Racism and sins of the past

[JonC]

No, that's the perpetual victim card they like to play...

This is the largest issue. At the same time the past has created a caustic culture and ideology of victimhood. Just saying "stop your whining" is not enough.

Today a Black person has more advantages than a white man. Corporations seek out minorities in leadership for diversity. So there are more opportunities for Black men. But they have to be in a position to take advantage of those opportunities.

The Democrat party has probably been the most oppressive aspect to Black America. The DNC lost power with the Civil Rights Act but gained power by enslaving minorities with chains much stronger than iron. They (Democrats) bear responsibility for destroying the Black family structure, fostering racism, discouraging independence, and doing so in a way that left many begging for more.

Look at it this way, rather than improving people the DNC has sought to lower standards. The DNC will do anything to keep minorities "in their place".

These are consequences of past racism.

 

[Reynolds]

No clue what you are talking about.

My point is communities and cultures have been affected by past racism. The current debate proves that fact (at a minimum the past has had a cultural effect). The DNC has fed off of and been shaped by racism. There are ares that never recovered from past oppression (a few areas surrounding Augusta).

I do not understand how this is not obvious to you.

Everyone does not have millionaire parents. There are poor Whites, Poor Blacks, poor Indians, poor Hispanics. Suck it up. Pull yourself up. Quit blaming Whitey for your problems. You want to go to college, go. You want to peddle crack rock for a living, have at it. Just don't blame white man for YOUR decisions.

 

[Revmitchell]

I agree. There are, of course, racists. But wide spread and systemic racism (towards a minority) does not exist.

There are, however, still areas that need to be imoroved upon. The primary issue is victimhood (I never understood the weakness of the segment of Black Americans that seek to be victims) and cultural. At the same time there are areas that need resources. There are areas that have never had the resources to recover from past issues (if you doubt this, come ride with me for a day).

I dont

 

[JonC]

Everyone does not have millionaire parents. There are poor Whites, Poor Blacks, poor Indians, poor Hispanics. Suck it up. Pull yourself up. Quit blaming Whitey for your problems. You want to go to college, go. You want to peddle crack rock for a living, have at it. Just don't blame white man for YOUR decisions.

Poverty has nothing to do with it. And who said anything about blaming white men?????

You are projecting.

I am saying that there are areas of society that have not recovered from past issues. I never said white men were to blame (I said the most culpable is the Democratic Party).

 

[Salty]

Trying to think where this comes into play.

When the NFL has an opening for a head coach - the team is required to interview at least one minority. Lets suppose the team has already decided it is going to hire one of its assistant coaches - but they must invite at least one minority for an interview. Is that being fair to that individual - asking him to come - even though you know that you will not hire him?

NFL announces changes to Rooney Rule, seeking to advance diversity

Extra draft picks ::The NFL's Diversity Double Standard

 

[robustheologian]

There are many issues that need to be discussed and addressed.

I believe that the issue of racism will never be resolved in this lifetime because it is an issue of the heart. This was evidenced with the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Technically this ended systematic racism. But the Act had no “teeth” because it was not being enforced. That is why Martin Luther King Jr.’s leadership and contributions were so important to our nation. But even now racism exists because people are sinful.

While we can end systemic racism in the form of active discrimination in the public sphere what can we do about matters of the heart? If we prevent “hate speech” we are addressing the expression of hate, not hate itself. That will have consequences.

What about law enforcement prejudices against black men? Do they exist? I think it is obvious that they do. But why? What is the root of the problem? Again, it is complicated (it is not simple a matter of officers being “racist”). Black men make up a minority of our citizens but commit the majority of the violent crimes. Police officers are 8% more likely to be killed by a black man than by a white man. That is what Republicans will tell you. And that is true.

At the same time we have to ask why are black men committing the majority of the violent crimes? It goes back, IMHO, to our nation’s “sins of the past”. As a nation we can, and have, fixed systemic racism. That was the easy part (relatively speaking). That only required a judicial act and enforcement.

But ending systemic racism does not fix the damage it wrought on our nation.

Currently a black man has more opportunity than a white man when it comes to upper leadership and management. Corporations look for minorities, they seek them out, they value diversity - even as older corporations remain controlled by a legacy leadership (overall numbers are not an accurate reflection of growth in diversity).

However there is still the issue of the “sins of the past”. Opportunities to minority groups are not beneficial if they are beyond the grasp of the individual person. That is where the problem, IMHO, is the greatest.

