Questions about the Sabbath of the LORD thy God, this subject is interesting don't you think so?

[Alofa Atu]

It has been said by some in response to does a Christian need to fulfill the Law of God:

"We don't need to. You really think we have to. The Scripture says very plainly we don't and can't."

What that response does not understand, is that Paul, under inspiration of the Holy Ghost, said:

Rom_8:4 That the righteousness (right-doing, not merely right-saying) of the law (Ten Commandments, as per Rom. 7:7,10,11,12,13,14,21,22,25) might be fulfilled (to carry out to the deepest levels, so completing the commandment in spirit and in truth, thus in heart and in deed) in us (those who claim to follow Christ, Jhn. 1:29,36, who did no sin, 1 Pet. 2:22), who walk (that is, to live and do) not after the flesh (which transgresses the Law of God; Rom. 8:7), but after the Spirit (who wrote the Ten Commandments, Exo. 31:18, Deut. 9:10; Luk. 11:20; Mat. 12:28; for the Law of God, the Ten Commandments are all, entirely, wholly, completely spiritual and not a single part carnal in the least letter, jot or tittle, Rom. 7:14).

To any person who says a Christian does not need to 'fulfil the law' (Ten Commandments) of God through the grace bestowed in Christ Jesus, by the strength provided at Calvary, effective by the Holy Spirit, is, indeed verily, a transgressor of said Law, Jam. 2:10 and is not in their right state of mind, for they are yet carnal, not understanding even the basics of salvation, "from their sins" (Mat. 1:21; 1 Jhn. 3:4).

The issue is, that so many (wrongly) think that the Law (Ten Commandments) is/are abolished, or that the Law of God (Ten Commandments) is the old covenant, but neither is the case.

To abolish the Law of God would be to abolish His own perfect character, Exo. 33:12-23, 34:1-9, 20:5-7. In fact, that is exactly what satan tried to do, and the leaders of the Jewish nation, who wrongly hated the character of God, but all that he manged to crucify was the flesh, not the Spirit (for spirit hath not flesh and bones; Luk. 24:39).

Rom_7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

All who do 'not' "know", are not part of the "we" that Paul spake of.

Therefore, when Paul said, "That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.", what Law is he referring to in context, and what does the word 'fulfil' mean there?

 

[Alofa Atu]

Another question:

Since the sabbath is a "sign", between whom and whom is this "sign", and secondarily, how long is the "sign" to be for between the whom and whom?

 

[Alofa Atu]

Another question:

Since the sabbath is a "sign", between whom and whom is this "sign", and secondarily, how long is the "sign" to be for between the whom and whom?

A person might say in answer to the question

"... the Scripture says between God and Israel and his children. ...", and then continue to say something like, "... Jesus isn't Israel. ..."

The first part of the statement is true:

Exo 31:12 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
Exo 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.
Exo 31:14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
Exo 31:15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
Exo 31:16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
Exo 31:17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.
Exo 31:18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.

But is the second part of the response true?

Mat 2:13 And when they were departed, behold, the angel of the Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there until I bring thee word: for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him.
Mat 2:14 When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt:
Mat 2:15 And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.

Mat 2:19 But when Herod was dead, behold, an angel of the Lord appeareth in a dream to Joseph in Egypt,
Mat 2:20 Saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and go into the land of Israel: for they are dead which sought the young child's life.
Mat 2:21 And he arose, and took the young child and his mother, and came into the land of Israel.

Whom is Matthew, under inspiration of the Holy Ghost directly citing?

Hos 11:1 When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.

Who then is the "child", that was "called ... out of Egypt", and whose "son" is he, and what was the name of this "son"?

Exo_4:22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:

But was God merely talking about OT peoples, named from their ancestor Jacob? or was God speaking about a higher firstborn, a greater son, who overcame all things?

Joh_16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

Rev_3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Who is this 'overcomer'? Who is this 'Prince with God'? Who then is this "son"? Well scripture calls this "son" the "firstborn". Who then is this "firstborn"?

Rev 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
Rev 12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
Rev 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
Rev 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

Rom_8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Col_1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col_1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Heb_12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

Luk_2:7 And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn.

Mat_1:25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.

From scripture, we find that Jesus is Israel, the real firstborn, the real overcomer, the real 'prince with God', the real "son" who was "called ... out of Egypt".

Therefore, the holy sabbath of the LORD thy God, the 7th day rest of God, is a "sign" between the Father (s' abba' owth) and the Son, for ever, sealed by the Holy Ghost, right?

 

[loDebar]

The Law is complete,, finished

Rom 10:4

For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth



Samoa, well there is your problem, you fell of the earth, Almost Un American, but good football players

 

[loDebar]

Another question:

Since the sabbath is a "sign", between whom and whom is this "sign", and secondarily, how long is the "sign" to be for between the whom and whom?

Where is that verse?

 

[Alofa Atu]

The Law is complete,, finished

Rom 10:4

For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth

It says, "for righteousness". The word "end" also doesn't mean 'abolished' in this context. It means the goal. Christ Jesus is the living demonstration of the Law of God (Ten Commandments) lived out. His life is the standard of living in loving obedience. Hence:

Luk 4:14 And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about.
Luk 4:15 And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all.
Luk 4:16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
Luk 4:17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,
Luk 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
Luk 4:19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
Luk 4:20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.
Luk 4:21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.
Luk 4:22 And all bare him witness, and wondered at the gracious words which proceeded out of his mouth. And they said, Is not this Joseph's son?

Jesus Christ, the most Holy Spirit filled man, preaches the gospel upon the sabbath, to bring healing, restoration, light and life back to those in sickness of sin (1 John 3:4), degraded by the pollutants of selfishness, sitting (not standing upright in righteousness) in darkness (the Law of God is a lamp, Light) and dead in trespasses and in sins of self-righteousness.

Notice the "gracious" (that's grace) words of said Gospel. The very first instance, being upon the sabbath of God, giving 'rest' back to those in the bondage of faithless-works.

Samoa, well there is your problem, you fell of the earth, Almost Un American, but good football players

Wow, that's bigoted. Football is competition, pain, drugs, suffering, nakedness, uplifting self, idolatry, playing with 'pig-skin', and a counterfeit worship service. It is the devil's system.

 

[Alofa Atu]

Where is that verse?

I cited it here - Questions about the Sabbath of the LORD thy God, this subject is interesting don't you think so?

 

[loDebar]

I cited it here - Questions about the Sabbath of the LORD thy God, this subject is interesting don't you think so?

You cannot keep the 613 Laws from

It says, "for righteousness". The word "end" also doesn't mean 'abolished' in this context. It means the goal. Christ Jesus is the living demonstration of the Law of God (Ten Commandments) lived out. His life is the standard of living in loving obedience. Hence:

Luk 4:14 And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about.
Luk 4:15 And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all.
Luk 4:16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
Luk 4:17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,
Luk 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
Luk 4:19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
Luk 4:20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.
Luk 4:21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.
Luk 4:22 And all bare him witness, and wondered at the gracious words which proceeded out of his mouth. And they said, Is not this Joseph's son?

Jesus Christ, the most Holy Spirit filled man, preaches the gospel upon the sabbath, to bring healing, restoration, light and life back to those in sickness of sin (1 John 3:4), degraded by the pollutants of selfishness, sitting (not standing upright in righteousness) in darkness (the Law of God is a lamp, Light) and dead in trespasses and in sins of self-righteousness.

Notice the "gracious" (that's grace) words of said Gospel. The very first instance, being upon the sabbath of God, giving 'rest' back to those in the bondage of faithless-works.

Wow, that's bigoted. Football is competition, pain, drugs, suffering, nakedness, uplifting self, idolatry, playing with 'pig-skin', and a counterfeit worship service. It is the devil's system.

wow, first Jesus was God in the flesh .period

secondly Gal 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

The Law is fulfilled and the purpose is complete

Thirdly, 191 Samoans have played in the NFL how is this bigoted? I did not have anything to do with it. What else is Samoa known for?

 

[Walter]

You cannot keep the 613 Laws from


wow, first Jesus was God in the flesh .period

secondly Gal 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

The Law is fulfilled and the purpose is complete

Thirdly, 191 Samoans have played in the NFL how is this bigoted? I did not have anything to do with it. What else is Samoa known for?

An SDA accusing Christians of being bigoted . . . that is rich!!! Here is a good story about an SDA that realized that Sabboth keeping wasn't what Jesus had in mind:

A Seventh-day Adventist's Long Way Home - The Coming Home Network

 

[Adonia]

An SDA accusing Christians of being bigoted . . . that is rich!!! Here is a good story about an SDA that realized that Sabboth keeping wasn't what Jesus had in mind:

A Seventh-day Adventist's Long Way Home - The Coming Home Network

Apart from my wife being in an SDA hospital (where I could not get real sausage at the cafeteria) the only other SDA person I have ever met was a guy in the mobile park where I lived who refused to help my disabled wife and an 85 year old guy with putting up his shade on his RV as a storm was moving in. Not a great worker for Our Lord if you ask me, and if he is representative of the whole system I want nothing to do with any of them.

 

[Alofa Atu]

You cannot keep the 613 Laws from ...

Can you cite a single scripture which says '613' laws? I continually ask those who bring this rabbinical talmudic idea up, but they never, not once, ever, cite such a thing from scripture. So, what do you have?

Is your listing the same as one of the rabbinic talmudic listing, or the listing of another rabbi? or other source? and if so, why that listing rather than the others? Thank you.

 

[Alofa Atu]

Apart from my wife being in an SDA hospital (where I could not get real sausage at the cafeteria) the only other SDA person I have ever met was a guy in the mobile park where I lived who refused to help my disabled wife and an 85 year old guy with putting up his shade on his RV as a storm was moving in. Not a great worker for Our Lord if you ask me, and if he is representative of the whole system I want nothing to do with any of them.

So, using that same logic, that is the reason you do not desire to be Christian because of the high priest Caiphas and Annas bad example of following God? You do not desire to be Christian because of the terrible words, deeds and thoughts of the religious leaders, pharisees, saduccees, scribes who did not desire to have a man, or woman healed upon the Sabbath of the Lord?

Using the same logic, you are telling me, that it is ok to transgress God's law (Ten Commandments) in another single one of those laws, just so long as I notice another person not keeping one of the other laws correctly? Tell me please if I understood your logic correctly?

So, I see a person (even a 'card-carrying' church member) steal from the tithes and offerings (like Judas who had the bag) and so it is ok for me to transgress the commandment on adultery, right? Did I follow your logic correctly to the conclusion? For if what you say is the true religion, I have to be sure I am understanding it right, to really practice it (can I start with practicing your religion logic on you first?)

btw, do not think I excuse any wrong-doing, doesn't matter the name/position/paygrade/gender, etc.

Since I do not know the situation you describe I cannot say what the reason the individual was. Said person must give their reason to God.

 

[loDebar]

Can you cite a single scripture which says '613' laws? I continually ask those who bring this rabbinical talmudic idea up, but they never, not once, ever, cite such a thing from scripture. So, what do you have?

Is your listing the same as one of the rabbinic talmudic listing, or the listing of another rabbi? or other source? and if so, why that listing rather than the others? Thank you.

Try Leviticus, Count em

but it doesn't matter SDA ignores what they want , emphasize what they choose and make new ones as they desire

 

[Walter]

Apart from my wife being in an SDA hospital (where I could not get real sausage at the cafeteria) the only other SDA person I have ever met was a guy in the mobile park where I lived who refused to help my disabled wife and an 85 year old guy with putting up his shade on his RV as a storm was moving in. Not a great worker for Our Lord if you ask me, and if he is representative of the whole system I want nothing to do with any of them.

Nope! You cannot get real sausage or a ham sandwich in that hospital, BUT you CAN order up an ABORTION if you get a hankerin'! What a travesty! Adventist health???

 

[Walter]

Can you cite a single scripture which says '613' laws? I continually ask those who bring this rabbinical talmudic idea up, but they never, not once, ever, cite such a thing from scripture. So, what do you have?

Is your listing the same as one of the rabbinic talmudic listing, or the listing of another rabbi? or other source? and if so, why that listing rather than the others? Thank you.

Tell me, do you wear any kind of polyester clothing? Do you realize Lev. 19:19 forbids clothing woven from two types of material?

 

[Alofa Atu]

Try Leviticus, Count em

Only Leviticus? What if my total is different than your total, and different than the rabbinic talmudic total? Do we count the "ten commandments" of Exodus 20:1-17?

I see specific numbers mentioned in the Bible, such as "the ten commandments" (Exo 34:28; Deut 4:13,10:4). I see "the great commandment" (Mat 22:36,28), I see "the first and great commandment" (Mat 22:38), and I see "the second" (great commandment) (Mat 22:39), but I do not anywhere see in Leviticus, or any other place in scripture (from Gen to Rev) where it says, '613'.

Do I count all of the 1,000 + commandments of the NT texts, many of which are citing OT texts? Or do I ignore those?

but it doesn't matter SDA ignores what they want

Can you give a specific example and text, instead of broad nebulous generalizations which accomplish nothing?

emphasize what they choose and make new ones as they desire

Can you give a single specific example of this please, and cite the source? I would be interested in looking at such with you if you will kindly provide it.

 

[Alofa Atu]

Tell me, do you wear any kind of polyester clothing? Do you realize Lev. 19:19 forbids clothing woven from two types of material?

Have ye never read:

1 Cor 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

In the OT, this matter refers to the type (the example for natural children of Israel (Jacob), after the flesh), but in the NT it refers to the reality of the thing (the reality of the spiritual children of Israel (Jesus), after the Spirit), and thus, it speaks to two types of 'seeds' that become clothing, [1] linen, light and airy, [2] woollen, heavy and thick.

In effect one is for warm weather to stay cool, and the other for colder weather to stay warm. God does not want His people luke-warm, by mixing, see Revelation 3:15-16. The type is the object lesson of the reality.

There is also the matter of priesthood, see Eze. 44:17, and God's people are all kings and priests, a royal priesthood, thus we are to live by God's Royal Law of Liberty, the Ten Commandments (Jam 2:8).

Lev 19:19 may also be compared with Deut 22:11.

So every single thing of the OT remains to be obeyed in the NT, as Jesus said:

Mat_5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

 

[Alofa Atu]

Apart from my wife being in an SDA hospital ...

May I ask what is she in for? What is her condition? (seriously).

 

[loDebar]

Only Leviticus? What if my total is different than your total, and different than the rabbinic talmudic total? Do we count the "ten commandments" of Exodus 20:1-17?

I see specific numbers mentioned in the Bible, such as "the ten commandments" (Exo 34:28; Deut 4:13,10:4). I see "the great commandment" (Mat 22:36,28), I see "the first and great commandment" (Mat 22:38), and I see "the second" (great commandment) (Mat 22:39), but I do not anywhere see in Leviticus, or any other place in scripture (from Gen to Rev) where it says, '613'.

Do I count all of the 1,000 + commandments of the NT texts, many of which are citing OT texts? Or do I ignore those?

Can you give a specific example and text, instead of broad nebulous generalizations which accomplish nothing?

Can you give a single specific example of this please, and cite the source? I would be interested in looking at such with you if you will kindly provide it.

no, count the Law as was being discussed


SDA is fixed on the Sabbath

The point is SDA is trying to be Hebrew and Christian..

We should question the origins, You are a victim of doctrine being formed from English by a uneducated frontier woman with no or little or no knowledge of Hebrew or Greek.

 

[37818]

. . . I do not agree with every statement made in these videos . . . .

Could you present a particular point of importance that you could not agree with?