questions about the church

bapmon,

What then is the difference between those who comprise the city of God and those who are the nations walking in the light of it (Rev. 23:24)? If the universal church idea is correct, there should be one big city and no nations at all.

 

why?

I still don't get it, 4study.

I guess Im talking more about being the body of Christ?

 

IMO and Just for the record : Both, but the word "universal" is not a precise enough word (if indeed there is one) to describe the Body of true born-again believers (past, present and future).

but for the benefit of the debate it will do for now.

I see the weight of Scripture on the side of the "universal" Church.

Matthew 16
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Ephesians 5
29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:
30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

Christ has One Body, one Bride, many members (assemblies).

HankD

 

Thank you Hank,

my brain is just not right today, I should probably just read more for now. lol

 

bapmom,

I suppose it depends who you believe will comprise the city of God. In my mind, the city of God and the body of Christ go hand in hand. City of God => Lamb's wife => body of Christ.

 

4study,

I don't think Ive given it enough thought yet on that to give you a response that would do your question justice.

I have come across the idea in reading my Bible, but its been one of those things which I figured would be sorted out in the end. I will understand perfectly one day, just not this day!

I just don't want to come across as believing in some sort of "spooky" universal church that all religions are a part of. Perhaps sometimes I use the words interchangeably that some people take objection to......church and body of Christ, and what we will be considered in Heaven versus what we are now.

 

HankD,

The words "one" and "universal" are not descriptive of the same aspect. "One" describes cardinality or uniqueness. "Universal" describes the composition.

If the church is universal, there are no qualities of relationship (i.e. everyone has the same kind of relationshipt with God). This is why I say there should be one big city in Revelation and no nations "walking in the light of it".

 

4study,

are you a "baptist brider"?

 

bapmom,

What's a "baptist brider"?

 

Ephesians 5:25
"Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her,..."

I believe it does.

Bro Tony

 

A distinction without a difference. Any local fellowship that has membership requirements that dont include being born again into the body of Christ--the church, is not a biblical church. They are just another religious organization.

Bro Tony

 

To which local church was Jesus referring to here?

Matthew 16:18 (New King James Version)

18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.

Bro Tony

 

4study,

baptist brider....to be extremely general and brief.....the belief that only those who are members of a local baptist church are in actuality a part of the "bride of Christ." All others CAN be saved through belief in Christ, and have real salvation, they just are not a part of the "bride."

I believe they also differentiate between the "true" body of Christ and the "church"

 

While the word only in your response causes me to somewhat agree with you, because I do not hold that all believers in all ages are the church. It is also clear that Jesus was talking to and about the church in these verses. And not only to a local fellowship.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 (New King James Version)

16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.


Bro Tony

 

Bro Tony,

I think you're insinuating this verse supports the "universal" idea. Yet Jesus is saying nothing here concerning the church's composition. For me, the problem with the concept of a "universal" church is the composition of the body (i.e. all believers are members of it).

I think we also have to be aware that there is a difference between talking about the church as "a body" as opposed to whether it's "local" or "universal".

 

bapmom,

Yes, I know what you're talking about. No, I'm not a "baptist brider".

 

k, just wondering.

thanks, 4study.