Questions about the Sabbath of the LORD thy God, this subject is interesting don't you think so?

[loDebar]

Mark 2:27-28. Hebrews 4, Revelation 14:6-12, Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11.

You can also look at Isaiah 66:22-23 besides the ones already listed.

Consider the queen of Sheba and Solomon, then fast forward to the NT with the Ethiopian Eunuch in Acts 8. You can look at Exodus 16-20 and see that a 'mixed multitude' came out of Egypt with the children of Israel. All of them were at Mt. Sinai - together. The Ten Commandments are for all mankind, Ecc. 12:13-14, see also what Paul said about the Law of God. You can consider in the 4th commandment itself, it directly references the 'stranger'. You can see in the OT, in Isaiah 56:1-8, being fulfilled in the NT, Acts and so on. You can read in Isaiah 66:22-23 that 'all flesh' of mankind will worship together on the seventh day the sabbath of the Lord in the New Heavens and New Earth. You can read in the book of Deuteronomy chapter 4, that those who received what was given, were to take it and show the other nations that were still on probation that they might live according to God's ways. You can trace the sabbath from Genesis 2 all the way through to Abraham and again through to Moses. You can read in the NT in the book of Acts of the Gentile believers keeping sabbath before even Paul showed up and after Paul left. You can read in Acts 14:15-16, when Paul speaking to the Gentiles, quoting directly from the 4th commandment Exodus 20:11 in asking them to repent. It is everywhere.

All that is in the relationship with the Hebrews

 

[loDebar]

My Eighth question:

In three places in scripture, it specifically says, "ten commandments" (Exo. 34:28; Deut. 4:13, 10:4 (good buddy)), does the scripture in any place, from Gen. to Rev., ever specifically say 'nine commandments'?

My Ninth question:

Is sin known by the Law (Rom. 3:20, 7:7; Exo. 24:12), the Ten Commandments, to this day?

Sin is known without the Law,
Rom 2:12

¶
For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

Rom 3:20
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Rom 3:21¶
But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Rom 3:22
Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference

The Law was given to the Hebrews to preserve them as a nation for the Messiah to come and bring Salvation to the world.
The Law was not given to you.

 

[Alofa Atu]

A person has once said, "... No one can obey the law ..."

So my question is, Did Jesus obey the law? or Did Jesus not obey the law?

Followup, If Jesus did obey the law, then why cannot others in like manner as He did? or contrary If Jesus did not obey the law, how then can He be the Saviour from transgression of the law (sin)?

Further follow up, If it is truly that God gave a law that no one can obey, is that a Just God, or an unjust god? However, if God is a Just God, then there is no law that God would give that cannot be obeyed, correct?

 

[Alofa Atu]

All that is in the relationship with the Hebrews

Exo_12:38 And a mixed multitude went up also with them; and flocks, and herds, even very much cattle.

Queen of Sheba wasn't Hebrew, neither the Ethiopian Eunuch, neither all of the Gentile proseylytes. The Mixed Multitudes weren't Hebrew. Adam (Mark 2:27) wasn't Hebrew. The Gentiles that Paul spake to weren't Hebrew or Jew. The people in Isaiah 56 also included the stranger. Isaiah 66 speaks of "all flesh", not just those of Hebrew descent. The "people of God" in Hebrews 4 aren't only of the Jewish population. The message of the first, second and third angels of Revelation 14, which is citing the 4th commandment goes to all the world. Why do you obfuscate? Why deceive your own self like that?

 

[Alofa Atu]

Sin is known without the Law,
Rom 2:12

¶
For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

Romans 2:12 doesn't say, neither imply, "Sin in known without the law", it plainly says:

Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

It says that "as many have sinned without law shall also perish".

Otherwise you get contradiction:

Rom_7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

The scripture is clear on what sin is:

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

The Law is the Law of God. It is the standard.

 

[Alofa Atu]

he Law was not given to you.

You must have a really small 'bible', since you would have to throw out all the OT, and most of the NT, since it was for the 'jews/hebrews' (as you put it).

Jesus wasn't for you then. He is the Messiah of the 'jews' (as you put it).

What rubbish. Carry your faulty logic to its end.

 

[loDebar]

Exo_12:38 And a mixed multitude went up also with them; and flocks, and herds, even very much cattle.

Queen of Sheba wasn't Hebrew, neither the Ethiopian Eunuch, neither all of the Gentile proseylytes. The Mixed Multitudes weren't Hebrew. Adam (Mark 2:27) wasn't Hebrew. The Gentiles that Paul spake to weren't Hebrew or Jew. The people in Isaiah 56 also included the stranger. Isaiah 66 speaks of "all flesh", not just those of Hebrew descent. The "people of God" in Hebrews 4 aren't only of the Jewish population. The message of the first, second and third angels of Revelation 14, which is citing the 4th commandment goes to all the world. Why do you obfuscate? Why deceive your own self like that?

