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Question to the GES: Deity of Christ

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Lou Martuneac, Aug 19, 2007.

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Open Poll: Can a lost man be born again while consciously rejecting His Deity?

Poll closed Sep 18, 2007.

  1. Yes

    3 vote(s)
    8.8%

  2. No

    30 vote(s)
    88.2%

  3. I'm Not Sure

    1 vote(s)
    2.9%
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  1. standingfirminChrist

    standingfirminChrist New Member

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    No need to get snippety. Speak the truth in love.
     
    #61 standingfirminChrist, Sep 5, 2007
  2. standingfirminChrist

    standingfirminChrist New Member

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    My wife is very learned in the Scripture. She had informed me that although she has found predestination in the Scripture, there is no evidence of double predestination found anywhere the the Word of God.

    Why must you add to the Word?
     
    #62 standingfirminChrist, Sep 5, 2007
  3. Linda64

    Linda64 New Member

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    I didn't know that there was such a thing as "double predestination" in the Bible. Where in the Bible does one find such a teaching?
     
    #63 Linda64, Sep 5, 2007
  4. npetreley

    npetreley New Member

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    In the following, there are two types of vessels - those prepared for destruction, and those prepared for glory.

     
    #64 npetreley, Sep 5, 2007
  5. reformedbeliever

    reformedbeliever New Member

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    Who was getting snippety? The truth was spoken in love.
     
    #65 reformedbeliever, Sep 5, 2007
  6. reformedbeliever

    reformedbeliever New Member

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    You have got to be kidding me? lol I am not adding to the Word.

    Is the word trinity found in the word of God? If someone believes or does not believe in the trinity are they adding to the word of God?

    Why do you accuse me of adding to the word of God. If your wife is learned in the Scripture, why do you think you have to defend her? :wavey:
     
    #66 reformedbeliever, Sep 5, 2007
  7. reformedbeliever

    reformedbeliever New Member

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    Did you know there is no such thing as trinity in the scripture? The doctrine can be found there however.
     
    #67 reformedbeliever, Sep 5, 2007
  8. standingfirminChrist

    standingfirminChrist New Member

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    I wasn't defending her. I was pointing out the fact that double predestination is a man-made doctrine and not to be found in God's Word.
     
    #68 standingfirminChrist, Sep 5, 2007
  9. reformedbeliever

    reformedbeliever New Member

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    You don't get it do you? I never said double predestination is true doctrine. Your wife said that I believed that men are predestined to heaven and hell. That is not true. I do not believe in double predestination. Do you understand now?

    As far as man made doctrine goes, i'm not so sure about that either. There are verses of the bible that do lean toward double predestination. That is probably the subject of another thread however. I'm done arguing with you and your wife. Go back and read what she posted to me. You will find that she is saying that I believe in something I do not. I even asked for quotes if she could provide them. God bless you both.
     
    #69 reformedbeliever, Sep 5, 2007
  10. Linda64

    Linda64 New Member

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    I am very well aware of that.

    For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. (1 John 5:7-8)
     
    #70 Linda64, Sep 5, 2007
  11. Lou Martuneac

    Lou Martuneac New Member

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    Hi Folks:

    Sorry, that I have so little time to interact here this week. Very busy at work and in the middle of the "Crossless" gospel controversy.

    Please forgive having to direct you to the MAJOR update.

    Today Bob Wilkin's calls for someone to debate him was responded to with a challenge to a formal debate. Go to: An Open Challenge for a Public Debate Between Ron Shea and Bob Wilkin.


    LM
     
    #71 Lou Martuneac, Sep 5, 2007
  12. Lou Martuneac

    Lou Martuneac New Member

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    Christ's Deity Under Seige

    To All:

    The debate with the advocates of the “Crossless” gospel has reveled that they take a disturbing position on the titles of the Lord Jesus Christ.

    First, according to the “Crossless” gospel lost men do not need to know, understand or believe anything about Jesus Christ or what He did to provide for salvation. They refer to anything more than belief in the name Jesus, whoever the sinner thinks Jesus is, as “excess baggage,” and “checklist evangelism.”

    Second, the “Crossless” advocates also believe that a Jehovah’s Witness or any lost person can hold to heretical beliefs about the Lord Jesus Christ, but as long as he believes in the name Jesus as the Giver of eternal life he will be born again.

    Third, Zane Hodges, Bob Wilkin, Jeremy Myers and the official position of the GES is that His titles; “Christ” and “Son of God” do not mean or indicate the deity of Jesus Christ.

    It is bad enough that the advocates of the “Crossless” gospel eradicate the cross and resurrection of Jesus Christ from the Gospel, but they also chip away at the titles of the Lord Jesus Christ to keep their egregious position glued together.

    On Monday morning an article by Greg Schliesmann will be at my blog titled, The “Christ” Under Siege. Those of you who are familiar with the book by Zane Hodges will recognize the direction of The “Christ” Under Siege.


    LM
     
    #72 Lou Martuneac, Sep 9, 2007
  13. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    A suppose sceanerio is trully sad evidence for double predesination. I say supposed because of the first two words makes it supposed. The truth of the matter is, we are all vessels of wrath before Salvation.
    Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
    MB
     
    #73 MB, Sep 9, 2007
  14. Lou Martuneac

    Lou Martuneac New Member

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    MB:

    Who ever got the idea that I was speaking of Calvinism or the Calvinist in regard to "Crossless" gospel got confused somewhere.

    A discussion of double predestination has nothing to do with the interpretation of the Gospel coming from the GES, Hodges and Wilkin.


    LM

    PS: For the record I know what DP is and do not personally know of any Calvinist who holds to it, but have read some articles that support DP.
     
    #74 Lou Martuneac, Sep 9, 2007
  15. Lou Martuneac

    Lou Martuneac New Member

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    The Gold Mine of Souls

    Imagine missionary efforts 200 hundred years ago in the, “Gold Mine of Souls.”

    If William Carey took the “Crossless” interpretation of the Gospel to the Hindu of India he would have, in his first year, seen results that would have surpassed Pentecost or any revival campaign the world has ever seen.

    The evangelistic ministry of a Grace Evangelical Society (GES) "Crossless" missionary would eclipse the evangelistic achievements of Adoniram Judson, David Livingstone, Jonathan Goforth, and J. Hudson Taylor.

    Picture, if you will, a GES “Crossless/Deityless” gospel preaching missionary to India. That missionary would tell the Hindu that (in spite of his worship of many gods) “if you will believe in the name Jesus as the giver of eternal life, whomever you think Jesus is, you will receive eternal life.” The missionary would realize a stampede of new believers in the name Jesus, but not one genuine conversion.

    Now, think about the Bible-believing missionary (or a seminary trained national pastor/evangelist) who comes to that town after the “Crossless/Deityless” gospel was taught. He will have the double difficulty of preaching the unsearchable riches of the Lord Jesus Christ to those whose minds are not only blinded (2 Cor. 4: 3-6), but have also have been told they are born again, and already possess the gift of eternal life.


    LM
     
    #75 Lou Martuneac, Sep 12, 2007
  16. JustChristian

    JustChristian New Member

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    They also reject the requirement that someone must accept Christ as Lord in order to be saved and go so far as to call this a heresy. I remember that when i was baptized I was asked if I accepted Jesus as my Lord and Savior. This, according to Hodges, is heresy.
     
    #76 JustChristian, Sep 12, 2007
  17. Lou Martuneac

    Lou Martuneac New Member

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    Crossless & Lordship Teaching: Both Wrong!

    BB:

    1) Hodges is so far out-of-balance on the Gospel and repentance he has lost any right or credibility to determine or speak on what is right or wrong over the Gospel.

    2) Please do not take my next comments as though they are in regard to your conversion experience. They are in regard to the Lordship Salvation interpretation of the Gospel.

    John MacArthur’s Lordship Salvation interpretation of the Gospel is just as far to the other end of the extreme theological pendulum swing as Hodges is on his end.

    Both are wrong and have either added to or taken away from the one true Gospel of Jesus Christ. Hodges is wrong by reduction and subtraction; MacArthur is wrong by addition.

    For more see:

    John MacArthur’s Discipleship Salvation

    Hodges: The “Christ” Under Siege


    LM
     
    #77 Lou Martuneac, Sep 13, 2007
  18. EdSutton

    EdSutton New Member

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    Lou Martuneac has made a great point here with one sentence. I am not accepting or not accepting any particular individual or pointing them out, for the purpose of this illustration. Let me use some Scriptural illustrations.
    There is no real difference between adding to or taking away from the written Word of God. Both are a misuse, and one is no more or no less a misuse than is the other. That is true whether we are talking about what books (should) constitute Scripture; what is the actual text of Scripture; what is the message of Scripture; what we 'emphasize' from Scripture, in this case, the Gospel, the message to the world.

    What God is saying, in essence, in our vernacular, is "It's mine! Keep your hands off of it!" You are to be My witnesses! You are not to be My Editors!"



    When we attempt to make Scripture say other than what it says, we are on extremely dangerous ground. And as the gospel is an integral part of the whole message of the written Word of God, when one adds to or takes away from it in whatever fashion, hence, making it "another gospel", in the words of the KJV, one has added to, or taken away from "the whole counsel of God".

    One more, I'll say it, and put it another way. We both misuse and abuse, God and his word, whether we "rip the heart of the Divine God out of the Bible", or "fill the Bible full of the heart of fallen man"! And that goes for "in the whole" or "in the part".

    Ed
     
    #78 EdSutton, Sep 13, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 13, 2007
  19. npetreley

    npetreley New Member

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    Right. And the supposition is, what if? What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory? Do you have a problem with that? Apparently you do.
     
    #79 npetreley, Sep 13, 2007
  20. Lou Martuneac

    Lou Martuneac New Member

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    Men:

    Those of you who want to discuss double-predestination (DP), please begin a new thread.

    DP is not the subject of this thread.

    Thanks,


    Lou
     
    #80 Lou Martuneac, Sep 13, 2007
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