QUESTION: Why Do You Have Faith?

[Skandelon]

right here I'll place a smiley face so that I can do as you and say anything I want and get away with it.:thumbs:

Have I broken any rules, Luke? I'm not sure what you beef is. I'm simply pointing out your error as you attempted to do yet you seem to be applying a double standard...???

Nope. You said, "Faith came WHEN I..."

Again, CONTEXT, Luke. We are discussing the growth of faith within a Christian. Please acknowledge that point so I know you understand it.

This is not an apology.

It wasn't meant to be. No apology is needed unless I do something wrong. If anyone should apologize to someone it should be you apologizing to the author of the OP for derailing his thread and then to me for nip-picking me about our views concerning the origin of faith in salvation (which we both agree is "from God) when I was making a statement regarding the growing of one's faith who is already in Christ.

You have two options.

You caused yourself to believe somewhat.

Or God caused you to believe.

You believe the former.

False dichotomy... That has been explained to you countless times so I won't bother doing it again here...

 

[Skandelon]

"that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me." -John 17:21

Question: If the term "world" here really means "the elect of the world" why does he say "may believe" rather than "will believe?"

Could you answer this question for me? Maybe you missed it?

 

[DHK]

Luke:
1. Do you love your wife?

2. Do you love God?

 

[Alive in Christ]

1st...

The reason I have faith is because God has given "...every man who comes into the world"... the ability to respond in faith to the Light they are given, be it the Light of concience, the Light of nature, or the Light of the gosple of Jesus Christ, and I chose faith in Christ. I have never regretted it

More specifically...

God graciously, back in the late 80's, began to stir me, or trouble me, regarding eternity, and my situation regarding that. God then caused a christian to GIVE me a bible, if I promised to read it. I told him I would, and I did. The rest is history.

Specifically, God began to cause conviction in my heart, and He didnt let up. And in the process of time, I realised that I was at a cross roads, and I had a choice to make.

In tears, I realised that I wanted God to live in me the way He clearly lived in the christians who witnessed to me. I wanted a better life here on earth, and eternal life when I die.

I chose to embrace Christ through faith alone, and I have never regretted that decision.

Praise the Lord!

 

[Alive in Christ]

Skandalon....

I couldn't agree more!

Wait!?! Is it ok if I say "I" couldn't agree more? Or should I say, "God couldn't have causally determined me agree more?"

You can't even have a normal conversation without expecting the deterministic dogma police to pounce...

Ha ha ha! It sure seems that way sometimes.

:laugh::laugh:

 

[Luke2427]

Have I broken any rules, Luke? I'm not sure what you beef is. I'm simply pointing out your error as you attempted to do yet you seem to be applying a double standard...???

No. I don't personally care if you are rude or snotty. What bothers me is when you try to regulate or reprimand me for doing the same.

Again, CONTEXT, Luke. We are discussing the growth of faith within a Christian. Please acknowledge that point so I know you understand it.

There is no proper context for a theology that says that "Faith came when I did anything."

It wasn't meant to be. No apology is needed unless I do something wrong.

If it is not meant to be an apology, why did you use the words "... I APOLOGIZE..."???

If anyone should apologize to someone it should be you apologizing to the author of the OP for derailing his thread and then to me for nip-picking me about our views concerning the origin of faith in salvation (which we both agree is "from God) when I was making a statement regarding the growing of one's faith who is already in Christ.

Has deflection been successful for you in the past or something. Because you keep trying to do it. Rather than it being between you and me you keep trying to bring others in on your side.

Can you not stand on your own two feet? Do you need to recruit others by convincing those who might be weak minded enough to fall for such ploys that I am not just attacking you- I am attacking them too???

 

[Luke2427]

Luke:
1. Do you love your wife?

2. Do you love God?

I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

 

[Skandelon]

No. I don't personally care if you are rude or snotty. What bothers me is when you try to regulate or reprimand me for doing the same.

So, you think my tone is too rude when I criticize you for being too rude? I know a way to fix that: Stop being rude.

There is no proper context for a theology that says that "Faith came when I did anything."

So, you don't believe a Christian's faith can grow from experience in living the Christian life? Interesting.

