Questions Preterist MUST deal with to Fit the 70 A.D. Theory

[revmwc]

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=1740544#post1740544



http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=1740556#post1740556
http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=1740581#post1740581



http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=63301



http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=1671933&highlight=SELF-INFLICTED+SUFFERINGS#post1671933

.....when this occured:
Mt. 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=1489975&highlight=cease+shine#post1489975

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=1489992&highlight=clouds#post1489992

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=1340449&highlight=clouds#post1340449



http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=1489975&highlight=cease+shine#post1489975

(the rest of the OP is rambling reasonings that I'm not even going to try to decipher)

You continue to take the english and totally discount the orignal meanings of the Greek but we must take the Greek language into account when studying the word, time after time I have shown how the Greek came through. Pas many each and every for the word All, and Christ in Mat. 24:14 saying Holos the completely whole world (Oikoumene). Study the original and see. You have yet to even try to answer the other things which Christ said MUST be FULFILLED before His return that we see nothing on that shows they were fulfilled. We see preterism as wanting and nothing but someones theory that has spread to those who are as 2 Peter says in chapter 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

Scoffing because He hasn't returned and it's been nearly 2000 years, yet Peter says they are willingly ignorant of the Word of God, that describes preterist perfectly.

 

[Iconoclast]

Notice what was said, "14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come." notice christ said in all the WORLD not the known world that man knew but the Whold WORLD as Jesus being God knew this would include those tribes, by your theory there is no need for missionaries to reach these folks Paul and the Apostles and those living before 70 A.D. reached them and Jesus prophecy was fulfilled by what you say. It would be a witness to ALL Nations in ALL the World and those tribes of North & South America and the pacific tribes were not reached, so Christ lied or your preterist theory is incorrect.
The gospel when presented to these tribes of folks was new when they begin to hear the word from about 1500 A.D. and forward. That is quite a long way from 70 A.D.

revmac....maybe you noticed these verses also????
They did not seem to be on your list!

Romans 1:8
First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.

Romans 10:18
But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.

Colossians 1:6
Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:

 

[michael-acts17:11]

You continue to take the english and totally discount the orignal meanings of the Greek but we must take the Greek language into account when studying the word, time after time I have shown how the Greek came through. Pas many each and every for the word All, and Christ in Mat. 24:14 saying Holos the completely whole world (Oikoumene). Study the original and see. You have yet to even try to answer the other things which Christ said MUST be FULFILLED before His return that we see nothing on that shows they were fulfilled. We see preterism as wanting and nothing but someones theory that has spread to those who are as 2 Peter says in chapter 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

Scoffing because He hasn't returned and it's been nearly 2000 years, yet Peter says they are willingly ignorant of the Word of God, that describes preterist perfectly.

I love how you keep your debates on an intellectual, theological level instead of resorting to liberal-like character attacks & name calling. If you can't beat 'em, marginalize their position to preserve the integrity of your own ideology.

You seem to be guilty of the same willful ignorance by ignoring every single statement Christ makes regarding the time of the coming judgement against Israel. He was not speaking of His return & recreation of the universe; only of the coming judgement against Israel.

 

[DHK]

You seem to be guilty of the same willful ignorance by ignoring every single statement Christ makes regarding the time of the coming judgement against Israel. He was not speaking of His return & recreation of the universe; only of the coming judgement against Israel.

The most important verse concerning the time of his return is here:

But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. (Matthew 24:36)

 

[thomas15]

The most important verse concerning the time of his return is here:

But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. (Matthew 24:36)

And we know that before he returns there will be great tribulation, the sun will not shine, the moon not give off light, the stars will fall, then the Son of Man will appear and all of the tribes of the earth will mourn.

None of this has happened yet. It all comes down to taking the word of the Bible seriously, which the preterist does not do.

 

[revmwc]

revmac....maybe you noticed these verses also????
They did not seem to be on your list!

You didn't go back far enough they were addressed.

 

[revmwc]

I love how you keep your debates on an intellectual, theological level instead of resorting to liberal-like character attacks & name calling. If you can't beat 'em, marginalize their position to preserve the integrity of your own ideology.

