Raising Hands in Worship

[Brother Bob]

You should never tell someone how to give God praise. Praise to God is a personal thing between you and God. If you feel like raising your hands and shout, by all means do it. I know some churches who frown on it, but you won't see me there.

If there is no "feeling", then you can have it. As for me and my house we will serve the Lord by giving Him praise.

Some are ashame to show emotions, well they don't need to go to Heaven then, for they sure will be praising God over there and won't need a preacher or pastor either.

Luk 19:40And he answered and said unto them, I tell you that, if these should hold their peace, the stones would immediately cry out.

 

[Amy.G]

If there is no "feeling", then you can have it. As for me and my house we will serve the Lord by giving Him praise.

Some are ashame to show emotions, well they don't need to go to Heaven then, for they sure will be praising God over there and won't need a preacher or pastor either.

Luk 19:40And he answered and said unto them, I tell you that, if these should hold their peace, the stones would immediately cry out.

Amen. I can't imagine not ever feeling God's presence whether it's in church or anywhere else. Sometimes, I'm overcome with the feeling of love for God and just have to praise Him. It can happen anywhere or anytime. I've even raised my hand (not hands :laugh: ) while driving and listening to Christian music. I thank God for those times. raying:

 

[Brother Bob]

me too Amy........

 

[Scarlett O.]

What are 7-11's?? You know, they are those ultra-repetitive songs that some Christians can't stand to sing because they think that repetition is a tool of the devil.

You know, songs like page 50 in the hymnal.

"O for a thousand tongues to sing,
Blessed be the Name of the Lord.
The glories of my God and King,
Blessed be the Name of the Lord.

Blessed be the Name,
Blessed be the Name,
Blessed be the Name of the Lord.

Blessed be the Name,
Blessed be the Name,
Blessed be the Name of the Lord."

Watch out, folks. I am ON ONE today. :saint:

 

[Pastor Larry]

I feel that singing and listening to the preaching is part of corporate worship and raising hands is private worship. IMHO.

OK. Based on what? And does the mean that you object to raising hands in corporate worship?

Pastor, do you really not know when the Spirit of God is upon you? Have you never felt the presence of God's Spirit? I'm wondering why you would ask this question.

Because Saggy made a comment about it and I was wondering what criteria she uses to determine when the Spirit is upon her. I was commenting on my personal views or criteria. Let me ask you: How do you know when the Spirit is upon you as opposed to say some feeling of euphoria brought on by the musical style or the manner of preaching? How do we distinguish the work of the Spirit from the work of the flesh?

Touching God with the raising of hands is in the spiritual sense. We aren't actually touching God with our physical hands. It's like a child reaching out for their father, to love and be loved.

So if it is a spiritual sense of touching God, what purpose does raising of hands serve? Why not just raise spiritual hands?

Again, I am not being accusatory. I am wondering if people have actually thought through this biblically and why they say what they do.

 

[thomas15]

I have no problem with raising hands and even shouting amen as long as it doesn't get too out of hand. I'm far from being a charismatic though. Over use is annoying.

I never thought about this before, but it seems hard to imagine someone raising hands and awaying left to right during a rousing rendition of When the Role is Called up Yonder.

 

[Pastor Larry]

You should never tell someone how to give God praise.

So David was wrong when he told people to sing or raise hands in the psalms? Isn't the job of the pastor to teach the people how to give God praise?

Praise to God is a personal thing between you and God.

So why do the Psalms focus on corporate praise and worship rather than personal?

I think a lot of corporate worship services aren't corporate at all. They are collections of individuals having private moments with God. I am not sure that is biblical.

If there is no "feeling", then you can have it.

How do you distinguish this feeling from feelings brought on by other things? (I keep asking hoping someone will answer.)

As for me and my house we will serve the Lord by giving Him praise.

I think we should all do that. That is hardly the question here.

Some are ashame to show emotions, well they don't need to go to Heaven then, for they sure will be praising God over there and won't need a preacher or pastor either.

Isn't this a little bit harsh? What if someone people praise God without outward shows of emotion? Is that not acceptable?

Again, my concern is not with raising hands per se, but with the corporate nature of worship.

 

[Pastor Larry]

Some are ashame to show emotions, well they don't need to go to Heaven then, for they sure will be praising God over there and won't need a preacher or pastor either.

why do you think that is?

 

[Amy.G]

Quote:
I feel that singing and listening to the preaching is part of corporate worship and raising hands is private worship. IMHO.

Pastor Larry:

OK. Based on what? And does the mean that you object to raising hands in corporate worship?

I was speaking of raising hands in the corporate worship. But, when I raise my hands, it's a private moment of worship between just me and God. It's within the corporate worship, but it's private. Confusing? :laugh:
Based on what? Based on me and my woship of God. Based on scripture that speaks of raising hands in praise.

Pastor Larry:

Because Saggy made a comment about it and I was wondering what criteria she uses to determine when the Spirit is upon her. I was commenting on my personal views or criteria. Let me ask you: How do you know when the Spirit is upon you as opposed to say some feeling of euphoria brought on by the musical style or the manner of preaching? How do we distinguish the work of the Spirit from the work of the flesh?

I know when the Spirit of God is on me, because I know God and He knows me. It happens when there is NO music, NO preaching, just me and God. It's not a fleshly thing. I know what love feels like. How is possible to know God and have His Spirit living in you and feel no emotion toward Him?

Pastor Larry:

So if it is a spiritual sense of touching God, what purpose does raising of hands serve? Why not just raise spiritual hands?

Well, by the same token, if we love God, why do anything in the physical sense? Why say prayers out loud? Why help a brother or sister in need? Why not just say "I love you spiritually"? I believe love is manifested in deeds. Raising hands is an expression of love, like kissing your wife on the cheek or saying "I love you".

 

[Pastor Larry]

I was speaking of raising hands in the corporate worship. But, when I raise my hands, it's a private moment of worship between just me and God. It's within the corporate worship, but it's private. Confusing?

I think this is the major problem I have with raising of hands. I admittedly am up in the air on this and I don't have a problem if someone does though it is not the culture of our church. But I am not sure that private worship should be part of corporate worship. Would it be appropriate in corporate worship for someone to start praying out loud? Or prostrate themselves in the aisle? I don't think so. though I do both of those things privately.

Based on what? Based on me and my woship of God. Based on scripture that speaks of raising hands in praise.

But what makes it okay for an individual to have a private expression of worship in a corporate setting?

I know when the Spirit of God is on me, because I know God and He knows me. It happens when there is NO music, NO preaching, just me and God. It's not a fleshly thing. I know what love feels like. How is possible to know God and have His Spirit living in you and feel no emotion toward Him?

But again, what are the criteria for that? How would you teach someone to recognize it?

Well, by the same token, if we love God, why do anything in the physical sense? Why say prayers out loud? Why help a brother or sister in need? Why not just say "I love you spiritually"? I believe love is manifested in deeds. Raising hands is an expression of love, like kissing your wife on the cheek or saying "I love you".

I think praying out loud and helping a brother or sister are two different kinds of things.

 

[Amy.G]

Pastor Larry:

think this is the major problem I have with raising of hands. I admittedly am up in the air on this and I don't have a problem if someone does though it is not the culture of our church. But I am not sure that private worship should be part of corporate worship. Would it be appropriate in corporate worship for someone to start praying out loud? Or prostrate themselves in the aisle? I don't think so. though I do both of those things privately.

Would it be appropriate for someone to pray and praise God privately during the worship service? Are we forbidden to do that because we are in a corporate setting? Should we ignore the moving of the Spirit in our hearts until we get home? There is to be order in the service, but we can't push the Holy Spirit out of the worship service because we are too rigid to let Him in.


Pastor Larry:

But what makes it okay for an individual to have a private expression of worship in a corporate setting?

Why isn't it ok? Even though we are the body of Christ, the church, we are still His individual children.

Pastor Larry:

But again, what are the criteria for that? How would you teach someone to recognize it?

I don't think you can teach someone to recognize the Spirit. If you don't know God, you will never understand. Did someone teach you what it feels like to love your children?

Pastor Larry:

I think praying out loud and helping a brother or sister are two different kinds of things.

They are different things, but both are a physical (not just spiritual) expression of love towards God.

 

[TCGreek]

Pastor Larry:

Would it be appropriate for someone to pray and praise God privately during the worship service? Are we forbidden to do that because we are in a corporate setting? Should we ignore the moving of the Spirit in our hearts until we get home? There is to be order in the service, but we can't push the Holy Spirit out of the worship service because we are too rigid to let Him in.

The OT should instruct us on how to worship God. Yes, I know that we are under a New Covenant. But when Paul wrote 2 Tim. 3"16, 17, he was referring to the OT and of course the NT in priniciple.

The OT has a lot to teach us about what it means to worship a majestic and wonderful God. The book of Psalms in particular, the hymnal of the people of God, has so much to say about worship, including lifting hands and dancing, ALL TO THE GLORY OF GOD.

 

[Jerome]

Handraising A to Z, by Randall VanderMey, God Talk: The Triteness and Truth in Christian Clichés.

A's hand unfurls like a small flag.
B pumps his fist in a "right on" salute.
C's hand rotates slowly like a radar dish.
D's hands form a basket overhead, as if to catch a baby.
E holds his hands high, cupped and side by side, as if offering his wrists to be cuffed.
F wags her hand "hello" to God.
G slices the air like one of Hitler's underlings.
H's hand comes up straight and whole, like the red flag on a mailbox.
I's hand springs up quickly and off cue like an ice-fishing flag.
J's swaying body waves her hands like strands of kelp.
K makes a fist behind his head, as bicyclists do at the finish line.
L looks as if he's just heard through a bullhorn: "Come out with your hands up."
M keeps his elbows high as if to have his pockets frisked.
N looks like the guy in the first car on every roller coaster.
O's uplifted face and palms appear to soak in a spring rain.
P, with the outstretched hands, resembles Superman in flight.
Q leans her head along her arm like a swimmer doing the side*stroke.
R might be Rocky on the steps of the Philadelphia Museum of Art.
S's palms cover her brows.
Ts hands seem to push away the Evil One.
U's hands support two full bags of groceries.
V's spread fingertips appear to be lifting panels of acoustical tile.
W's arms haul in bales of grace from heaven.
X's fingers twiddle like a belly dancer's with finger cymbals.
Y puts an arm up like the know-it-all at the back of the classroom.
Z conducts a dream orchestra.

 

[Amy.G]

The OT should instruct us on how to worship God. Yes, I know that we are under a New Covenant. But when Paul wrote 2 Tim. 3"16, 17, he was referring to the OT and of course the NT in priniciple.

The OT has a lot to teach us about what it means to worship a majestic and wonderful God. The book of Psalms in particular, the hymnal of the people of God, has so much to say about worship, including lifting hands and dancing, ALL TO THE GLORY OF GOD.

Agreed. I think of David dancing in the streets and his wife looking out the window and thinking he was acting like a fool. I don't remember the exact passage.

 

[WaltRiceJr]

There is to be order in the service, but we can't push the Holy Spirit out of the worship service because we are too rigid to let Him in.

Who is to say the reason the Holy Spirit isn't working in so many of our churches is because we are not actually BEING the Church, the Body, and are just a collection of individualists who happen to share a core set of our individual religious beliefs?

I'm with Pastor Larry on the concept that corporate worship is intended to be corporate. If I, as a worship leader, ask the congregation to stand, I expect the congregation to stand. Not because they HAVE to, but because we do this together, and they've chosen me to lead them in it. If we do a responsive reading, the congregation is expected to respond, and not just those who feel like it!

Now to go the other way, it is true that the raising of hands often becomes an individualized piece of corporate worship, and I'm ok with that. Contrast singing styles in most of our churches. If you're in an organized choir, uniformity is expected, and you sing the part assigned to you. It isn't unnatural, it isn't not worship -- it is the way a choir worships! In congregation singing, one usually has more freedom to choose what vocal parts to sing, and how loud. (But to suddenly "feel the Spirit" and switch to your Operatic Baritone rendition of How Great Thou Art serves as a distraction to the body.)

I don't think you can teach someone to recognize the Spirit. If you don't know God, you will never understand. Did someone teach you what it feels like to love your children?

You may not have to be taught how to love your children, but society has decent standards by which to determine if you do and are! Not always perfect, but tools for distinguishing true from false.

As for the Spirit, indeed we have those methods. The fruits of the Spirit are one test, as well as the passage in 1 John 4. For instance, think of the case of one Spirit-filled hand raiser draws the attention of the deacons, who ask, nicely, that said hand-raiser be more reserved in worship. If the person responds with arrogance or indignance at "how dare the deacons tell me how to worship God," then I think you've got a decent answer as to the true nature of this spirit. (If you think that one should be incensed in such a situation, that's an entirely different conversation!)

 

[Amy.G]

Who is to say the reason the Holy Spirit isn't working in so many of our churches is because we are not actually BEING the Church, the Body, and are just a collection of individualists who happen to share a core set of our individual religious beliefs?

I'm with Pastor Larry on the concept that corporate worship is intended to be corporate. If I, as a worship leader, ask the congregation to stand, I expect the congregation to stand. Not because they HAVE to, but because we do this together, and they've chosen me to lead them in it. If we do a responsive reading, the congregation is expected to respond, and not just those who feel like it!

Now to go the other way, it is true that the raising of hands often becomes an individualized piece of corporate worship, and I'm ok with that. Contrast singing styles in most of our churches. If you're in an organized choir, uniformity is expected, and you sing the part assigned to you. It isn't unnatural, it isn't not worship -- it is the way a choir worships! In congregation singing, one usually has more freedom to choose what vocal parts to sing, and how loud. (But to suddenly "feel the Spirit" and switch to your Operatic Baritone rendition of How Great Thou Art serves as a distraction to the body.)



You may not have to be taught how to love your children, but society has decent standards by which to determine if you do and are! Not always perfect, but tools for distinguishing true from false.

As for the Spirit, indeed we have those methods. The fruits of the Spirit are one test, as well as the passage in 1 John 4. For instance, think of the case of one Spirit-filled hand raiser draws the attention of the deacons, who ask, nicely, that said hand-raiser be more reserved in worship. If the person responds with arrogance or indignance at "how dare the deacons tell me how to worship God," then I think you've got a decent answer as to the true nature of this spirit. (If you think that one should be incensed in such a situation, that's an entirely different conversation!)

I'm not sure what I said that makes you think that I am against corporate worship or following along with singing and prayer. I am all for those things. I am all for order in the service. I was only explaining how I feel about the raising of hands, not trying to argue. If others feel differently, that's fine.

 

[pinoybaptist]

Same 7 words sung 11 times - or is it the same 11 words sung 7 times? You know -- the newer praise music where some worship leaders just keep singing the chorus over and over and over

Ohhhh....now I learned something new again.
Oooopppss....I mean the terminology. Come to think of it, that's the way my sister and her church sings.
Kinda like raising the emotion and all that stuff.
I have really felt awkward raising hands and looking at someone raising hands while in church service, and I guess my animosity for this act is mainly personal.

My sister is Pentecostal/Full Gospel up to now, and she and I never got along really well because she doesn't like Baptists (of any persuasion). And I've attended their worship services and didn't like it all that well, and they raised hands so I guess that's why I don't like raising hands also.

But, I will not go out on a limb and tell anyone not to do that.

If they feel more "spiritual", then that's their problem. If I feel their "spirituality" is getting beyond what I can tolerate, then I'll just leave quietly.

 

[Pastor Larry]

Would it be appropriate for someone to pray and praise God privately during the worship service? Are we forbidden to do that because we are in a corporate setting? Should we ignore the moving of the Spirit in our hearts until we get home? There is to be order in the service, but we can't push the Holy Spirit out of the worship service because we are too rigid to let Him in.

The question is about public displays of private worship in a corporate setting. I am not sure that we should encourage that.

Why isn't it ok?

Because we are worshipping corporately.

I don't think you can teach someone to recognize the Spirit. If you don't know God, you will never understand. Did someone teach you what it feels like to love your children?

I think you can teach someone and I think it has nothing to do with feelings.

 

[Pastor Larry]

Agreed. I think of David dancing in the streets and his wife looking out the window and thinking he was acting like a fool. I don't remember the exact passage.

Isn't this a good reason to keep private things private?

 

[Amy.G]

Isn't this a good reason to keep private things private?

Are you saying David was wrong? I think the wife is the one with the problem, but that is MY opinion.

There is no right or wrong in the raising of hands, or not raising hands. That's why I call it a personal thing. If it is uncomfortable for you, then by all means don't do it. At my church it is acceptable. As long as things are orderly in the worship service, I see nothing wrong with raising my hands. That doesn't make me a better or worse Christian than the person sitting next to me who would never raise their hands. If I visit someone's church where it is not accepted, I won't do it out of respect.
This is something we should definitely not judge one another on.
I have only given my personal opinion on the subject. Others may differ from me and that's ok.
Now, I have been to Pentacostal churches where just about anything goes and I do not approve of that, because it is disorderly and IMHO does not honor God, but again that is my own view. It doesn't mean that those people are more or less spiritual than me.