Question re; Your definition/understanding of "Works" and "Grace"

[DHK]

HP: I take no offense at you calling me a Calvinist other than nothing that I have said or believe would serve as evidence that I am. If you can logically show me what I have said that would support even one letter of ‘tulip’ fire away.

HP said:

It is not that one ‘cannot’ obey the law prior to being saved, it is that he ‘will not.’

This is the Calvinist belief of Total Depravity. He will not because he cannot. You are saying the same thing in different words. It is simply a matter of semantics. You do believe in the Total Depravity of man, as much as you have denied it all these years.

 

[steaver]

Steaver, you have not answered my questions in the second paragraph of post #122 that I can find. You posted my questions in #124 but did not address the questions.



HP: I asked you about the stark contradiction of both believing and not believing that repentance and faith precedes salvation, but have not seen where you have freed yourself from that contradiction in the least.

There is no contradiction just because you believe there is. You are simply misunderstanding the post. There are no contradictory statements within the post. I asked some questions which must have put you on a spot.

Steaver: I believe Calvin also believed that one must be regenerated in order to be capable of obeying God's commandments. Don't you also believe this way?

Or do you believe one can keep God's commandments BEFORE the Holy Spirit indwellment (regeneration)? If yes, then there is no need for Christ's sacrifice. The Law would be sufficient.

And you replied;

HP: Here you once again appear to flatly contradict yourself. You say on one breath that one repents and believes antecedent to regeneration, and then you try and make the case of a Calvinist that flatly contradicts what you have just stated.

I was not trying to make a case for Calvin. This is your misperception of the post. The post was not to defend Calvin but was to show you the error of your views. Maybe you are misreading the first part as "I believe and Calvin believes" adding an "and" to the sentence. I did not say I believe as Calvin believes, I said I believe Calvin also believes yada yada yada.........as you do.

Which is it Steaver? Can a sinner, prior to salvation and apart from coercion by God, obey the commands of God to repent and exercise faith? Does God have to do something to enable man to obey his commands prior to the new birth?

Q1) Yes, However, the Father does need to draw and the Spirit convict prior to the sinner choosing to repent and believe.
Q2) Yes, the Father must draw and the Spirit must convict prior to the sinner choosing and prior to regeneration upon the sinner's choice being yes to Jesus.

Are we clear now?

:jesus:

 

[steaver]

HP: This is simply and absolute nonsense. Steaver tries to conclude something which the premise he sets forth simply does not support in the least. Once one sins, no amount of obedience on our part could ever atone for the least on sin committed. If the whole world was living according to the law, yet had once sinned, they would all still need a Savior, a sacrifice for the sin they had committed. Steaver’s conclusion is baseless and off the charts dead wrong.

All have sinned and come short of the glory of God. The Law could not save anyone for no one could keep it.

Hbr 8:7For if that first [covenant] had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

If you believe it is possible for a person to keep God's commandments perfectly then you are in reality rejecting His word that says no one could.

My conclusions in light of scripture are dead on!

:jesus: