RC Sproul and Alcoholic Beverages

[DHK]

Simple resolution....I wouldnt have made the choice to go to a Muslem country then. And then why would I even do that when I got a mission field right here in New Jersey. An area with pubs & legal liquor stores.

If it is your desire or calling to go, then go to a Muslem country.....thats your choice. Not mine.

But let me ask you ....are you supposed to teach Christianity in those countries?

When Jesus gave the Great Commission He didn't say to go only to those nations where you are permitted to preach the gospel. Judson was not permitted to preach the gospel in Burma but he went anyway. It is said that they tried to keep the apostle Thomas from preaching the gospel in India. Eventually he was martyred for his faith.

Peter and John answered those in authority in Jerusalem:
Acts 5:29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

In chapter four they had already been ordered not to preach in his name.
Their answer:
Acts 4:19 But Peter and John answered and said unto them, Whether it be right in the sight of God to hearken unto you more than unto God, judge ye.
20 For we cannot but speak the things which we have seen and heard.

Since when did the government ever keep people from believing or preaching the gospel. How anemic has our Christianity become??

The Great Commission is for everyone.
Go ye into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.
If God has not given you a specific call to remain at home then he has called you abroad. The command is to go, not to remain.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

If God has not given you a specific call to remain at home then he has called you abroad. The command is to go, not to remain.

How do you make that assumption?

 

[Aaron]

I answered your question. You don't drink at his house.

It's pretty simple.

Paul did eat meat offered to idols. He just did not eat it in the presence of weaker brethren. Weaker brethren are people who do not have enough bible knowledge and maturity to enjoy liberty. You hope they will grow but until they do you treat them like children.

I'm not going to prolong the argument. Just cite the verse where Paul said, "I will eat no meat at his house."

 

[DHK]

How do you make that assumption?

There is no assumption involved, only a command.

Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Where is the command to remain at home?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

There is no assumption involved, only a command.

Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Where is the command to remain at home?

Good....then the world can be Jersey City.

And BTW, if these Muslem countries have strict laws against preaching the Word, how can you do that....are you not breaking the laws of the rulers of that or those countries?

 

[Aaron]

And so why do you think drinking is a problem?

Like I said to Luke, I'm not going to prolong the argument. In matters of alcohol especially, for reasons not the least of which is expressly and universally identified by the Spirit as a genuine matter of conscience for most of Christ's own, the abuse of which is the source of most societal ills and to which most men are most prone, and from which the abstinence costs absolutely nothing, it is telling that one is unwilling to forego this one little thing for the love of his weaker brethren.

Christ said it well, the love of many shall was cold.

 

[DHK]

Good....then the world can be Jersey City.

And BTW, if these Muslem countries have strict laws against preaching the Word, how can you do that....are you not breaking the laws of the rulers of that or those countries?

Your argument is circular, against yourself, and against the Bible.
1. The Bible commands it. Go into all nations.
2. God's laws trump man's laws.
3. "Against the law to believe" is simply religious persecution. Jesus said "in the world you shall have persecution...."
Paul said: "all who live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution."
And again: "It is given unto you not only to believe on him BUT ALSO to suffer for his sake."
Also: "We are heirs of God and joint heirs of Christ, IF SO BE, that we suffer with him."

Anemic Christians of today are not willing to suffer for Christ. Any reason will do.
Right now Syrian Christians are given the choice: Recant of Christianity and be a Muslim; or die.

You can choose to stay in the safety of your own home. Or you can find a way to take the gospel to those who have never heard it before, and do not have any means of hearing it except someone go and tell them.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Your argument is circular, against yourself, and against the Bible.
1. The Bible commands it. Go into all nations.
2. God's laws trump man's laws.
3. "Against the law to believe" is simply religious persecution. Jesus said "in the world you shall have persecution...."
Paul said: "all who live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution."
And again: "It is given unto you not only to believe on him BUT ALSO to suffer for his sake."
Also: "We are heirs of God and joint heirs of Christ, IF SO BE, that we suffer with him."

Anemic Christians of today are not willing to suffer for Christ. Any reason will do.
Right now Syrian Christians are given the choice: Recant of Christianity and be a Muslim; or die.

You can choose to stay in the safety of your own home. Or you can find a way to take the gospel to those who have never heard it before, and do not have any means of hearing it except someone go and tell them.

Thats right your Canadian.....so you havent been to Jersey City have you? BTW, who attends to them?

 

[preacher4truth]

Nice OP. Short and concise.

When going fishing if I only brought 1 Baptist, my beer would disappear fast. So I learned to bring 2 Baptists and less beer.

 

[preacher4truth]

You are a bitter man, sir.

This post is nothing more than flaming. You have anger issues.

Dr. Obvious has answered correctly.

 

[DHK]

Thats right your Canadian.....so you havent been to Jersey City have you? BTW, who attends to them?

You do not know much about me. As I said, I am a missionary. Before we first got to the mission field, we traveled through America from the Atlantic to the Pacific and by the time we were finished we had been in more than half of the fifty states. How many have you been in?
I won't say if I have been in Jersey City or not. It doesn't matter. I know enough about Americans and their culture to know that there are enough gospel-preaching churches, gospel programs on TV, gospel messages on the Radio, gospel literature freely available, that there is no excuse for anyone in Jersey City not to be saved.
That is not the case in an Islamic nation. There just is no comparison.

 

[preacher4truth]

Drunkenness being a societal evil from time immemorial, why esteem our bellies above our brethren?

How have you gone from consumption of alcohol to 'drunkenness'? The OP doesn't speak of drunkenness, yet you've implied it. Your conclusion is not one in the same.

I've seen worse behavior from Baptist gluttons who gorge amongst others and do so more oft than a person who would drink a glass of wine at dinner, yet such gluttonous behavior is acceptable traditionally.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Like I said to Luke, I'm not going to prolong the argument. In matters of alcohol especially, for reasons not the least of which is expressly and universally identified by the Spirit as a genuine matter of conscience for most of Christ's own, the abuse of which is the source of most societal ills and to which most men are most prone, and from which the abstinence costs absolutely nothing, it is telling that one is unwilling to forego this one little thing for the love of his weaker brethren.

Christ said it well, the love of many shall was cold.

Here frankly you descend into sentimentality & allow them excuses for their selected weakness. And right after you were castigating homosexuals ..... whats the difference between a homosexual & a drunk then & whats the solution to both?

The weaker brother is a weakling because he has chosen to be weak.... to anything (sex, drugs & Rock & Roll )! Then there are those who steadfastly refuse to be enslaved to anything....in their hearts or their minds or their souls.....whichever you wish to call it, and there are those who will use misfortune to educate and elevate themselves. It is still their choice & its a matter of character.

Ive said my piece & I'm done with this topic.

Will let you have the final word.

 

[Luke2427]

I'm not going to prolong the argument. Just cite the verse where Paul said, "I will eat no meat at his house."

Soi help me understand your point here.

Are you saying that anything any Christian says he thinks is a sin that no other Christian on earth should ever participate in?

 

[Aaron]

Here frankly you descend into sentimentality & allow them excuses for their selected weakness.

Is a conscience toward meat offered to idols and wine as an evil thing selected? Paul didn't treat it as such. He said not everyone has certain knowledge.

And right after you were castigating homosexuals ..... whats the difference between a homosexual & a drunk then & whats the solution to both?

Had no idea where this came from or what you meant till I realized you dont understand of which Paul is speaking when he speaks of weak brothers.

He said that if a brother has a conscience toward something as an evil thing, and his knowledge that you take liberties with those things emboldens him to do the same while not having the faith that he may, then he has sinned because his act was not of faith, and you have sinned because you did not act out of love or regard for the weaker brother.

It isn't about a propensity to alcoholism or idolatry, though the majority of those saved out of those vices have a conscience toward wine and the meat as evil things.

The weaker brother is a weakling because he has chosen to be weak....

Besides smelling like an Arminian and being the complete antithesis of Paul's writing on the matter, that statement is simply not true.

Will let you have the final word.

Good.

 

[Aaron]

Are you saying that anything any Christian says he thinks is a sin that no other Christian on earth should ever participate in?

No. Just genuine matters of conscience. It's called love.

 

[Luke2427]

No. Just genuine matters of conscience. It's called love.

So if I love some Christian who believes it is a sin to wear a tie I never put on another tie so long as I live, right?

What if I meet another Christian later on who thinks its a sin NOT to wear a tie?

I guess I'm really in a pickle then, huh?

 

[SolaSaint]

If they were flaunting their basketball skills, would it be evil?

If they are enjoying doing something that is perfectly okay, then there should be no problem.

If they were flaunting drunkenness, then it would be a sin.

Flaunting that they enjoy alcohol just like God intended for man to enjoy it is not at all wrong.

Not sure Basketball skills can cause a man to stumble, but I could be wrong.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

So if I love some Christian who believes it is a sin to wear a tie I never put on another tie so long as I live, right?

What if I meet another Christian later on who thinks its a sin NOT to wear a tie?

I guess I'm really in a pickle then, huh?

Sure...a drunk is going to stop drinking simply because I stop drinking & then suddenly the world will become clean and sober. What a freaking joke.:laugh:

 

[Luke2427]

Not sure Basketball skills can cause a man to stumble, but I could be wrong.

Alcohol is as morally neutral as basketball.

A man who overindulges in either or the two- or in anything else for that matter- sins.

A man who does either in moderation responsibly does not sin.