All these replies prove my point on our previous conversation.

 

[robustheologian]

I am saying that there are areas of society that have not recovered from past issues.

What's funny is that anyone in the world outside of the MAGA cult could see this. The delusion is great.

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

What's funny is that anyone in the world outside of the MAGA cult could see this. The delusion is great.

That's delusional. Everyone sees it. The point to be addressed, the underlying problems, and where the great divide exists, is why this is so. Opinions on this are not divided strictly by race.

 

[Reynolds]

Poverty has nothing to do with it. And who said anything about blaming white men?????

You are projecting.

I am saying that there are areas of society that have not recovered from past issues. I never said white men were to blame (I said the most culpable is the Democratic Party).

The Democratic party has a goal of keeping their black vote on the Plantation. No doubt about that. If black voters are too stupid to see it, they deserve it.

Is this a discussion forum or a formal debate forum? I would like to know. A few on here love to throw out the terms as if it is. 99% of what is posted here violates the rules of formal debate. If it's formal debate, observe the rules. If it's not, I wish everyone would quit throwing the terms around in haphazard manner.

 

[JonC]

The Democratic party has a goal of keeping their black vote on the Plantation. No doubt about that. If black voters are too stupid to see it, they deserve it.

Is this a discussion forum or a formal debate forum? I would like to know. A few on here love to throw out the terms as if it is. 99% of what is posted here violates the rules of formal debate. If it's formal debate, observe the rules. If it's not, I wish everyone would quit throwing the terms around in haphazard manner.

Just a discussion. I tossed it out the way I did just to see what would come back.

I have not noticed anyone tossing around terms concerning formal debate. But I have not closely read what others have written to you either.

 

[JonC]

Something that has not been discussed, oddly, (and that relates to past oppression) is the fact that the "Black culture" has it's own "rebel flags" and "monuments".

This is one reason that I am not opposed to the removal of "flags and statues". There are entire genres of music and culture, not just "Dixie", that will have to be removed for the type of "equity" sought by groups like BLM. For starters, BLM itself must be erased and replaced with a more inclusive organization that seeks social justice for all men, not just one race, and racial injustices can be addressed from that vantage. Entertainment genres must be torn down as they some find it racially offensive.

The sad part (to me) is literary works. Not only must we loose important works of the past (like Ralph Ellision, Langston Hughes, Richard Wright, Flannery O'Conner, Joseph Conrad, Mark Twain) but we must remove literary works of the present (like Rachel Cargle, and Aja Monet). Even more than that, we have to make sure that such literary monuments never take root again as while relevant they are written from singular perspective with their own presuppositions (they are not entirely "fact" or "data" driven) and may be offensive to others with their interpretations of the cultural climate and their unique worldviews.

Another point that we have touched on, but have kinda glossed over, is culture. While the caustic culture often associated with Black America can be linked to past oppression, we cannot ignore that it now exists separately and contributes to racial issues. Why are police officers more cautious with Black men? Because they are more likely to be killed by a Black man. Why is this true? Part may be linked to law enforcement. But a large part is related to one Black culture. We could discuss the destruction of the nuclear family (this is one area that can be directly linked to the DNC). We can discuss idolizing criminals and a criminal lifestyle. We can discuss stereotypes that are passed down from generation to generation, that are taught but may not actually be accurate.

In the end all of this is a part of the, as @robustheologian illustrated, boulder that has gained power as it rolled down the hill. Who is to blame for the boulder? No one alive today. Who pushed it? Again, no one who is alive today. Who is using it for their benefit, for their power? That is the question. People make a living (on all sides) from the disenfranchisement of other people.

 

[Van]

So if I am understanding the premise of the thread, systemic racism in America refers to laws which treat groups of people differently from all other people. For example, affirmative action is an example of systemic racism. Or laws governing native peoples. Thus the charge of white privilege in America presents the opposite of reality?

 

[JonC]

So if I am understanding the premise of the thread, systemic racism in America refers to laws which treat groups of people differently from all other people. For example, affirmative action is an example of systemic racism. Or laws governing native peoples. Thus the charge of white privilege in America presents the opposite of reality?

I understood systemic racism to be racism built into a system (whether a government or an institution). @robustheologian made the point that systemic racism includes the long felt repercussions of "systematic" racism.

To be fair, I am not sure how I would differentiate between systemic and institutional racism.

"White privilege" is the false assumption Caucasians are privileged because of their race. It is an oversimplification and superficial answer to a complex issue and often fails at the individual level. "White privilege" is a narrative towards "white guilt" (literally "black power") which seeks not justice or social equality but power via oppression.

 

[Van]

I understood systemic racism to be racism built into a system (whether a government or an institution). @robustheologian made the point that systemic racism includes the long felt repercussions of "systematic" racism.

To be fair, I am not sure how I would differentiate between systemic and institutional racism.

"White privilege" is the false assumption Caucasians are privileged because of their race. It is an oversimplification and superficial answer to a complex issue and often fails at the individual level. "White privilege" is a narrative towards "white guilt" (literally "black power") which seeks not justice or social equality but power via oppression.

I do not disagree, my point was "systemic racism" as illustrated worked against white privilege.

 

[MrW]

There are many issues that need to be discussed and addressed.

I believe that the issue of racism will never be resolved in this lifetime because it is an issue of the heart. This was evidenced with the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Technically this ended systematic racism. But the Act had no “teeth” because it was not being enforced. That is why Martin Luther King Jr.’s leadership and contributions were so important to our nation. But even now racism exists because people are sinful.

While we can end systemic racism in the form of active discrimination in the public sphere what can we do about matters of the heart? If we prevent “hate speech” we are addressing the expression of hate, not hate itself. That will have consequences.

What about law enforcement prejudices against black men? Do they exist? I think it is obvious that they do. But why? What is the root of the problem? Again, it is complicated (it is not simple a matter of officers being “racist”). Black men make up a minority of our citizens but commit the majority of the violent crimes. Police officers are 8% more likely to be killed by a black man than by a white man. That is what Republicans will tell you. And that is true.

At the same time we have to ask why are black men committing the majority of the violent crimes? It goes back, IMHO, to our nation’s “sins of the past”. As a nation we can, and have, fixed systemic racism. That was the easy part (relatively speaking). That only required a judicial act and enforcement.

But ending systemic racism does not fix the damage it wrought on our nation.

Currently a black man has more opportunity than a white man when it comes to upper leadership and management. Corporations look for minorities, they seek them out, they value diversity - even as older corporations remain controlled by a legacy leadership (overall numbers are not an accurate reflection of growth in diversity).

However there is still the issue of the “sins of the past”. Opportunities to minority groups are not beneficial if they are beyond the grasp of the individual person. That is where the problem, IMHO, is the greatest.

 

[MrW]

There are many issues that need to be discussed and addressed.

I believe that the issue of racism will never be resolved in this lifetime because it is an issue of the heart. This was evidenced with the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Technically this ended systematic racism. But the Act had no “teeth” because it was not being enforced. That is why Martin Luther King Jr.’s leadership and contributions were so important to our nation. But even now racism exists because people are sinful.

While we can end systemic racism in the form of active discrimination in the public sphere what can we do about matters of the heart? If we prevent “hate speech” we are addressing the expression of hate, not hate itself. That will have consequences.

What about law enforcement prejudices against black men? Do they exist? I think it is obvious that they do. But why? What is the root of the problem? Again, it is complicated (it is not simple a matter of officers being “racist”). Black men make up a minority of our citizens but commit the majority of the violent crimes. Police officers are 8% more likely to be killed by a black man than by a white man. That is what Republicans will tell you. And that is true.

At the same time we have to ask why are black men committing the majority of the violent crimes? It goes back, IMHO, to our nation’s “sins of the past”. As a nation we can, and have, fixed systemic racism. That was the easy part (relatively speaking). That only required a judicial act and enforcement.

But ending systemic racism does not fix the damage it wrought on our nation.

Currently a black man has more opportunity than a white man when it comes to upper leadership and management. Corporations look for minorities, they seek them out, they value diversity - even as older corporations remain controlled by a legacy leadership (overall numbers are not an accurate reflection of growth in diversity).

However there is still the issue of the “sins of the past”. Opportunities to minority groups are not beneficial if they are beyond the grasp of the individual person. That is where the problem, IMHO, is the greatest.

I don't believe there is systemic racism in America, unless you refer to blacks being racist against whites for what happened many decades ago.

 

[poor-in-spirit]

Hatred for another for any reason is the spirit of anti-Christ. No Spirit indwelt believer will hate anyone else for any reason.

But that is not the real issue here. Racial separation by God was the result of man's arrogance and rebellion against God when man unites as one.

Remember how God reacted to mankind's unity in the past. Scripture shows that this unity always resulted in man's pride, arrogance and rebellion against God. This precedence was set at the Flood and then again at Babel. God separated man by language and therefore "race" after Babel and He did it on purpose and for this reason only. He ensured it's continuance for a time by dividing the continents soon after. These acts of God after Babel created the races and nations of the world. Those ignorant without the Spirit of Christ claim racial and national separation as "evil". It is the spirit of anti-Christ which claims racial and international unity as "good".

See the pattern? This same pattern has swept the world not only with false racial narratives but with reprobate ideology: infant sacrifice, pedophilia, gender neutrality, unnatural homosexual acceptance as "normal", etc.

Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

Because of man's willful ignorance of history in Scripture man is the repeating the same abomination against God in these last days. This time however it is on a far larger scale than before and this time will also be the last time with Satan's one world government about to be realized. Once they purge all of the upright ones, those united as one against God in the name of their fake new unity and "morality" will all cry with one voice, "peace and safety" before their sudden destruction.

Perhaps we should consider that racial tensions were created by us when our forefathers blended the races and nationalities together in open rebellion against God. The chickens are about to come home to roost. For those of you who still fantasize that America was God's new physical nation on earth. America is simply part of the 8th whose wings are about to be plucked off the lion so that the lion can stand alone at the beast's table. The possibility of civil war is very great right now and this war will be fought largely along racial lines and throughout the industrialized world. Europe's recent trend of limitless refugee immigration has also set the same stage there.

We should also consider the reversal of discrimination discussed in this thread as something this nation deserves for our forefather's willful ignorance of God's precepts. In other words friends, no one is going to "fix" it because this is how it ends!

His-Story

 

[JonC]

I don't believe there is systemic racism in America, unless you refer to blacks being racist against whites for what happened many decades ago.

Personally, I agree. But that has to do with definitions.

I think it is obvious that past racism has had a lasting effect on our culture.

As it stands today a Black person has more opportunities than a white man (the Supreme Court implemented systemic racism in the form of legal discrimination for "imbalanced" institutuins).

But at the same time opportunities are not legitimate if they cannot be realized.

Republicans like to say "pull yourself up by your bootstraps". That only works if you can obtain boots.

 

[JonC]

Hatred for another for any reason is the spirit of anti-Christ. No Spirit indwelt believer will hate anyone else for any reason.

But that is not the real issue here. Racial separation by God was the result of man's arrogance and rebellion against God when man unites as one.

Remember how God reacted to mankind's unity in the past. Scripture shows that this unity always resulted in man's pride, arrogance and rebellion against God. This precedence was set at the Flood and then again at Babel. God separated man by language and therefore "race" after Babel and He did it on purpose and for this reason only. He ensured it's continuance for a time by dividing the continents soon after. These acts of God after Babel created the races and nations of the world. Those ignorant without the Spirit of Christ claim racial and national separation as "evil". It is the spirit of anti-Christ which claims racial and international unity as "good".

See the pattern? This same pattern has swept the world not only with false racial narratives but with reprobate ideology: infant sacrifice, pedophilia, gender neutrality, unnatural homosexual acceptance as "normal", etc.

Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

Because of man's willful ignorance of history in Scripture man is the repeating the same abomination against God in these last days. This time however it is on a far larger scale than before and this time will also be the last time with Satan's one world government about to be realized. Once they purge all of the upright ones, those united as one against God in the name of their fake new unity and "morality" will all cry with one voice, "peace and safety" before their sudden destruction.

Perhaps we should consider that racial tensions were created by us when our forefathers blended the races and nationalities together in open rebellion against God. The chickens are about to come home to roost. For those of you who still fantasize that America was God's new physical nation on earth. America is simply part of the 8th whose wings are about to be plucked off the lion so that the lion can stand alone at the beast's table. The possibility of civil war is very great right now and this war will be fought largely along racial lines and throughout the industrialized world. Europe's recent trend of limitless refugee immigration has also set the same stage there.

We should also consider the reversal of discrimination discussed in this thread as something this nation deserves for our forefather's willful ignorance of God's precepts. In other words friends, no one is going to "fix" it because this is how it ends!

His-Story

Good points.

Scripture speaks of "nation against nation" (literally "race against race"). It is a human condition - i.e , worldly.

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

Good points. Scripture speaks of "nation against nation" (literally "race against race"). It is a human condition - i.e , worldly.

Not nearly enough is admitted to regarding racism. It is not a national problem, but an international one. Trying to address racism in America apart from its wider context in history and the world is terribly myopic, a losing proposition.