Rapture - The Poll

[SaggyWoman]

I know He is coming........

 

[MB]

If you are talking about Revelation 1:7 how do you reconcile that "every eye shall see him" with your secret rapture theory?

I never said the rapture was going to be done in secret. The Rapture certainly isn't a secret but will happen right before the eyes of the whole world. The only secret I know of is when it will happen.

Why are you building a strawman out of what i said regarding believers being spared God's wrath? I never said believers are or would be spared persecution did I?

Actually you did say;

The children of Israel were in Egypt while God brought the plagues yet they were spared in the midst of it. In the same way the people of God will suffer tribulation in this world,

If they suffer in the same way they would be spared.

How do you reconcile your idea that only the "two witnesses" are preaching the gospel with your statement that there are multitudes getting martyred? Will they be killed because of their silence?

After the rapture the only two Christians left will be the two witnesses.

Martyrs will be killed for non compliance with the laws of that day. They will either take the number of the beast or they will die. Most will take the number because of ignorance. all who do not have the number will be executed. Those who do take the number go to hell for it.

If the 144,000 are really only Jews then why did John get the list of the tribes wrong? Of only 144,000 get saved why does John see a "multitude which noone could number" stand before the throne that specifically came out of "great tribulation" in Rev 7:14?

Ever try to count 144000 people all grouped together?. A very darting task I would say. People do not stand still long enough to be counted.

And the big question: Why are we only talking in questions?

To answer a question correctly we have to think about it first.

I know i said i was done for the night but i couldn't help myself

I hope you slept well
MB

 

[RLBosley]

I never said the rapture was going to be done in secret. The Rapture certainly isn't a secret but will happen right before the eyes of the whole world. The only secret I know of is when it will happen.

So you think Christ will be visible during the pre-trib rapture? Thats different

Actually the timing isn't secret either:
Mark 13:24-27 Immediately after the tribulation...gather the elect
2 Thess 2 Our gathering together...shall not come until first there is a falling away and the man of sin be revealed

Actually you did say;

If they suffer in the same way they would be spared.

I wasn't very clear. Believers will be spared God's wrath but they aren't spared persecution. So God can and will protect believers from His judgment, but not from the persecution of the wicked. The Great Tribulation is primarily a period of persecution against the Church. The church has had tribulation since it was created yet we are still spared Gods wrath.

After the rapture the only two Christians left will be the two witnesses

.

So if only the two witnesses are Christians during the "tribulation" what are the 144000?

Martyrs will be killed for non compliance with the laws of that day. They will either take the number of the beast or they will die. Most will take the number because of ignorance. all who do not have the number will be executed. Those who do take the number go to hell for it.

So no believers period? Then why call them martyrs?

Ever try to count 144000 people all grouped together?. A very darting task I would say. People do not stand still long enough to be counted.

You seem to be on the right track sort of when it comes to these two groups (144000 and numberless multitude). But you never answered my question, if these really are Jews then why did John (a Jew remember) get the name of the tribes wrong?

I hope you slept well
MB

I did

 

[go2church]

Amil here though I am starting to be sympathetic toward the preterist point of view. Haven't been convinced of an early writing of Revelation, still hold to a mid 90's date instead of a late 60's date.

 

[glazer1972]

Pretribulation

 

[12strings]

I do not have an eschatalogical position...I don't understand that stuff.

 

[righteousdude2]

I was going to check post trib, when out of nowhere; I started floating straight up. Thank God I have a wireless keyboard. It allowed me to make this final post/comment and vote on the poll, before I was out of range!

If you're reading this, I suppose you didn't go??? :smilewinkgrin::laugh::wavey:

 

[FollowTheWay]

I know He is coming........

I'm right there with you. I have no real concern about end-days topics. Whether I am raptured tomorrow or step in front of a bus on Sat. the bottom line really is; What have I done with the Man called Jesus? Have I faithfully followed Him as He commanded me to do? I feel very comfortable at this time in my life with the thought of standing before the Judge on the Great Day. My primary wish is to hear Him say: Well done my good and faithful servant....

 

[quantumfaith]

As much as I understand all the distinctions, I think I would fall into the amill camp.

 

[quantumfaith]

I do not have an eschatalogical position...I don't understand that stuff.

:applause::applause::thumbs:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I do not have an eschatalogical position...I don't understand that stuff.

I seriously don't think anyone truly does. Most of the world would share in your opinion.:thumbs:

 

[Greektim]

I seriously don't think anyone truly does. Most of the world would share in your opinion.:thumbs:

Funny thing is, so much debate goes into that realm of theology known as eschatology when eventually that will be the one section of theology that we will have a full grasp of knowledge once all the events transpire. Yet things as magnificent as the Gospel and Jesus and God will be pondered for all eternity.

