QUESTION: Why Do You Have Faith?

And if WE do the choosing then WE get the glory for doing the choosing.

If he helps us choose then He gets to share in some of our glory.

In your system God gets glory for only making it possible for you to be saved.

You get all the glory for actually connecting yourself to that salvation.

If you cause yourself to believe then you get credit- period.

If God causes you to believe then God gets credit- period.

It is that simple.

Sure. But where does the faith come from. Who causes one to believe?

If one causes himself to believe then he gets the credit for it.

If God causes him to believe then God gets the credit.

What doesn't make sense is for you to say, "I believed and God did not CAUSE me to believe but just LET me believe so I praise God that I believed."

That's utterly ridiculous.

 

saved

In the end the only thing I have to place at the feet of Jesus is the faith. That God has given me though His word. I will gladly place it at His feet for it was given to me by Him.

No one has to come to Jesus they way you did just come and He will direct their path and it will not always end up how you like it and aprove of.

 

But YOU do it- so praise yourself for placing that faith at Christ's feet.

This means that God causes you to believe.

If he gives you faith he causes you to believe.

You can't have it both ways. You can't have God causing you to believe on one hand and then you doing and God not causing you to do it on the other.

Which is it?

 

Faith

Faith is a noun something I can possess. It comes from God. Faith a noun, the word of life.

Belief, trust is a verb, something we do with faith, not God. God does not need to believe, trust or repent, we are called to.

 

IOs faith Intrinsic Within us, Or is Even IT A Gift From God?

Do all humans have faith "born" within us, we can exercise it once enabled such by grace of God, or is even Faith itself a Gift from God, as part of His "salvation program?"

Once He gives it to us, we than will and must make a decision to trust in Christ?

or is it part of us, that faith ps due to us still being made in "image of God?"

 

Philippians 2:1
4 Do all things without grumbling or disputing; 15 so that you will [Or become]prove yourselves to be blameless and innocent, children of God above reproach in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you [Or shine]appear as [Or luminaries, stars]lights in the world, 16 holding [Or forth]fast the word of life, so that in the day of Christ I will have reason to glory because I did not run in vain nor toil in vain. 17 But even if I am being poured out as a drink offering upon the sacrifice and service of your faith, I rejoice and share my joy with you all. 18 You too, I urge you, rejoice in the same way and share your joy with me.

1 Peter 1:23
For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

Romans 10:17
Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ.

Romans 10:17
So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

John 6:63
The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit and life.

Saving faith comes from God the Father through the words of Christ.

John 14:24
Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

 

QUESTION: Why Do You Have Faith?

Why do you have love?
Why do you have joy?
Why do we as humans have emotions?
Because God made us in his image and likeness, and that means that we have the ability to believe, trust, have confidence, even as an infant has the capability of trusting their parents more than a stranger.

 

Oh, boy, I really like that. Consider it stolen.

 

Luke, you did exactly what the OP asked not to be done. And you nit-picked my testimony just like I requested you not to do.

Why don't you be consistent and go nit-pick all the scriptures that use a personal pronoun or that give any semblance of credit to man for doing anything and let one tread survive without your hijacking it in your quest to defend your deterministic views?

 

Your tone is very rude here.

I don't have to honor your request.

Where FAITH comes from IS THE ESSENTIAL ISSUE between Calvinism and all other beliefs.

You cannot rightly discuss it without it.

And my opening post had my testimony in it just as well as yours had yours.

But to discuss this subject without the Cal vs Arm controversy is nothing but empty rhetoric.

It is like starting a thread entitled, "How Do Cells Multiply?"

And then in the OP say, "Now I don't want any talk about biology here."

It's not possible.

 

And if you were following the thread correctly you would have noticed I was responding to a brother in Christ who asked about dealing with doubt, not about initial saving faith.

If I had been making a doctrinal declaration about the origin of faith, which I prefaced the post explaining I wasn't, I would have quoted Paul, "Faith comes by hearing..."

I couldn't agree more!

Wait!?! Is it ok if I say "I" couldn't agree more? Or should I say, "God couldn't have causally determined me agree more?"

You can't even have a normal conversation without expecting the deterministic dogma police to pounce...

 

And I think it is very rude to say to me and the author of the OP...

And since we both believe faith comes from God that shouldn't have even been a point of contention brought up in a thread about a fellow Christian who is struggling with doubt, now should it?

 

I said that to you, not the author of the thread.

To him I gave my testimony. I explained that I believe simply because God in his grace caused me to. I couldn't make a case for why I believed what I believed. I just knew that Jesus was God who died for me.

To you I do not think it is rude to not abide by your request to not point out your error.

But your post absolutely bore a very rude tone.

Everyone does not believe that.

 

Be Consistent Luke: Get to nip-picking...

"I love the LORD, for he heard my voice..."
"Then I called on the name of the LORD: "O LORD, save me!"
"I believed; therefore I said, 'I am greatly afflicted.'"
- David

"It is written: "I believed; therefore I have spoken." With that same spirit of faith we also believe and therefore speak."

"I admit that I worship the God of our fathers as a follower of the Way, which they call a sect. I believe everything that agrees with the Law and that is written in the Prophets, and I have the same hope in God as these men, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked. So I strive always to keep my conscience clear before God and man.
- Paul


"Then the man said, "Lord, I believe," and he worshiped him."
- John 9:38 (funny that no one nit-picked him?)


"that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me." -John 17:21

Question: If the term "world" here really means "the elect of the world" why does he say "may believe" rather than "will believe?"

I'll stop there for now, but there are many more. I await your nit-picking of all these quotes, or will you fail to be consistent?

 

More snottiness.

When you use "I" as it pertains to your eternal salvation you'd better be careful- yes.

 

None of those quotes say, "Faith came when I did something"

 

You said it in your actions, which speak louder than words. Actually, God spoke it through your actions as He casually determined you do that....sorry don't want to give you any credit for doing anything that God really did.

YOU did? Are you sure it wasn't God testifying through you?

If I'm in error for saying I believed or I had faith then so are you. We both believe that we believed Luke, we disagree as to the effectuality of God's means in bringing about saving faith....which, wasn't even being discussed, as the OP was about a CHRISTIAN dealing with doubt.

I was blunt in my correction of your rudeness, I'm sorry if that offends you. That wasn't my intent.

Everyone (in this discussion) does believe all good things come from God, including faith. We disagree as to the effectuality of the means by which saving faith comes...something not being discussed in this thread until now.

 

Again, Luke, we are talking about the growth of a Christian's faith, not the origin of saving faith. Please stop with the nip-picking of everything and allow people to have a conversation about real issues without the fear of being pounced on for not meeting your "talking-point" criteria.

Plus, your comment was, "When you use "I" as it pertains to your eternal salvation you'd better be careful," which does apply to these quotes...

 

No you just want to take credit for what God alone does. right here I'll place a smiley face so that I can do as you and say anything I want and get away with it.:thumbs:

Actually...:wavey:

Nope. You said, "Faith came WHEN I..."

I don't say that.

This is not an apology.

A real apology does not come tied to excuses.

You have two options.

You caused yourself to believe somewhat.

Or God caused you to believe.

You believe the former.

 

We're not talking about "people" we're talking about you.

YOU alone bear the brunt of my criticism because you alone remarked that "Faith came when I..." followed by some decision you made and something you yourself did.