If it is not meant to be an apology, why did you use the words "... I APOLOGIZE..."???

I said, "I'm sorry if that offends you," but I didn't say or do anything wrong.

Has deflection been successful for you in the past or something. Because you keep trying to do it. Rather than it being between you and me you keep trying to bring others in on your side.

Can you not stand on your own two feet? Do you need to recruit others by convincing those who might be weak minded enough to fall for such ploys that I am not just attacking you- I am attacking them too???

:laugh:

The OP asked this not to become a Cal/Arm debate, yet that is where you took it.

I asked you not to nit-pick my testimony because it wasn't meant to be a doctrinal declaration, and you not only nit-picked it but you took something meant to be about faith growing in the lives of believers and made it out to be a doctrinal declaration of my views of the origin of saving faith....which we BOTH acknowledge is "of God." AMAZING!!!

Luke, be objective and honest in our discussions please. You are trying to win a debate way too hard and you make it impossible to have a simple conversation. You have yet to acknowledge that I was speaking about the growth of faith within the life of a Christian who is struggling with doubt. Why won't you make that simple acknowledgement so I know you understand the distinction?

 

[DHK]

I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

You didn't answer my questions.
Let's take one at a time, then.

Do you love your wife?

 

[Luke2427]

So, you think my tone is too rude when I criticize you for being too rude? I know a way to fix that: Stop being rude.

You first- moderator.:wavey:

So, you don't believe a Christian's faith can grow from experience in living the Christian life? Interesting.

Sure it can.

I said, "I'm sorry if that offends you," but I didn't say or do anything wrong.

Well you did. You were rude. Which is fine. Just realize whenever you are rude and snotty you forfeit the right to the high horse you like to ride- that's all I am saying. :love2:

The OP asked this not to become a Cal/Arm debate, yet that is where you took it.

And here you are locked arm in arm with me. Takes two to tango.

What does this post to which I am responding have to do with the OP?

You have high-jacked this thread to reprimand me for high-jacking the thread.

You will never get that high horse back at this rate.

I will ignore the rest of your post because you are trying to play the sympathy card and make yourself sound like a defender of the weak and me out to be a bully. It is playing politics and I won't stoop there if I can avoid it.:love2:

 

[Luke2427]

You didn't answer my questions.
Let's take one at a time, then.

Do you love your wife?

The verse is an answer to your question which is more than I usually give you.

I will not converse with you so long as you regulate me.

If you want to commit to not moderating me I will converse with you.

Until then, I will ignore you.

 

[DHK]

The verse is an answer to your question which is more than I usually give you.

I will not converse with you so long as you regulate me.

If you want to commit to not moderating me I will converse with you.

Until then, I will ignore you.

Normally, when I debate someone I stay out of the moderating, especially now that there are two active moderators on here.

In regards to your answer, is that the way you would answer your wife, after coming home from a hard day's work, and she asks you: "Honey do you love me?"

Would you really answer her that way?

 

[Skandelon]

You first- moderator.:wavey:

Silly Luke I can't stop critiquing your rudeness unless you stop being rude, and this has nothing to do with my being a moderator. I'm not moderating your posts as they do not rise to the level of "rule breaking." They are just rude.

Sure it can.

Good, so then we are in agreement. Now we can stop this insanity. I accept your apology.

And here you are locked arm in arm with me. Takes two to tango.

You have finally made a valid point. I did, as they like to say, "feed the troll," for which I now regret.

But, in my defense, I only continually point back to the OP and its original point regarding the doubt of a fellow Christian so as to correct the derailing comments you erroneously introduced.

So, I'll correct that mistake now by reposting the OP and leaving it at that. I hope you will do the same...

I want to just start off that this is not meant to be a Calvinism/Arminianism debate. I am not asking if God gave you the faith. What I am asking is why do you have the faith you have? Is it something you just know to be true? Is it because your life has changed since receiving Christ? Do you have faith due more to the logic behind the gospel accounts? I got to thinking the other day about faith, and why I believe Jesus Christ is God and why I know He is surely the Way, Truth and Life. To me, it is just a truth I cannot deny. I feel insecure sometimes because logic (or at least the "logic" of the world) creeps in and says prove it! I guess part of it is the difficulty of feeling close to the real physical Jesus, visualizing Paul preaching to the Gentiles. I guess this is why Jesus said that those who have not seen but yet believe are truly blessed. Anyhow, back to the question. What do you think is the reason behind the faith you have? I hope this post makes sense. Thanks in advance for the replies.

