Rapture or Apostacy?

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Why the need for privacy? What is this 'inflammatory statement' you're referring to?

I am not going to annoy anyone by repeating their nonsense in an open accusation. Suffice to let the party decide to let it drop.

 

[agedman]

Why the need for privacy? What is this 'inflammatory statement' you're referring to?

Perhaps disconnected is pointing to two areas in which we have disagreed.

One is on how to count (look back on this thread a few posts).

The other is on what constitutes family unity (look back on the thread "wives" for that contention).

As all matters on the BB, we have views, we express views, folks who agree or disagree will express views, and sometimes it is good manners to just let a matter drop - hoping that the other person will be shown by the Holy Spirit the truth. Interestingly, the truth is often not what either expected but emerges as maturity and growth in Christ takes place.

There may be some other issue that disconnected is posting about, and I may have surmised wrongly.

 

[OldRegular]

That's it! Well, except the first "return" isn't really a return, as His feet do not touch the Earth. We rise to meet Him in the air. And these events are at least seven years apart.

John F. Walvoord, a dispensational theologian and former president of the Dallas Theological Seminary insists there are FIVE resurrections [ Major Bible Prophecies, page 376ff].

 

[OldRegular]

You see the action as taking place then, because you desire to see it that way.

I see the seventh and last trumpet of Revelation 11:15 as the last trumpet of 1 Corinthians 15:52.

Revelation 12 is about the birth of Jesus Christ, His sacrificial death, and the Church!. And there are really no timelines in Revelation.

Revelation 12:1-5
1. And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
2. And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
3. And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4. And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
5. And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

 

[OldRegular]

well, paul answered if the Lord had forever cast away/off His people isreal didn't he in Romans?

Paul was talking about the elect of Israel. In fact I met one of the elect of Israel several years ago. She married my nephew. She went home to be with her Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, three years ago!

And how would we see the Kingdom fully established here on earth as the OT prophets foresaw/told, based upon just how much evil and sin is allowed in world right now by the Lord, and that is NOT what the reign of Messiah look like!

The Eternal Kingdom will be fully established after the Second Coming of Jesus Christ. The Jews, or Israel, rejected Him at His First Coming. If any are to be saved it will be before His Second Coming and there is no in-between coming.

The whole idea that the Church would be taken out of the world implies that the Church failed and 144,000 Jews would preach a second Gospel of the Kingdom to the world. Nonsense! You may believe that but I don't.

 

[OldRegular]

There will be those who die during the millennial reign, for there is no scripture that indicates the lifting of the 70 year life span designated after the flood by God.

There have been many millions, perhaps billions, who have already died during the millennial age! If the Lord tarries long I will probably die in this millennial age!

 

[OldRegular]

"

When is the ONLY time there is no ethnic separation of believers?

The millennium.

That is incorrect aged man. There is no ethnic separation of believers in the Church.

Galatians 3:26-29
26. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29. And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

You might also check Ephesians 2.

 

[agedman]

That is incorrect aged man. There is no ethnic separation of believers in the Church.

Galatians 3:26-29
26. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29. And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

You might also check Ephesians 2.

You are correct.

IN THE CHURCH there are no "ethnic differences."

Although, in the Scriptures, Paul states in Galatians (working from feeble memory) that Paul was a missionary to the uncircumcised, and Peter to the circumcised. So even the Scriptures do indicate a ethnic division that continues at this time.

However, I was addressing that Israel, which is now estranged - both by history of persecution and by blindness imposed by God - from the church, though there were and are a remnant of Jews who embrace the truth.

You disagree because you consider the church is Israel - I do not.

Also, I was addressing that during the millennial reign, the church and Israel will be united into a single believing body - no longer estranged from each other or from God.

You disagree because you don't consider that there will be a future 1000 year reign.

That is why I can agree with your statement and proof of Paul, yet still hold to what I stated as factual.

My thinking of Romans is that the gentiles are grafted into Israel.

Paul is very specific concerning the political Israel in its current state:

11 I say then, God has not rejected His people, has He? May it never be! For I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew....


11 I say then, they did not stumble so as to fall, did they? May it never be! But by their transgression salvation has come to the Gentiles, to make them jealous. 12 Now if their transgression is riches for the world and their failure is riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their fulfillment be! ...


19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. ...

25 For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery—so that you will not be wise in your own estimation—that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in; 26 and so all Israel will be saved; just as it is written, ...



28 From the standpoint of the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but from the standpoint of God’s choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers; 29 for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. ...


30 For just as you once were disobedient to God, but now have been shown mercy because of their disobedience, 31 so these also now have been disobedient, that because of the mercy shown to you they also may now be shown mercy. 32 For God has shut up all in disobedience so that He may show mercy to all.
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I am not wrong, you just perceive me as being wrong because of the direction you are facing while we both stand on the same rock and look at the horizon.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

... I may have surmised wrongly.

You did. But that's not surprising.

 

[agedman]

You did. But that's not surprising.

Ok, not an unfamiliar condition anymore.

More frequently, I forget what I looked like in the mirror and am surprised by a stranger looking at me each time I pass one.