The Law was given to the Hebrews, Hebrews is a letter to the Hebrews, Chapter 4

Adam is not mentioned in Mark 2 27. Man needs a day of rest

Why do you claim the Sabbath as a commandment to the world?

 

[loDebar]

You must have a really small 'bible', since you would have to throw out all the OT, and most of the NT, since it was for the 'jews/hebrews' (as you put it).

Jesus wasn't for you then. He is the Messiah of the 'jews' (as you put it).

What rubbish. Carry your faulty logic to its end.

The OT is not to you but we benefit from it, The Law cannot save, your claim cannot save, We do not have to keep the 100's of Laws intended for another people , The Temple is gone, sacrifices cannot be made Jesus replace and finished the Law.We are from the bondage of the Law.

The purpose of the Law ended at the Cross. Why do you still think it necessary?

He is the Messiah and our Saviour

 

[loDebar]

T

Romans 2:12 doesn't say, neither imply, "Sin in known without the law", it plainly says:

Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

It says that "as many have sinned without law shall also perish".

Otherwise you get contradiction:

Rom_7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

The scripture is clear on what sin is:

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

The Law is the Law of God. It is the standard.

sin is sin shown to be sin by the Law .

Sin existed before the Law of Moses was given. You try to cover yourself by extending a law that does not apply to yiu
It is legalism as most SDAs are relying on their self to keep a list. of don'ts
Christians serve out of Love not rules

 

[Walter]

Matthew 12:1 At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn and to eat. 2 But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.

What were the Pharisees talking about in respect to the sabbath day?

Exodus 16:25 And Moses said, Eat that to day; for to day is a sabbath unto the Lord: to day ye shall not find it in the field. 26 Six days ye shall gather it; but on the seventh day, which is the sabbath, in it there shall be none. 27 And it came to pass, that there went out some of the people on the seventh day for to gather, and they found none. 28 And the Lord said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?

And so the disciples were gathering food to eat by plucking the ears of corn on the sabbath day, thus in the eyes of the Pharisees, His disciples were profaning the sabbath.

 

[Alofa Atu]

The Law was given to the Hebrews

Define "Law". Are you referring to the Ten Commandments or Torah. Be specific.

Hebrews is a letter to the Hebrews, Chapter 4

If only you read the other parts of the Bible together.

Gal_3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

Was Abraham "Hebrew"?

You do know that Hebrews speaks of Jesus as our (the Christians') Great High Priest above right? What are you going to do, throw that out? You do know what else is in Hebrews right? The Hall of Faith? and Hebrews 12:1-2, speaking about Jesus being the Author and Finisher of our Faith? By your logic, that doesn't apply to you - ever.

You will never be finished, and you can point to no verse in scripture for you (by your logic) that says you ever will, and in fact, you do not even have Jesus (by your logic), since He is the covenant given to the House of Israel/Judah - Isaiah 49:8, etc.

The New Covenant (Jeremiah 31:31-34) and found in Hebrews 8 & 10 is only for who then? (By your logic)?

Any Gentiles at the last supper?

Your theology undoes your own salvation.

Adam is not mentioned in Mark 2 27.

Umm, who then is "the man" (singular) in Mark 2:27, in the context of "the sabbath" (definite article, not indefinite) that was "made" (referring to Genesis, not Exodus).

Man needs a day of rest

Says who? You just told me that the sabbath (rest) was only for Jews/Hebrews, not Gentiles. You just told me that all those other verses I cited were for Hebrews/Jews and their Messiah, having nothing to do with you.

So, by your own logic, where do you get the idea that you need "a" (indefinite) day of rest? What scripture? Will you cite me a verse out of the OT, which you already told me wasn't for me? Will you cite a NT text citing an OT text, which also wasn't written for me (your logic)? Will you cite me a letter written to a specific people group, such as Galatia, Corinth, et? They aren't me or my nationality (your logic).

Just shot yourself in the foot there me thinks. Before you reload to take aim again, you might want to move your other foot.

Why do you claim the Sabbath as a commandment to the world?

God said so:

1Jn_3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

1Co_7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

1Jn_2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

... (etc) ...

1Jn_5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

1Jn_5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

2Jn_1:6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

Rev_14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Rev_22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

 

[Alofa Atu]

...The Law cannot save ...

I do keep telling you that.

 

[Alofa Atu]

...The Temple is gone ...

