Racism and sins of the past

[JonC]

There are many issues that need to be discussed and addressed.

I believe that the issue of racism will never be resolved in this lifetime because it is an issue of the heart. This was evidenced with the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Technically this ended systematic racism. But the Act had no “teeth” because it was not being enforced. That is why Martin Luther King Jr.’s leadership and contributions were so important to our nation. But even now racism exists because people are sinful.

While we can end systemic racism in the form of active discrimination in the public sphere what can we do about matters of the heart? If we prevent “hate speech” we are addressing the expression of hate, not hate itself. That will have consequences.

What about law enforcement prejudices against black men? Do they exist? I think it is obvious that they do. But why? What is the root of the problem? Again, it is complicated (it is not simple a matter of officers being “racist”). Black men make up a minority of our citizens but commit the majority of the violent crimes. Police officers are 8% more likely to be killed by a black man than by a white man. That is what Republicans will tell you. And that is true.

At the same time we have to ask why are black men committing the majority of the violent crimes? It goes back, IMHO, to our nation’s “sins of the past”. As a nation we can, and have, fixed systemic racism. That was the easy part (relatively speaking). That only required a judicial act and enforcement.

But ending systemic racism does not fix the damage it wrought on our nation.

Currently a black man has more opportunity than a white man when it comes to upper leadership and management. Corporations look for minorities, they seek them out, they value diversity - even as older corporations remain controlled by a legacy leadership (overall numbers are not an accurate reflection of growth in diversity).

However there is still the issue of the “sins of the past”. Opportunities to minority groups are not beneficial if they are beyond the grasp of the individual person. That is where the problem, IMHO, is the greatest.

 

[Revmitchell]

There are many issues that need to be discussed and addressed.

I believe that the issue of racism will never be resolved in this lifetime because it is an issue of the heart. This was evidenced with the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Technically this ended systematic racism. But the Act had no “teeth” because it was not being enforced. That is why Martin Luther King Jr.’s leadership and contributions were so important to our nation. But even now racism exists because people are sinful.

While we can end systemic racism in the form of active discrimination in the public sphere what can we do about matters of the heart? If we prevent “hate speech” we are addressing the expression of hate, not hate itself. That will have consequences.

What about law enforcement prejudices against black men? Do they exist? I think it is obvious that they do. But why? What is the root of the problem? Again, it is complicated (it is not simple a matter of officers being “racist”). Black men make up a minority of our citizens but commit the majority of the violent crimes. Police officers are 8% more likely to be killed by a black man than by a white man. That is what Republicans will tell you. And that is true.

At the same time we have to ask why are black men committing the majority of the violent crimes? It goes back, IMHO, to our nation’s “sins of the past”. As a nation we can, and have, fixed systemic racism. That was the easy part (relatively speaking). That only required a judicial act and enforcement.

But ending systemic racism does not fix the damage it wrought on our nation.

Currently a black man has more opportunity than a white man when it comes to upper leadership and management. Corporations look for minorities, they seek them out, they value diversity - even as older corporations remain controlled by a legacy leadership (overall numbers are not an accurate reflection of growth in diversity).

However there is still the issue of the “sins of the past”. Opportunities to minority groups are not beneficial if they are beyond the grasp of the individual person. That is where the problem, IMHO, is the greatest.

Please give me both an example of systematic racism and racism by law enforcement.

 

[Yeshua1]

Please give me both an example of systematic racism and racism by law enforcement.

That is one of the mantras of the BLM....

 

[JonC]

Please give me both an example of systematic racism and racism by law enforcement.

Sure.

The "redlining" system that banks and real estate industries used to quite literally outline the neighborhoods where black people lived (in red ink...hence the name) was systemic racism. This practice was "systemic" because it was a part of the official policy (a part of the system, not just acts of individual racism) until the practice was banned in 1968.

The wrongful conviction of Rubin Carter in 1966 is a good example (and the topic of a good Bob Dylan song) of systemic racism by law enforcement in how they handled cases involving black men.

 

[Revmitchell]

Sure.

The "redlining" system that banks and real estate industries used to quite literally outline the neighborhoods where black people lived (in red ink...hence the name) was systemic racism. This practice was "systemic" because it was a part of the official policy (a part of the system, not just acts of individual racism) until the practice was banned in 1968.

The wrongful conviction of Rubin Carter in 1966 is a good example (and the topic of a good Bob Dylan song) of systemic racism by law enforcement in how they handled cases involving black men.

Give me an example of today of wide spread systematic racism to include law enforcement.

 

[JonC]

Give me an example of today of wide spread systematic racism to include law enforcement.

Sure.

The U.S. Supreme Court has recognized an exception to Title VII which protects from anti-discrimination laws allowing an employer with a historical racial imbalance or disparity to discriminate against candidates (in hiring) and employees (in promotion) by passing up white candidates for minority candidates regardless of qualification (level of qualification).

So there is an official policy that states a company can refuse to hire or promote me because I am white and hire another person because they are a minority. That is systemic racism.

This has extended to law enforcement as they strive to demonstrate greater racial diversity in leadership.

 

[Revmitchell]

Sure.

The U.S. Supreme Court has recognized an exception to Title VII which protects from anti-discrimination laws allowing an employer with a historical racial imbalance or disparity to discriminate against candidates (in hiring) and employees (in promotion) by passing up white candidates for minority candidates regardless of qualification (level of qualification).

So there is an official policy that states a company can refuse to hire or promote me because I am white and hire another person because they are a minority. That is systemic racism.

This has extended to law enforcement as they strive to demonstrate greater racial diversity in leadership.

Naa cant be racist against white people or so Im told

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

Sure.

