Ray Boltz Comes Out

[tinytim]

So, if he showed up on Sunday, would you turn him away from hearing your sermon?

 

[Revmitchell]

So, if he showed up on Sunday, would you turn him away from hearing your sermon?

Rom 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

Rom 16:18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

 

[annsni]

But thats for God to decide, not us. Thats why I dont judge people because the moment I judge someone there are 4 fingers pointing back at me.

That's being in complete disobedience to God's command. Read 1 Corinthians 5 and you'll see what I mean.

 

[LeBuick]

I am unsure how the church can just bypass this passage and the one or two more like it.

Because we read the rest of the book...

 

[Marcia]

Well, Jesus said that we should do unto others ... etc. Seems to me that if Jesus said it then it is not a bad philosophy to follow. Guess Jesus' words are enough eh?

You ignored what dccorbett and tiny tim posted from the scriptures. It's Matt 18 and 1 cor 5. If a Christian persists in sinning without repenting, and you go to him/her but he/she does not repent, they are to be put out of fellowship. So if this Ray Boltz guy (whom I never heard of) came to church but openly endorses his lifestyle or openly practiced it and did not repent after being confronted, he could not stay.

My pastor talked about this last Sunday - putting someone out of the church that is behaving like this is an act of love because it gets the person to see their sin. Once they repent, they are to be taken back and lovingly restored. This is what we are commanded to do in scripture. If you read through 2 Cor, you see how they were allowing sin in the church to be openly practiced with no rebuke or discipline and it was destroying them spiritually and morally.

 

[LeBuick]

If a Christian persists in sinning without repenting, and you go to him/her but he/she does not repent, they are to be put out of fellowship. .

:applause: :applause:

You try to restore them first. If that does work and they "persists in sinning without repenting" then you take other action.

 

[Chessic]

Looks like he's firmly in the "God made me this way" camp.

Praying for him.

 

[North Carolina Tentmaker]

I have to disagree... Ray cannot be forgiven by God if he wallows and enjoys his sin.

Forgiveness doesn't come without repentance...

Unless Ray repents, he will be in Hell...
That is why it is important that we welcome those like him in to hear the message.

TT, do you think it impossible that Ray is saved? Certainly this revelation gives us reason to question his salvation but is it not possible that he is lost but in a backsliden position?

Is it possible for a Christian to be tempted sexually? Of course it is, if your not check your pulse.

Is it possible for a Christian to sin? Ditto.

Is it possible for a Christian to committ a homosexual sin? It has to be, fornication is fornication. If it is possible for a Christian to commit sin with a member of the opposite sex then it is possible for them to commit sin with a member of the same sex. Just because you may not be tempted in this manner don't assume no Christian ever is.

I realize that Ray's apparent lack of repentance and conviction give convincing arguments that he may not be saved we cannot know the heart of any man.

I have to disagree with you TT. If Ray goes to hell it will not be because he is a homosexual, it will be because he has refused the salvation offered him in Jesus Christ.

 

[Revmitchell]

Because we read the rest of the book...

It must have been something other than the Bible.

 

[Whowillgo]

Interesting thing about this story... He was in the closet for 30+ years and now he comes out...

I was out of the closet for 20+ years and have just decided in the last year to live my life for Christ and have turned away from the gay lifestyle.

I find the human mind a funny thing.. I fought long and hard to try to get the Bible to accept me for who I was, and even believed it for years, but in the end God won, he always does. :godisgood:

As a newly recovering gay person (what is the term I use here??) I will pray that he will find the light again and will fight the good fight to turn his life back over to Christ.

Good for you my friend, your couarge and willingness to hear God's call speaks volumes that other Christians should hear relating our so-called closet sins and there are many.

 

[tinytim]

TT, do you think it impossible that Ray is saved? Certainly this revelation gives us reason to question his salvation but is it not possible that he is lost but in a backsliden position?

Is it possible for a Christian to be tempted sexually? Of course it is, if your not check your pulse.

Is it possible for a Christian to sin? Ditto.

Is it possible for a Christian to committ a homosexual sin? It has to be, fornication is fornication. If it is possible for a Christian to commit sin with a member of the opposite sex then it is possible for them to commit sin with a member of the same sex. Just because you may not be tempted in this manner don't assume no Christian ever is.

I realize that Ray's apparent lack of repentance and conviction give convincing arguments that he may not be saved we cannot know the heart of any man.

I have to disagree with you TT. If Ray goes to hell it will not be because he is a homosexual, it will be because he has refused the salvation offered him in Jesus Christ.

YOu are ABSOLUTELY right!

I was wr....

UH.. Wro.....ron.... WRONG!

(bookmark this thread, I don't admit that much!) :laugh:

there I said it... I over reacted to the post before mine...

But you are right...

We don't go to Hell based on what we do or don't do...
We go there because we don't have Christ's blood applied to us.

But this is a very telling sign that he MAY not be saved.

 

[ForYourGlory]

This really saddens me, and I will pray for him.
Another concern of mine, would be that he may be a stumbling block to others.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

This really saddens me, and I will pray for him.
Another concern of mine, would be that he may be a stumbling block to others.

Was Michael English a stumbling block? If so Yeah its bad news.

 

[rbell]

Was Michael English a stumbling block? If so Yeah its bad news.

so as not to derail, I'll be brief...

Michael English, whose affair was just the beginning of his long and sad "fall," did what should be done: He repented, submitted himself to the accountability of others, and has gone through a process of repentance and restoration.

That takes a while, and ain't the least bit easy. If Boltz wants to go there (and apparently now, he doesn't)...it'll be a long road.

 

[donnA]

Was Michael English a stumbling block? If so Yeah its bad news.

Yes, he has been a homosexual for many years, now making it publically know, the homosexual community will use to to say homosexuality is ok, 'hey I'm christian, homosexual and I don't have to change.' Thats a stumbling block.

 

[donnA]

We don't go to Hell based on what we do or don't do...
We go there because we don't have Christ's blood applied to us.

He's been a homosexaul for 30 years. Knowing Christ, being a christian, means we are made new, we beome new creatures. We do sin as christians, but we don't love it, prefer it, andmake that same old sin a pratice in our lives. If nothing changes we were never saved, we were never christians. Seems God was and is awfully slow in making Ray Boltz a new creature and hasn't done it yet.
no we don't go to hell for our sinful actions, but when we prefer sin over God, and make that same sin a pratice in our lives, we were never christians in the first place. It sin't the sin that we go to hell for, but we have never been saved if we are pleased to continue in our sin without change without remorse without repentence for that sin.

 

[donnA]

Isn't there a 3 page limit in this forum? Or does it matter what the topic is as to whether or not a thread is closed at 3 pages? Meaning the 3 page limit rule is subjective, depending on the mood of the mod today, or what?

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Yes, he has been a homosexual for many years, now making it publically know, the homosexual community will use to to say homosexuality is ok, 'hey I'm christian, homosexual and I don't have to change.' Thats a stumbling block.

Only to the non elect.

 

[donnA]

Only to the non elect.

I think you misunderstand me. A stumbling block to christians approving this sin, or to people who beleive they are christians, when in fact they are not. A stumbling block making homosexuality look acceptable.

 

[tinytim]

Isn't there a 3 page limit in this forum? Or does it matter what the topic is as to whether or not a thread is closed at 3 pages? Meaning the 3 page limit rule is subjective, depending on the mood of the mod today, or what?

Donna, what is going on... your posts lately have been very inpatient... not like you at all.. PM me if you have something going on that I could pray for.

love ya, sis!