No, only the earthly temple in Jerusalem on earth, the real original Temple still exists, along with the real and original Ark of the covenant, along with the real and original Ten Commandments therein (Moses only got a copy (of the Law of God) and a type (Tabernacle)):

Heb_8:2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.

Psa_11:4 The LORD is in his holy temple, the LORD'S throne is in heaven: his eyes behold, his eyelids try, the children of men.

Rev_11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.
Rev_14:17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.
Rev_15:5 And after that I looked, and, behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened:
Rev_16:17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

Any of those for you?

 

[Alofa Atu]

The OT is not to you but we benefit from it, The Law cannot save, your claim cannot save, We do not have to keep the 100's of Laws intended for another people , The Temple is gone, sacrifices cannot be made Jesus replace and finished the Law.We are from the bondage of the Law.

The purpose of the Law ended at the Cross. Why do you still think it necessary?

He is the Messiah and our Saviour

Saviour? from what? You just told me the laws of the OT don't apply to you. Since they do not apply to you, how then can you be responsible for any 'violation' thereof? You just told me that the Ten Commandments were for the Hebrews/Jews. So you just told me you don't need a Saviour from covetousness, etc.

You "benefit" from something not for you, not written to you and doesn't apply to you?

Sin is the bondage, never God's Law (10C or any other aspect of the OT):

Act_8:23 For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity.

2Pe_2:19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.

You say 'works' is the bondage. Only in a certain sense. 'works' without 'faith' is the bondage, because whatsoever is not of faith is sin and without faith it is impossible to please God. Yet works that come from faith is never bondage. See James 2. See Hebrews 11-12., etc. See also:

Heb_4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

Rom_1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

You say a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. No doubt, but that is not what we are talking about is it?

God's Law (10C) did not end at the Cross, and there is not a single verse which says it either. That would be the same as saying God's own character ended at the cross.

 

[Alofa Atu]

...Christians serve out of Love not rules

Rules exist in love, otherwise it is not love, but emotional anarchy. A Christian obeys God in love. Any person that claims to love God and does not obey Him, has just made themselves a hypocrite in that thing. It is the "Lord, Lord ..." religion. it is the religion of Judas. A kiss with the mouth, but the heart was far from Jesus. The saying, so close and yet so far away applies here. 1 John speaks about all of this.

You say "serve". Which must mean you acknowledge God as King,Master,Lord, and thus He must have a throne, a Law by which God rules His Kingdom, Dominion and servants.

I do not serve God by a list of rules. I serve God in love by obeying His rules/commandments.

 

[Alofa Atu]

Matthew 12:1 At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn and to eat. 2 But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.

What were the Pharisees talking about in respect to the sabbath day?

Exodus 16:25 And Moses said, Eat that to day; for to day is a sabbath unto the Lord: to day ye shall not find it in the field. 26 Six days ye shall gather it; but on the seventh day, which is the sabbath, in it there shall be none. 27 And it came to pass, that there went out some of the people on the seventh day for to gather, and they found none. 28 And the Lord said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?

And so the disciples were gathering food to eat by plucking the ears of corn on the sabbath day, thus in the eyes of the Pharisees, His disciples were profaning the sabbath.

You just answered your own question by saying, "... thus in the eyes of the Pharisees ..." which were "blind" leading the "blind". The Pharisees had a wrong understanding of the Law of God, and the sabbath in particular. Jesus used their own argument against them, but using their faulty standard to judge them. Thus, Jesus told them (Pharisees) that the disciples did not actually break any of God's Law (innocent), though in the Pharisees corrupted mind they had. Read carefully. The Pharisees wrongly accused, based upon their faulty standard. Jesus then used that faulty standard to show them their error. Do you want the long or short version if you desire to go into more detail on this?

 

[loDebar]

I do keep telling you that.

Then why do you insist on keeping it?

You made up the Law of God so you can keep it

 

[loDebar]

4:30 AM? where are you?

 

[loDebar]

Rules exist in love, otherwise it is not love, but emotional anarchy. A Christian obeys God in love. Any person that claims to love God and does not obey Him, has just made themselves a hypocrite in that thing. It is the "Lord, Lord ..." religion. it is the religion of Judas. A kiss with the mouth, but the heart was far from Jesus. The saying, so close and yet so far away applies here. 1 John speaks about all of this.

You say "serve". Which must mean you acknowledge God as King,Master,Lord, and thus He must have a throne, a Law by which God rules His Kingdom, Dominion and servants.

I do not serve God by a list of rules. I serve God in love by obeying His rules/commandments.

Laws, commandments whats the difference ?

We serve because of Love

 

[Alofa Atu]

4:30 AM? where are you?

Google my name.