 

[Tom Butler]

I used to be pre-trib. Today I'm post-trib. Don't know what I'll be tomorrow.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Funny thing is, so much debate goes into that realm of theology known as eschatology when eventually that will be the one section of theology that we will have a full grasp of knowledge once all the events transpire. Yet things as magnificent as the Gospel and Jesus and God will be pondered for all eternity.

The best experience any Southern Christian could have is to move up North & experience it 1st hand. Still I pray that the SBC will never discover NJ or maybe ya have and its too damn hard to penetrate.

In all seriousness Tim, it is mostly carnality with a large swath being atheistic. Mostly, you would be having dialog by yourself, sorry to say.

 

[quantumfaith]

The best experience any Southern Christian could have is to move up North & experience it 1st hand. Still I pray that the SBC will never discover NJ or maybe ya have and its too damn hard to penetrate.

In all seriousness Tim, it is mostly carnality with a large swath being atheistic. Mostly, you would be having dialog by yourself, sorry to say.

No need to worry EWF, since "yall" are slim on grits.....No thanks for north.
Not to mention, I rather enjoy never having to shovel snow anymore, did that plenty growing up. Bless your little heart.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

No need to worry EWF, since "yall" are slim on grits.....No thanks for north.
Not to mention, I rather enjoy never having to shovel snow anymore, did that plenty growing up. Bless your little heart.

You would have to eat oatmeal or forgedabout it. :laugh:

 

[Gregory Perry Sr.]

Agreed...!

Premill, Pretrib,literal 1000 year reign.

Ditto THAT Bob....I do think though that the church, the body of Christ that is alive at and before the time of the Rapture will have to undergo increasing degrees of suffering and persecution for our faith. We've had it real good in this country for a long time and I see that slipping away with increasing speed as the time of the "catching away" of the church nears. I don't think we deserve, or will get a "free pass" just because we are Americans under grace in the church age. There have already been millions that have suffered and died for their faith since the time that Christ walked the earth. That is just the reality of the situation....but oh...what joys await us on the other side!!!!! We are instructed to "set our affection on things above, not on things on the earth." (see Col.3:1-4) Even so,come Lord Jesus!

Bro.Greg:thumbsup::saint:raying:

 

[Bro. James]

How about a 3/4 tribulation rapture? We know not the hour. God knows. It has not yet been two days since Jesus was here--in God's time for His Will and good pleasure.

Whatever the pico second of eternity it might be, we are admonished to be ready. The world has not a clue. Most of nominal Christianity has not a clue.

Fact: God has kept a remnant in every generation all the way back to the Flood. Also consider the millions of souls murdered during the Inquisitions--refusing to bow to Rome. We know not what persecution might be.

'All who live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution'.

The apostles did not die in retirement homes.

What are we still doing here? There are some lost sheep still out there. When the last one is called in the door will close.

'Watch and pray'

Even so, come Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

 

[MB]

So you think Christ will be visible during the pre-trib rapture? Thats different

Not during but just before. Rev.1:7

Actually the timing isn't secret either:
Mark 13:24-27 Immediately after the tribulation...gather the elect.
This elect will be those Jews saved during the trib. That's why they are referred to as elect.
2 Thess 2 Our gathering together...shall not come until first there is a falling away and the man of sin be revealed

Our gathering happens after the revealing of the Anti Christ.

I wasn't very clear. Believers will be spared God's wrath but they aren't spared persecution. So God can and will protect believers from His judgment, but not from the persecution of the wicked. The Great Tribulation is primarily a period of persecution against the Church. The church has had tribulation since it was created yet we are still spared Gods wrath.
.

So if only the two witnesses are Christians during the "tribulation" what are the 144000?

The 144000 are Jews saved during the tribulation "the remnant"

So no believers period? Then why call them martyrs?

As soon as someone accepts Christ they will be hunted down and killed. Martyrs are those who refuse to worship the beast, because they worship Christ. It will be law that everyone worship the beast

You seem to be on the right track sort of when it comes to these two groups (144000 and numberless multitude). But you never answered my question, if these really are Jews then why did John (a Jew remember) get the name of the tribes wrong?


I did

I don't know that John did get the names wrong. Which tribes name isn't right?.
MB

 

[righteousdude2]

Doesn't matter?

Premill, Pretrib,literal 1000 year reign.

I plan on being there regardless of the doctrinal differences and theology surrounding these different theories. :wavey: