Raising Hands in Worship

[Amy.G]

Quote:
Why isn't it ok?

Pastor Larry:

Because we are worshipping corporately.

If raising hands is done corporately, is it ok?

 

[Pastor Larry]

Are you saying David was wrong? I think the wife is the one with the problem, but that is MY opinion.

I think David was at least unwise in that particular instance.

There is no right or wrong in the raising of hands, or not raising hands. That's why I call it a personal thing. If it is uncomfortable for you, then by all means don't do it. At my church it is acceptable. As long as things are orderly in the worship service, I see nothing wrong with raising my hands. That doesn't make me a better or worse Christian than the person sitting next to me who would never raise their hands. If I visit someone's church where it is not accepted, I won't do it out of respect.

My only question is about the corporate vs individual nature of it.

Now, I have been to Pentacostal churches where just about anything goes and I do not approve of that, because it is disorderly and IMHO does not honor God, but again that is my own view. It doesn't mean that those people are more or less spiritual than me.

So what is the difference? If these people are just personally worshipping God, why do you judge them this way? (Again, not accusatory ... I hate having to say that but some of you will judge me wrongly.)

If raising hands is done corporately, is it ok?

Yes. I would say this is not even questionable. The question is about a non-uniform use of it.

 

[Amy.G]

So what is the difference? If these people are just personally worshipping God, why do you judge them this way? (Again, not accusatory ... I hate having to say that but some of you will judge me wrongly.)

I'm not judging them. That's why I said it was "my view". But, the Bible makes it clear that we are to worship in an orderly manner, not causing confusion. If people are running around and falling on the floor, that to me is confusion. But, I do not have the right to judge their relationship with God.

 

[Brother Bob]

Quote:
You should never tell someone how to give God praise.
PL: So David was wrong when he told people to sing or raise hands in the psalms? Isn't the job of the pastor to teach the people how to give God praise?

No, This is not what I meant at all and I really think you know it. Job of the Pastor to teach people how to worship God? Partly, but sometimes we pray for the Lord to teach us what to pray for. He that lacketh wisdom, let him ask of God. I do not try to go back to the "High Priest" days, when they all had to go through him to get to God.
Quote:
Praise to God is a personal thing between you and God.
PL; So why do the Psalms focus on corporate praise and worship rather than personal?

Well, was the corporate there when you were trying to make peace with God, or do they have to go through the "high preist" here on earth.
Salvation is of the Lord and He is our High preist.
Of course we join together to worship God. What I am saying is worship God by yourself, with someone, however. Just give God the praise.

Whe Paul said "by the grace of God, I am what I am", was that a personal thing?


PL; I think a lot of corporate worship services aren't corporate at all. They are collections of individuals having private moments with God. I am not sure that is biblical.


Quote:
If there is no "feeling", then you can have it.
PL; How do you distinguish this feeling from feelings brought on by other things? (I keep asking hoping someone will answer.)

My answer to this is, if you have never felt it, I couldn't teach you, and if you have felt it, you don't need me to teach you!

Hbr 2:12Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.

Would you really want me to paste all the scripture praising God Individually.

Or, I could paste them praising God corporate, either way, give God the praise for it all.

 

[blackbird]

Yesterday at church our song leader paused in between songs and read two scriptures that seemed to advocate the raising of hands in worship. He said that God wants us to raise our hands. The verses seemed like they were pretty clear, one from 1 or 2 timothy that said, "I would that men pray everywhere lifting up holy hands without wrath and doubting", and another verse extracted from the Psalms.

What are your thoughts on this? Is raising hands ok in worship? Is it mandatory in worship? Does the Bible strictly command it, or do the verses that talk about 'raising hands' mean something else? Do you raise your hands in worship?

This seems like a relatively new trend. Does anyone know when this started?

I believe the key to the whole context of what Paul tells his readers is this----"lifting up HOLY hands WITHOUT WRATH AND DOUBTING"

Some people insist on raising of hands in praise---well, I would suppose we need to examine ourselves beforehand to make sure its really holy hands we are raising---and that they are raised without wrath and without doubting.

Does no good to raise hands that are not holy

Does no good to raise hands with wrath in the heart

Does no good to raise hands with hearts of doubt.

But what provision has the soldier whos arms have been blasted away in war??

What provision has the person who has suffered stroke and is no longer able to lift hands.

What provision has folks like Joni Erickson Tadi???

A good examination of the epistle of the Hebrews will direct the reader to the hands of the heart!!!

 

[Pastor Larry]

I'm not judging them.

So calling them disorderly is not a judgment? I have no problem with judgment. I think it is commnaded. But let's call it what it is.

 

[Pastor Larry]

No, This is not what I meant at all and I really think you know it. Job of the Pastor to teach people how to worship God? Partly, but sometimes we pray for the Lord to teach us what to pray for. He that lacketh wisdom, let him ask of God. I do not try to go back to the "High Priest" days, when they all had to go through him to get to God.

No I didn't know what you mean. I still don't. this makes no sense to me.

Well, was the corporate there when you were trying to make peace with God, or do they have to go through the "high preist" here on earth.
Salvation is of the Lord and He is our High preist.
Of course we join together to worship God. What I am saying is worship God by yourself, with someone, however. Just give God the praise.

Whe Paul said "by the grace of God, I am what I am", was that a personal thing?

I think you are missing the point. My point is that not that we have no personal worship. I raise my hands, prostrate myself, talk out loud and all kinds of things in personal worship. I don't do it in corporate worship.

My answer to this is, if you have never felt it, I couldn't teach you, and if you have felt it, you don't need me to teach you!

Which is meaningless. Someone says, "I got the Spirit last night." How would you know if he is telling you the truth? I had a guy tell me that one time when he was living with his girlfriend (who we disciplined out of the church for it). He had the "feeling," but it wasn't the Spirit. People who laugh and bark claim to have the feeling. How do you know it?

Would you really want me to paste all the scripture praising God Individually.

You can ... But that's not under discussion here. Again, my questions are not about whether we should praise God privately. We should. My question is about whether or not corporate worship should contain elements that are not corporate.

 

[Amy.G]

So calling them disorderly is not a judgment? I have no problem with judgment. I think it is commnaded. But let's call it what it is.

Fine. If that's what you want to call it. I don't feel judgemental in my heart, but whatever. I think I'm entitled to my own opinion, but as has been told to me many times on the BB......Amy, your wrong. So, maybe I'm wrong.

 

[Amy.G]

I believe the key to the whole context of what Paul tells his readers is this----"lifting up HOLY hands WITHOUT WRATH AND DOUBTING"

Some people insist on raising of hands in praise---well, I would suppose we need to examine ourselves beforehand to make sure its really holy hands we are raising---and that they are raised without wrath and without doubting.

Does no good to raise hands that are not holy

Does no good to raise hands with wrath in the heart

Does no good to raise hands with hearts of doubt.

But what provision has the soldier whos arms have been blasted away in war??

What provision has the person who has suffered stroke and is no longer able to lift hands.

What provision has folks like Joni Erickson Tadi???

A good examination of the epistle of the Hebrews will direct the reader to the hands of the heart!!!

I do not understand this post. If you don't have hands, you can't lift them up. But, for those of us who do, is it wrong to lift them?

 

[Pastor Larry]

Fine. If that's what you want to call it. I don't feel judgemental in my heart, but whatever. I think I'm entitled to my own opinion, but as has been told to me many times on the BB......Amy, your wrong. So, maybe I'm wrong.

I am not saying you're wrong. I am asking for biblical support for acts of individual worship to be carried out in corporate worship.

My inclination is to have no problem with people raising hands in worship, but this thread has not encouraged me in that since there has been no biblical support for it put forth.

My issue is when it becomes distracting. I was at a conference recently where I stood behind a woman who had her hands raised, head thrown back, and pelvis gyrating to the music. Some would say I should pay attention. I couldn't help it. She was standing less than three feet in front of me drawing attention to herself whether she meant to or not. IMO, that has no place in corporate worship. Somebody brought up David's dance. This was what I pictured with that. It was very distracting and very inappropriate for corporate worship.

 

[Amy.G]

I am not saying you're wrong. I am asking for biblical support for acts of individual worship to be carried out in corporate worship.

My inclination is to have no problem with people raising hands in worship, but this thread has not encouraged me in that since there has been no biblical support for it put forth.

My issue is when it becomes distracting. I was at a conference recently where I stood behind a woman who had her hands raised, head thrown back, and pelvis gyrating to the music. Some would say I should pay attention. I couldn't help it. She was standing less than three feet in front of me drawing attention to herself whether she meant to or not. IMO, that has no place in corporate worship. Somebody brought up David's dance. This was what I pictured with that. It was very distracting and very inappropriate for corporate worship.

I don't think raising hands in corporate worship is distracting if it's an acceptable practice in a particular church. I think we all worship individually during corporate worship in some way. I sometimes stop singing and praise God silently without disturbing anyone. In my church raising hands is not distracting because a lot of people do it, it's part of the way we worship. I guess it just depends on the church you attend.

 

[Brother Bob]

Quote:
My answer to this is, if you have never felt it, I couldn't teach you, and if you have felt it, you don't need me to teach you!
Which is meaningless. Someone says, "I got the Spirit last night." How would you know if he is telling you the truth? I had a guy tell me that one time when he was living with his girlfriend (who we disciplined out of the church for it). He had the "feeling," but it wasn't the Spirit. People who laugh and bark claim to have the feeling. How do you know it?

Why on earth would you need to doubt him. Just say "good for you" and go on with your life.

No, This is not what I meant at all and I really think you know it. Job of the Pastor to teach people how to worship God? Partly, but sometimes we pray for the Lord to teach us what to pray for. He that lacketh wisdom, let him ask of God. I do not try to go back to the "High Priest" days, when they all had to go through him to get to God. No I didn't know what you mean. I still don't. this makes no sense to me.

I guess it is quite confusing. I am just saying lets worship God in Spirit and in truth and keep it simple.

Quote:
My answer to this is, if you have never felt it, I couldn't teach you, and if you have felt it, you don't need me to teach you!
Which is meaningless. Someone says, "I got the Spirit last night." How would you know if he is telling you the truth? I had a guy tell me that one time when he was living with his girlfriend (who we disciplined out of the church for it). He had the "feeling," but it wasn't the Spirit. People who laugh and bark claim to have the feeling. How do you know it?

For me, is all I can speak for. My heart feels with joy and complete peace, not a angry bone in my body, just have all my thoughts in being so grateful to the Lord, for all he has given. A dying man, can have that same peace and joy if he is one of God's children. I prayed to die once, because of so much pain going through the last heart surgery. I could see peace, but couldn't reach it, so I ask God to please let me die, so I could rest a while. Do you see a little what I mean Pastor Larry?

You can ... But that's not under discussion here. Again, my questions are not about whether we should praise God privately. We should. My question is about whether or not corporate worship should contain elements that are not corporate.

At our church we don't go crazy, but if a sister become overjoyed and says "bless you Lord", we just let it flow throughout the house. We don't try to get people to do it, we don't try to "milk" people into doing it. It just happens when we feel the Spirit. Those are the kind of meetings that feed me for a while. Sometimes I get shouted down because of the Spirit. I don't know what you think about that, but it closes out our meetings many times. Yesterday, I preached on Little Ruth and a brother started the rejoicing, but it went through the house, and we all went home with that "feeling" like being "high on a mountain". I am afraid you will think we are charasmatic (sp), but no, we just all say "thank you Lord".

1 Thes;

16: Rejoice evermore.
17: Pray without ceasing.
18: In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.
19: Quench not the Spirit.
20: Despise not prophesyings.
21: Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
22: Abstain from all appearance of evil.
23: And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
24

 

[Amy.G]

Bro. Bob:

At our church we don't go crazy, but if a sister become overjoyed and says "bless you Lord", we just let it flow throughout the house. We don't try to get people to do it, we don't try to "milk" people into doing it. It just happens when we feel the Spirit. Those are the kind of meetings that feed me for a while. Sometimes I get shouted down because of the Spirit. I don't know what you think about that, but it closes out our meetings many times. Yesterday, I preached on Little Ruth and a brother started the rejoicing, but it went through the house, and we all went home with that "feeling" like being "high on a mountain". I am afraid you will think we are charasmatic (sp), but no, we just all say "thank you Lord".

This is the way it is at our church as well. Sometimes, someone will ask if they can sing a song, or say a prayer, or ask for prayer and annointing. Someone may shout an amen or praise God. It's not planned, but it's not disorderly. I believe this is how God intended for meetings to go, led by the Spirit. raying:

 

[drfuss]

I don't think raising hands in corporate worship is distracting if it's an acceptable practice in a particular church. I think we all worship individually during corporate worship in some way. I sometimes stop singing and praise God silently without disturbing anyone. In my church raising hands is not distracting because a lot of people do it, it's part of the way we worship. I guess it just depends on the church you attend.

Up until about 10 years ago, our church had only corporate "worship". We sang from the song book, had prayer, special music and the sermon. We had a good song leader, but not a worship leader, IMO. We got a new minister of music who encouraged us to worship by setting the example of raising hands and closing eyes. From the older people, there was much criticism. Some even objected to others closing their eyes while worshipping. It seems they just wanted to continue going through the motions of corporate worship only.

However, individuals worshipping during the service caught on. Many who previously criticized, started entering into the worship and were blessed. It seems that the very people who were so critical of the new minister of music before, were the ones who loved and respected him the most.

Now our church has many who raise their hands and individually praise the Lord during the "worship" part of the service. It is all done in order and is not disruptive to anyone. Of course, our pastors support it.

If we go to church to worship the Lord and we don't worship individually, are we really worshipping the Lord or are we just going through the motions of corporate worship?

 

[LadyEagle]

If you don't have hands, you can't lift them up.

You can lift up your hands in praise in your heart.

I've even raised my hand (not hands :laugh: ) while driving and listening to Christian music. I thank God for those times. raying:

Me, too, Praise God! Beats talking on a cell phone in traffic!!

 

[Amy.G]

dr.fuss:

If we go to church to worship the Lord and we don't worship individually, are we really worshipping the Lord or are we just going through the motions of corporate worship?

Good point. How can it be any other way? Corporate worship is really individual worship in a group setting. Many voices praising God but on an individual basis. Did that makes sense?

 

[Amy.G]

You can lift up your hands in praise in your heart.

Absolutely!!

:wavey: <-----------praising God!

 

[Brother Bob]

beautiful................

 

[Pastor Larry]

Why on earth would you need to doubt him. Just say "good for you" and go on with your life.

I didn't doubt him. A guy who is living in open immorality does not have the Spirit, no matter what he feels like. Isn't it interesting that in teh Bible, the Spirit is never about feelings.

I am just saying lets worship God in Spirit and in truth and keep it simple.

I agree.

Do you see a little what I mean Pastor Larry?

I am not necessarily arguing with you. I am posing the question about distinguishing the Spirit from spirits or emotions, or feeligns.

Sometimes I get shouted down because of the Spirit.

That seems contrary to the Bible. I see no place in the Bible where the pastor preaching the word gets shouted down. In fact, when that happens, it seems like it because the Word isn't getting much respect. I don't know about your case so I am not commenting directly on that. But I wonder if the Spirit isn't geting blamed for stuff He has nothing to do with.

 

[Pastor Larry]

Now our church has many who raise their hands and individually praise the Lord during the "worship" part of the service.

What do you mean by "during the worship part of the service." What other part is there?