Question women and dresses

[PreachTREE]

Originally posted by Petrel:
I dress up a bit for church, but not excessively because I think it's unnecessary and I don't want to make those who can't afford nice clothes feel out of place.

Good that you take others feelings into consideration. But, we do things for God not men.

 

[PreachTREE]

The custom of contemporary fashion rules of semi-formal attire. 200 years ago, I'd have worn legings and dickie. That would not be appropriate today, neither to see the President, or for church attire, though it does satisfy the requisite of modesty.

You did nothing but prove my point. Modesty does not change. Fashion does.

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by PreachTREE:
Good that you take others feelings into consideration. But, we do things for God not men.

True, but if dressing up too much makes others in church feel self-conscious, uncomfortable, or out of place, then we're dressing up for ourselves, and not for God.

You did nothing but prove my point. Modesty does not change. Fashion does.

I've never said anything to the contrary. Modesty does not change. Fashion changes, and what we consider modest changes. But modesty does not change.

Let me give you a similar scriptural example. We're not to use abusive languge. Yet some words we use today are considered abusive, that were not in the past, and some that were abusive in the past are not abusive today. The mandate to not use bad language does not change. However, what we consider to qualify as bad language changes. Language itself changes. But the scriptural mandate to refrain from bad language does not change.

 

[PreachTREE]

Originally posted by Johnv:
There's an old saying" When in Rome, do as a roman. When I'm worhipping with a group on Christians on a Hawaiian beach, I will do as they.

if a group of christians were naked in hawaii worshipping on a beach, would you also come naked? again, a group of christians wherever is not my authority, God is. God deserves you being dressed the best.

 

[Petrel]

No one here is advocating nakedness. Everyone agrees that we need to wear at least some clothing!

 

[PreachTREE]

bathing suits are not nakedness? especially the ones that cover the bare minimum?

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by PreachTREE:
if a group of christians were naked in hawaii worshipping on a beach, would you also come naked?

No. Bearing of genitals is an absolute that I would not cross. But, to be honest, I cannot find any scripture that requires this as a mandate. There are places in the world where a bare chest on women is not considered being naked, but a bare back is. If I were there, I would not bear my back.

As for being naked in Hawaii, they do not consider public nudity socially acceptible. So saith two coworkers of mine who used to live in Oahu. But, if, say, it were acceptible, and I were invoted to worship with them, I would ask if they mind if I keep my shirt on, because I feel uncomfortable without it. Their nudity would not make me feel unconfortable of it was the social norm.

again, a group of christians wherever is not my authority, God is. God deserves you being dressed the best.

I own a very nice tux. Should I wear that to church? It's the best attire I've got.

Originally posted by PreachTREE:
bathing suits are not nakedness? especially the ones that cover the bare minimum?

There are some exceptions, but, no, I don't consider a bathing suit "nakedness" as a rule. If, however, you're of the mindset that any bikini equates to nakedness, then we'll never see eye to eye.

When I was in Maui attending church on the beach, no one was wearing a bathing suit that the reasonable person would consider "showing nakedness". There was one girl who had a string bikini top, but it was adequately covering her breasts.

 

[PreachTREE]

Originally posted by Johnv:
I've never said anything to the contrary. Modesty does not change. Fashion changes, and what we consider modest changes. But modesty does not change.

What the world deems as modest changes. We should be separate from the world.

 

[PreachTREE]

so John, tell me....what is an example of immodest dressing?

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by PreachTREE:
What the world deems as modest changes. We should be separate from the world.

True, but I believe you're misapplying the verse to define your personal view of what constitutes scriptural modesty.

 

[PreachTREE]

Originally posted by Johnv:

As for being naked in Hawaii, they do not consider public nudity socially acceptible. So saith two coworkers of mine who used to live in Oahu. But, if, say, it were acceptible, and I were invoted to worship with them, I would ask if they mind if I keep my shirt on, because I feel uncomfortable without it. Their nudity would not make me feel unconfortable of it was the social norm.

but since you consider their feelings you would be naked if wearing a shirt made them feel self-conscious, uncomfortable, out of place.

 

[PreachTREE]

so what is scriptural modesty? "you can wear whatever you want as long as your community is okay with it"????

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by PreachTREE:
so John, tell me....what is an example of immodest dressing?

Immodesty is something that is offensive to sexual mores in conduct or appearance. Immodest dress is that which draws unreasonable sexual attention to the wearer. The words stems from the latin immodestus, which means "not in moderation".

The rule of what qualifies as immodest changes over time. I think the problem with society today is not that our society doesn't view some current styles as immodest, but that some in society are saying the immodesty is acceptible. In other words, dressing for the purpose of beinging unnecessary sexual attention to oneself.

so what is scriptural modesty?

Scriptural modesty in dress is wearing attire in a manner which does not bring unreasonable sexual or otherwise immoral attention to oneself.

but since you consider their feelings you would be naked if wearing a shirt made them feel self-conscious, uncomfortable, out of place.

Good question. If adhering to their standards of dress made me feel reasonebly uncomfortable, and if my adhering to my own standards of dress made them feel reasonably uncomfortable, then I'd likely refrain. My unconforableness does not equate to a scriptural judgement upon them, and their uncomfortableness does not equate to a scriptural judgement upon me.

 

[Petrel]

Originally posted by Johnv:
I think the problem with society today is not that our society doesn't view some current styles as immodest, but that some in society are saying the immodesty is acceptible. In other words, dressing for the purpose of beinging unnecessary sexual attention to oneself.

Well said!

 

[PreachTREE]

bathing suits dont draw sexual attention?
modesty does not change for the millionth time. the world is now seeing homosexuality, abortion, divorce, sex, drugs, etc. as a norm. i will not change with them.

 

[Petrel]

So do you wear head-to-toe robes and does your wife wear a veil?

And in my opinion there are plenty of bathing suits that don't draw sexual attention.

 

[PreachTREE]

Culture is not the authority in our decision making. God is!!! Culture should not shape modesty. Modesty should shape culture!

 

[PreachTREE]

Originally posted by Petrel:
So do you wear head-to-toe robes and does your wife wear a veil?

no. if it were our current fashion we would.

Originally posted by Petrel:

And in my opinion there are plenty of bathing suits that don't draw sexual attention.

which ones are those? the ones that are made out of buffalo hide? lol

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by PreachTREE:
bathing suits dont draw sexual attention?

To the average person, the typical bathing suit does not draw sexual attention. To the average person, there are some bathing suits that do. To the person with a dirty mind, just about every bathing suit will draw sexual attention.

modesty does not change for the millionth time

For the millionth time, I never said it did.

the world is now seeing homosexuality, abortion, divorce, sex, drugs, etc. as a norm. i will not change with them.

Completely different topics. When an abortion is done to save the mother, it is permissible. When a divorce is done due to a violation of the marital covenant, it is permissible. When sex is engaged in by persons in a marital covenant, it is permissible. When drugs are used to assist in healing, they are permissible. When attire is worn that does not being unreasonable sexual attention to the wearer, it is permissible.

 

[Petrel]

It wasn't just a matter of fashion, in Jesus' time women wore head to toe robes because it was considered immodest to show their legs and arms.

You say that modesty does not change. If so, it should still be immodest to show one's legs and arms.