,

Sin is a "pleasure to the flesh", there's nothing to "repent of", no "sorrow" for their sin.

 

[JackRUS]

I might add concerning Peter that, didn't Jesus pray in Luke 22:31-34 this?:

"And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:
But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.
And he said unto him, Lord, I am ready to go with thee, both into prison, and to death.
And he said, I tell thee, Peter, the cock shall not crow this day, before that thou shalt thrice deny that thou knowest me."

Why do some people suppose that the Father denied the Son concerning this prayer, and also Jesus' prayer in John 17:9-12?:

"I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.
And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the
son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled."

Not mention this same prayer for us in verse 20:

"Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;"

That's every believer from that point forward folks. EVERY SINGLE ONE!

 

[BobRyan]

Originally posted by JackRUS:
Bob.
How would you define keeping the commandments of God? Perfectly, or as 1 John 1:8-10 describes?

How much rebellion against God is "sponsored" by God?

God never says "sin some". If you want me to "read in" to what He says "Do some rebelling against My Word please" I can not.

So as HE says in 1John 2 "These things I write that you sin NOT but IF anyone does sin We HAVE an advocate with the Father" - fitting to speak these words right after saying "IF we confess our sins HE IS faithful and JUST to forgive us our sins AND to cleanse us from ALL unrighteousness".

God's Word is true.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

No Law -- No savior needed!

James 2
8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, "" YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF,'' you are doing well.

9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors.
10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.
11 For He who said, "" DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY,'' also said, "" DO NOT COMMIT MURDER.'' Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty.

 

[Me4Him]

Originally posted by BobRyan:
No Law -- No savior needed!


</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />James 2
8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, "" YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF,'' you are doing well.

9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors.
10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.
11 For He who said, "" DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY,'' also said, "" DO NOT COMMIT MURDER.'' Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty.

</font>[/QUOTE]One sin, you are "guilty of all",

WHO "TOTALLY" STOPS SINNING??

1Jo 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

One sin, we're guilty of all,

"HOW" can a person still sin, and be saved, "According to Law", the obvious answer is "THEY CAN'T".

However, if there are "TWO" people, An "INWARD MAN" and "OUTWARD MAN" (Soul/Flesh) which are "Contrary" to the other, one can be saved, (soul) while allowing the other to perish. (Flesh)

Ga 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

The "WORD" can "divide" (cut out) the "Soul from the Flesh".

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

BUT even the "SOUL" continues to sin after being saved, but in dying for the sins of the whole world, Adam/Eve-last person saved, Jesus paid all the law requires, in effect "SEALING" the saved against "condemnation by the law". (no law)

Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

"ONCE SAVED", your "ETERNAL SALVATION" is "AS CERTAIN" as Jesus's death "PAID FOR ALL YOUR SINS".

I "KNOW" you believe that.

 

[BobRyan]

Originally posted by BobRyan:
No Law -- No savior needed!


</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />James 2
8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, "" YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF,'' you are doing well.

9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors.
10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.
11 For He who said, "" DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY,'' also said, "" DO NOT COMMIT MURDER.'' Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty.

</font>[/QUOTE]Then "by contrast" are those who "wish they had read" in James 2

So speak and so act as those who could not POSSIBLY be judged by God's Law of liberty and the story spun around that direct contradition is "because if God ever DID judge anyone by that law they would fail so no more nonesense about God wanting the saints to SO SPEAK and act as THOSE WHO ARE to be judged by God's Law of liberty"

Hmmm.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[Me4Him]

Originally posted by BobRyan:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by BobRyan:
No Law -- No savior needed!


</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />James 2
8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, "" YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF,'' you are doing well.

9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors.
10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.
11 For He who said, "" DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY,'' also said, "" DO NOT COMMIT MURDER.'' Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty.

</font>[/QUOTE]Then "by contrast" are those who "wish they had read" in James 2

So speak and so act as those who could not POSSIBLY be judged by God's Law of liberty and the story spun around that direct contradition is "because if God ever DID judge anyone by that law they would fail so no more nonesense about God wanting the saints to SO SPEAK and act as THOSE WHO ARE to be judged by God's Law of liberty"

Hmmm.

In Christ,

Bob </font>[/QUOTE]I suppose the easy way to say it is that we are saved, not because of the "ABSENTS OF SIN", but "IN SPITE" of our sin. (GRACE)

Jesus fulfilled the requirements of the Law, in dying "ONCE", so the "ordiances" (law) against us was "nailed to the cross".

Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; (Law)

In dying "ONCE", Jesus satisfied the law "ONCE AND FOREVER", not only for past sins, but also present and future, in effect "Nullifying the law" (taking it out of the way) so we are not "Under the law", even if we sin, (future sins) Jesus's death also "PAID" for them.

And the "JUDGE" (God) will not charge you with a "crime" (sin) if there is NO LAW" to condemn that "crime". (sin)

Heb 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

Ro 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God (Salvation) is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

The law requires "Death for sin", If we committed "ONE SIN" Jesus didn't pay for, then either Jesus came back and died for that sin or we would die,

GOD NEVER FORGIVE SIN the debt of every sin will be paid, either by Jesus or the person,

NO EXCEPTIONS the law won't allow it.

 

[BobRyan]

I think we agree that God's forgiveness (1John 1:9) is based on the fact that Christ is "The Atoning sacrifice for our sins and not for our sins only but for the sins of the whole world" 1John 2:2.

That way the law of God is ESTABLISHED - is UPHELD rather than abolished in the process of forgiveness.

"IF we CONFESS our sins HE IS faithful AND JUST to FORGIVE US our sins AND to cleanse us from ALL unrighteousness".

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Originally posted by BobRyan:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />James 2
8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, "" YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF,'' you are doing well.

9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors.
10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.
11 For He who said, "" DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY,'' also said, "" DO NOT COMMIT MURDER.'' Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty.

</font>[/QUOTE]Is James trying to say in some failing kind of way "what I mean by all this Royal Law and Law of Liberty stuff is that the saints must pay no attention to the Law of Liberty because as a saint you are not going to be judged by it - no need to worry about how it affects the way you act or speak"

Is this his way of saying "you are saved by Grace in spite of what the Law of Liberty says about you - so don't give it another thought. You are done with that!"??

Is a spin of the James 2 in that manner really "exegesis" or is it 'Reading INTO the text what we WISH it had said'?

In Christ,

Bob