You seem to be guilty of the same willful ignorance by ignoring every single statement Christ makes regarding the time of the coming judgement against Israel. He was not speaking of His return & recreation of the universe; only of the coming judgement against Israel.

Christ said the Jews would be judge but for the topic we are addressing we need not discuss. The point is Jesus said all would be fufilled before the generation that was alive when it all occured would pass away.

 

[thomas15]

I'm done.....

Not to be unkind but personally, I don't care what you believe, however this is a discussion forum where we discuss things of a theological nature from a Biblical standpoint. I many times get the impression that you and your fellow preterists have it as your mission to get the unwashed dispies to see the light so to speak. For you and your brethern to get all emotional because you are not getting your way with the implication that we are simply and willfully hard-headed is quite humorous.

Your entire theological system is dependent on the preterist time text theory at the expense of many details which you simply ignore. Your system has zero historical backing and it relies on subjective interpretations that lack a consistent set of rules. No one would ever read the Bible alone (sola scriptura) and come to the prerequisite covenant (works/redemption/grace) position much less the preterist position which if it were not so tragic, it would be funny. I persoanlly believe the entire preterist position is the result of a desire to be considered the smartest man in the room.

By the way, answering questions by posting hyperlinks or quoting verbatum from supreme goofball Gary Demar is not discussion and doesn't help your cause one bit.

 

[kyredneck]

Not to be unkind but personally, I don't care what you believe, however this is a discussion forum where we discuss things of a theological nature from a Biblical standpoint. I many times get the impression that you and your fellow preterists have it as your mission to get the unwashed dispies to see the light so to speak. For you and your brethern to get all emotional because you are not getting your way with the implication that we are simply and willfully hard-headed is quite humorous.

Your entire theological system is dependent on the preterist time text theory at the expense of many details which you simply ignore. Your system has zero historical backing and it relies on subjective interpretations that lack a consistent set of rules. No one would ever read the Bible alone (sola scriptura) and come to the prerequisite covenant (works/redemption/grace) position much less the preterist position which if it were not so tragic, it would be funny. I persoanlly believe the entire preterist position is the result of a desire to be considered the smartest man in the room.

By the way, answering questions by posting hyperlinks or quoting verbatum from supreme goofball Gary Demar is not discussion and doesn't help your cause one bit.

?????

Your imagination must run wild. How else could someone come up with this sort of irrelevant rambling?

 

[kyredneck]

And we know that before he returns there will be great tribulation, the sun will not shine, the moon not give off light, the stars will fall, then the Son of Man will appear and all of the tribes of the earth will mourn.......

If the sun stops shining there'll be no mourning.......they'll all be dead.

This is hyperbole; the same sort of hyperbole used in Hebrews to signify the very same event, THE PUTTING AWAY OF THE OLD TO BRING IN THE NEW. The light of the Old Covenant would cease to shine, i.e., the consummation of the age.

26 whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more will I make to tremble not the earth only, but also the heaven.
27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that have been made, that those things which are not shaken may remain.
28 Wherefore, receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, let us have grace, whereby we may offer service well-pleasing to God with reverence and awe:
29 for our God is a consuming fire. Heb 12

"...the tribes of the earth will mourn..."

READ TRIBES OF THE LAND, i.e. JEWS. Mourning as in:

11 And I say unto you, that many shall come from the east and the west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven:
12 but the sons of the kingdom shall be cast forth into the outer darkness: there shall be the weeping and the gnashing of teeth. Mt 8

28 There shall be the weeping and the gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and yourselves cast forth without.
29 And they shall come from the east and west, and from the north and south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God. Lu 13

 

[psalms109:31]

When Paul is talking about the whole world as he knows it, when God is talking about loving the world He is not limited by all Paul know as world, but all He knows as world.

It is just like when Paul tells Timothy that God wants all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth.

Paul is not talking about all He knows, but all God knows the key word is knowledge of the truth, that holds them back that all does not come.

John 6:
45 It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’[Isaiah 54:13] Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.

John 15:15
I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you.

Matthew 11:
28 “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”