 

[Luke2427]

Silly Luke I can't stop critiquing your rudeness unless you stop being rude, and this has nothing to do with my being a moderator. I'm not moderating your posts as they do not rise to the level of "rule breaking." They are just rude.

If you are critiquing them rudely then you are just as guilty, Skan.

Good, so then we are in agreement. Now we can stop this insanity. I accept your apology.
You have finally made a valid point. I did, as they like to say, "feed the troll," for which I now regret.

The phrase "you FINALLY MADe A GOOD POINT..." is insulting and snotty.

You can't help it, can you?

But, in my defense, I only continually point back to the OP and its original point regarding the doubt of a fellow Christian so as to correct the derailing comments you erroneously introduced.

You can't just apologize either, can you? You have to make excuses which makes it no real apology at all.

So, I'll correct that mistake now by reposting the OP and leaving it at that. I hope you will do the same...

We'll see how you do from here. I'll consider following your lead after this post.

 

[Luke2427]

Normally, when I debate someone I stay out of the moderating, especially now that there are two active moderators on here.

In regards to your answer, is that the way you would answer your wife, after coming home from a hard day's work, and she asks you: "Honey do you love me?"

Would you really answer her that way?

That's no commitment. I debate peers- not superiors.

You've rebuked me in the middle of our exchanges before.

Until you commit to be a peer during a discussion, I will not converse with you.

 

[Skandelon]

You can't help it, can you?

According to the theological system you so vehemently defend on this board; the answer to that question is: "No I can't help it." God has causally determined my nature and thus my desires and I MUST choose according to those desires and God's eternal decree. So, NO, if your dogma is correct, I cannot help it. Why do you ask?

You can't just apologize either, can you?

I guess not, for all the same reasons stated above.

We'll see how you do from here. I'll consider following your lead after this post.

Don't you mean "God's lead?" :laugh:

 

[DHK]

That's no commitment. I debate peers- not superiors.

You've rebuked me in the middle of our exchanges before.

Until you commit to be a peer during a discussion, I will not converse with you.

Yes, Luke that was a commitment. I hereby, so do, with all my intent, forthwith, thereunto, whereby, according to the foresaid and the aforementioned duly posted and typed, and thereby copyrighted material, yet not owned by myself but the board, herewith commit.

 

[Luke2427]

According to the theological system you so vehemently defend on this board; the answer to that question is: "No I can't help it." God has causally determined my nature and thus my desires and I MUST choose according to those desires and God's eternal decree. So, NO, if your dogma is correct, I cannot help it. Why do you ask?

At least you are coming to terms with it.

I guess not, for all the same reasons stated above.

As long as you see your error, I've done my job.

Don't you mean "God's lead?" :laugh:

See the laughy face was meant to be insulting, which is perfectly fine by me.:love2:

I'm just pointing out that you have a problem.:wavey:

You seem now to be coming to terms with this and I am thankful.:love2:

 

[Luke2427]

Yes, Luke that was a commitment. I hereby, so do, with all my intent, forthwith, thereunto, whereby, according to the foresaid and the aforementioned duly posted and typed, and thereby copyrighted material, yet not owned by myself but the board, herewith commit.

Almost there. If you will put the exact words in a single post along with WHAT you commit to so that I can archive the post and use it in the future if the need arises I will engage you in discussion.

 

[DHK]

Almost there. If you will put the exact words in a single post along with WHAT you commit to so that I can archive the post and use it in the future if the need arises I will engage you in discussion.

When you stood before the altar, and that pastor asked you:
Do you take this woman to be your lawfully wedded wife, etc., etc.,

Did you answer:
"I do." Or, did you answer: "I do take this woman to be my lawfully wedded wife, etc., etc.....

In other words aren't you being a bit unreasonable here, especially in light of previous words "That was a commitment."