The U.S. Supreme Court has recognized an exception to Title VII which protects from anti-discrimination laws allowing an employer with a historical racial imbalance or disparity to discriminate against candidates (in hiring) and employees (in promotion) by passing up white candidates for minority candidates regardless of qualification (level of qualification).

So there is an official policy that states a company can refuse to hire or promote me because I am white and hire another person because they are a minority. That is systemic racism.

This has extended to law enforcement as they strive to demonstrate greater racial diversity in leadership.

Come on, man. Let’s keep it real, and in America. The phrase “systemic racism” is reserved “by definition” to refer strictly to white oppression of minorities, especially blacks, or at the very least to the preference of whites over minorities, especially blacks. Using the phrase the way you did will be seen as indicative of “systemic racism,” or worse.

 

[JonC]

Come on, man. Let’s keep it real, and in America. The phrase “systemic racism” is reserved “by definition” to refer strictly to white oppression of minorities, especially blacks, or at the very least to the preference of whites over minorities, especially blacks. Using the phrase the way you did will be seen as indicative of “systemic racism,” or worse.

I seem to remember the kids at the local swimming hole saying something like that, but I'm not sure 'cause I was distracted by them petting my leg hairs as I was waiting for my buddy Corn Pop to come back from the public pool.

 

[Reynolds]

There are many issues that need to be discussed and addressed.

I believe that the issue of racism will never be resolved in this lifetime because it is an issue of the heart. This was evidenced with the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Technically this ended systematic racism. But the Act had no “teeth” because it was not being enforced. That is why Martin Luther King Jr.’s leadership and contributions were so important to our nation. But even now racism exists because people are sinful.

While we can end systemic racism in the form of active discrimination in the public sphere what can we do about matters of the heart? If we prevent “hate speech” we are addressing the expression of hate, not hate itself. That will have consequences.

What about law enforcement prejudices against black men? Do they exist? I think it is obvious that they do. But why? What is the root of the problem? Again, it is complicated (it is not simple a matter of officers being “racist”). Black men make up a minority of our citizens but commit the majority of the violent crimes. Police officers are 8% more likely to be killed by a black man than by a white man. That is what Republicans will tell you. And that is true.

At the same time we have to ask why are black men committing the majority of the violent crimes? It goes back, IMHO, to our nation’s “sins of the past”. As a nation we can, and have, fixed systemic racism. That was the easy part (relatively speaking). That only required a judicial act and enforcement.

But ending systemic racism does not fix the damage it wrought on our nation.

Currently a black man has more opportunity than a white man when it comes to upper leadership and management. Corporations look for minorities, they seek them out, they value diversity - even as older corporations remain controlled by a legacy leadership (overall numbers are not an accurate reflection of growth in diversity).

However there is still the issue of the “sins of the past”. Opportunities to minority groups are not beneficial if they are beyond the grasp of the individual person. That is where the problem, IMHO, is the greatest.

Just go join BLM and riot with them.

 

[JonC]

Just go join BLM and riot with them.

Given my previous comments, why do you believe I'd support BLM?

 

[Reformed1689]

If I had an emoji for a can of worms.....

 

[JonC]

If I had an emoji for a can of worms.....

Yea....I like to post and see what people reply .

 

[Reynolds]

Given my previous comments, why do you believe I'd support BLM?

Your comment I responded to sounded like BLM lite.

 

[JonC]

Your comment I responded to sounded like BLM lite.

That there are lasting effects (cultural and socio-economic) of past racial oppression?

I would hope that fact would be obvious.

 

[Reynolds]

That there are lasting effects (cultural and socio-economic) of past racial oppression?

I would hope that fact would be obvious.

I don't agree at all. You lost me at L.E. prejudice against black men.

 

[Revmitchell]

That there are lasting effects (cultural and socio-economic) of past racial oppression?

I would hope that fact would be obvious.

I used to do what was called power slides on my bmx bike when I was a teen in the mid to late 70s. Inevitably I would drag my knee across the asphalt causing severe road rash and then a huge scab. I would be impatient with it and not let it heal. I would keep picking it and prolonging the pain and bleeding. As long as I picked at it it never would really heal.

That is what many are doing and have been doing with racism. They dont want it to heal. In the picking of the scab there is sympathy and in the sympathy there is power and control.

The cries about racism today are not genuine. They are about control, power, politics, and a great many other things none of which are about equality.

 

[JonC]

I don't agree at all. You lost me at L.E. prejudice against black men.

No clue what you are talking about.

My point is communities and cultures have been affected by past racism. The current debate proves that fact (at a minimum the past has had a cultural effect). The DNC has fed off of and been shaped by racism. There are ares that never recovered from past oppression (a few areas surrounding Augusta).

I do not understand how this is not obvious to you.

 

[Reformed1689]

That there are lasting effects (cultural and socio-economic) of past racial oppression?

I would hope that fact would be obvious.

No, that's the perpetual victim card they like to play...

 

[JonC]

I used to do what was called power slides on my bmx bike when I was a teen in the mid to late 70s. Inevitably I would drag my knee across the asphalt causing severe road rash and then a huge scab. I would be impatient with it and not let it heal. I would keep picking it and prolonging the pain and bleeding. As long as I picked at it it never would really heal.

That is what many are doing and have been doing with racism. They dont want it to heal. In the picking of the scab there is sympathy and in the sympathy there is power and control.

The cries about racism today are not genuine. They are about control, power, politics, and a great many other things none of which are about equality.

I agree. There are, of course, racists. But wide spread and systemic racism (towards a minority) does not exist.

There are, however, still areas that need to be imoroved upon. The primary issue is victimhood (I never understood the weakness of the segment of Black Americans that seek to be victims) and cultural. At the same time there are areas that need resources. There are areas that have never had the resources to recover from past issues (if you doubt this, come ride with me for a day).