re: 3x church thread

[corndogggy]

I don't know how large Corndoggy's church is

Realistically, probably 150 people or so, possibly sometimes swelling close to 200, and I know about 15 of them, not counting immediate family. That's just knowing halfway who they are and remembering most of their first names only, with some being staff or parents of my daughter's friends and therefore being nearly impossible to not know who they are, so it's not like I'm big buddies with that many by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

Below are some scriptures that a pastor might use for imploring people to meet more than an hour a week.

"And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart," - Acts 2:46

"And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ." - Acts 5:42

"Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching." - Hebrews 10:25​

I agree that scripture does not mandate meeting frequencies, dates and times and I agree that the local body should agree upon such things. However, the leader of the local body has the authority to establish such things. He has the authority to determine what days and times to meet and he has the authority to rebuke those who do not submit to these meeting days. If that leader feels that the people's response to those meeting times is neither cold nor hot, then he is obligated to rebuke, reprove and exhort them in whatever manner he feels led by God to do so. The people that have placed themselves under his authority can choose to accept that rebuke and adjust, rebel against the rebuke and murmur about it or rebel against the rebuke and take themselves out from under the authority of that preacher.

"Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you." - Hebrews 13:17​

Amen, and Amen!

 

[Rufus_1611]

Bull.

What do you mean by "Bull" exactly?

Christ comes back for His Bride.

For those that are counted worthy.

"But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:" - Luke 20:35​

"Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man." - Luke 21:36​

The Lukewarm church (which is still a church), get's spewed out.

"So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth." - Revelation 3:16​

Actually, I skip church to buy crack on the street corner. :saint:

Crack is whack.

Since we're on the topic of "ignoring scripture," feel free to ignore what Jesus said about the measure you use to judge will be used against you.

That's Matthew 7, in case you've never read it.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

This is why you are teaching a false doctrine of Legalism...
And why you like to boast about how great you are...

You have fallen from Grace..
Galatians 5:4
(4) Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Ephesians 2:8-9
(8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
(9) Not of works, lest any man should boast.

You are preaching another doctrine than Paul... and IF you are relying on your works to get to Heaven, you won't make it....

Do you really believe you have to do something to get to Heaven? If so, that would explain why you are so determined to be in church all the time... You don't trust Christ to take you, you are trusting in your righteousness... And self-righteousness won't cut it...

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

1 John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

The assembling together is commanded. Submitting to the authority is commanded. If the pastor holds services 7 days a week, as was done in early Christianity according to the book of Acts, the congregants should be extactic when encouraged to be in the Sanctuary.

 

[tinytim]

And you attend where? Westboro?
Waco... what you describe is a cult.
Where every whim of the pastor is obeyed...

Do you require your members to turn over their paychecks, and you give them allowances? If a pastor proposed that, should the members obey?

A Pastor is not a dictator. A Pastor is not God.

Keeping people in legalism is sending them to Hell.

 

[corndogggy]

If the pastor holds services 7 days a week, as was done in early Christianity according to the book of Acts, the congregants should be extactic when encouraged to be in the Sanctuary.

Then why wait until you have to be "encouraged"? Why don't you go to your pastor and tell him that you and some others want to meet every night, regardless of whether he can be there, and ask if you can have a key to the church?

 

[rbell]

What do you mean by "Bull" exactly?

I issued a papal decree on the matter.

Crack is whack.

So is sarcasm. :laugh:

 

[JDale]

Below are some scriptures that a pastor might use for imploring people to meet more than an hour a week.

"And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart," - Acts 2:46

"And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ." - Acts 5:42

"Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching." - Hebrews 10:25
​

I agree that scripture does not mandate meeting frequencies, dates and times and I agree that the local body should agree upon such things. However, the leader of the local body has the authority to establish such things. He has the authority to determine what days and times to meet and he has the authority to rebuke those who do not submit to these meeting days. If that leader feels that the people's response to those meeting times is neither cold nor hot, then he is obligated to rebuke, reprove and exhort them in whatever manner he feels led by God to do so. The people that have placed themselves under his authority can choose to accept that rebuke and adjust, rebel against the rebuke and murmur about it or rebel against the rebuke and take themselves out from under the authority of that preacher.

"Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you." - Hebrews 13:17
​

While I might agree with your theory that the "Pastor" has the "authority" to set meeting times, etc., in practice, I'd just like to see him try it.

Been there, done that, got the scars -- NOT gonna happen in most "churches."

JDale

 

[JDale]

What do you mean by "Bull" exactly?


For those that are counted worthy.

"But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:" - Luke 20:35​

"Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man." - Luke 21:36​

The Lukewarm church (which is still a church), get's spewed out.

"So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth." - Revelation 3:16
​

Crack is whack.

If one is truly saved, one IS worthy. to teach that a believer must maintain some kind of standard above their salvation in Christ Jesus as Lord and Savior is problematic at best, false doctrine at worst!

JDale

 

[Rufus_1611]

If one is truly saved, one IS worthy. to teach that a believer must maintain some kind of standard above their salvation in Christ Jesus as Lord and Savior is problematic at best, false doctrine at worst!

JDale

Eternal salvation is by grace through faith alone because of the blood of a pure spotless lamb. However, once we are off of milk, there's a prize we should be striving for.

Surely, Paul is not describing eternal salvation in the following verse (unless Paul was an Arminian, which I would expect we'd agree he was not).

"Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain." - 1 Corinthians 9:24​

Thus, if it is not eternal salvation that we are running for, what is the prize that we are to obtain?

 

[tinytim]

Our crowns and rewards...
And Rufus you are right, but what HBSMN is saying is different...

We work because we are saved...
not to keep saved...

Read my other posts where I quoted HBSMN. I show where he is teaching legalism...
Legalism is putting a requirement on salvation to get to Heaven. And he has done this in this thread....

 

[Amy.G]

Corndoggy, do you attend Sunday School? This is where you'll get to really know the members of your church on a personal level. IMHO, SS is the heart of the church.
Even if you're an outgoing, never met a stranger kind of person, it's impossible to get to know people if you only attend the worship service.

Our church is about the same size as yours, and if I only attended the worship services, I wouldn't know a soul. Even if I went 7 times a week.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

Our crowns and rewards...
And Rufus you are right, but what HBSMN is saying is different...

We work because we are saved...
not to keep saved...

Read my other posts where I quoted HBSMN. I show where he is teaching legalism...
Legalism is putting a requirement on salvation to get to Heaven. And he has done this in this thread....

Again, I have not posted anything legalistic. It is funny, tim, you agree with Rufus when he has said the same thing as me. Here is what he said:

However, the leader of the local body has the authority to establish such things. He has the authority to determine what days and times to meet and he has the authority to rebuke those who do not submit to these meeting days. If that leader feels that the people's response to those meeting times is neither cold nor hot, then he is obligated to rebuke, reprove and exhort them in whatever manner he feels led by God to do so. The people that have placed themselves under his authority can choose to accept that rebuke and adjust, rebel against the rebuke and murmur about it or rebel against the rebuke and take themselves out from under the authority of that preacher.

I have said the same thing and you call me legalistic while agreeing with Rufus. Isn't that being doubleminded?

 

[dan e.]

again.....

HBSMN, you have yet to prove anything that you are saying. Nobody is denying the fact that believers should not forsake meeting together. What you are arguing for is an allotted time that should be met, and if someone does not meet that requirement then they have spiritual issues.

You are quoting Scripture that nobody is disagreeing with, yet you are still failing to prove that the Scripture means a specific number of times required to meet. Nobody is denying we should meet. That is what the Bible says...which is what you are quoting, but are making it mean something that it doesn't. The burden of proof is on you...you still haven't proven your point. I'm not asking you to, because you can't. Just understand that your rambling on and on about this hasn't helped...but has only made you appear to be legalistic. I'd call it quits if I were you.

so is there any reason to continue?

 

[tinytim]

I applaud a pastor who warns his congregation that they are treading dangerous waters when they choose to miss a Church service for a ball game or a birthday party.

Christ is not coming back for a Church that would rather be assembled with the lost at a party or a ball game. He is coming back for a Church who is attentive to the things of God.[/quote]

I bolded your legalistic statement....

 

[tinytim]

Christ is coming back for those who not only have accepted Him as Savior, but as Lord and Master as well.

Problem is, too many preachers are standing behind the sacred pulpit and preaching a feel good message. 'Accept Christ as your Savior and you will spend eternity in Heaven. It does not matter what you do after your profession, you are saved.'

And because of this watered-down preaching, people make excuses not to be in the House of God.

Yet, God's Holy Word says 'Ye cannot serve God and mammon.'

The people are not required to do anything? That is contrary to God's Holy Word. We are commanded to do much in the Word of God.

Again, the main point of this, your post, is salvation... and you say that to not require someone to do anything for salvation is contrary to the Bible.

Rufus on the other hand says that works has nothing to do with salvation...

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

Blessed is that servant whom when the Lord comes is found so doing the will of the Lord.

The Lord does require of His children certain things, tim... whether you accept that or not. His Word gives the commandment to assemble often, and to exhort that assemblage.

 

[tinytim]

Eternal salvation is by grace through faith alone because of the blood of a pure spotless lamb. However, once we are off of milk, there's a prize we should be striving for.

Surely, Paul is not describing eternal salvation in the following verse (unless Paul was an Arminian, which I would expect we'd agree he was not).

"Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain." - 1 Corinthians 9:24​

Thus, if it is not eternal salvation that we are running for, what is the prize that we are to obtain?

See, he makes it clear that church attendance and running the race is not tied into salvation....

Do you see the differences in your posts....

His is works after salvation...
your is works for salvation...

 

[tinytim]

I do not disagree that we should work.. .but not out of fear of not making it to Heaven, but out of love for what Christ has already done...

Works are great... but not tied to salvation...
Otherwise, Christ's death was in vain.

 

[Linda64]

EARLY BAPTISTS REQUIRED FAITHFUL CHURCH ATTENDANCE

Church members today often display an amazingly cavalier attitude toward church attendance. It is not uncommon for churches that run 200 in attendance on Sunday mornings to have only half of that number back on Sunday night and even fewer for the mid-week service. Church membership was treated much more seriously in Baptist churches four hundred years ago.

The following is from Adam Taylor's The History of the English General Baptists [London: 1818], Volume I:

The general Baptists of the 16th and 17th centuries so respected the nature and importance of assemblies for public worship that the wilful neglect of them was considered as disorderly conduct, which called for the censure of the church. A constant inspection was exercised over the attendance of the members: persons were appointed to take down the names of the absentees, and report them to the elders; and nothing but reasons of obvious importance were admitted as a sufficient apology for their non-attendance. When the societies grew numerous, the members were ranged into districts, according, to the proximity of their habitations: and proper persons appointed to superintend each district. If any member did not appear in his place, on the Lord's-day, he was certain of a visit, in the course of the week, from one of the inspectors of the district, to call him to account for his absence. These regulations were rendered effectual, by being acted upon with steadiness, impartiality, and decision; and, for nearly a century, contributed much to the order and prosperity of the general baptist churches.

In 1655, an "Order" was made, by the general consent of the congregation at Fenstanton, that "if any member of this congregation shall absent himself from the assembly of the same congregation, upon the first day of the week, without manifesting a sufficient cause, he shall be looked upon as an offender, and proceeded with accordingly. At the same meeting, it was devised, that, if any member should, at any time, have any extraordinary occasion to hinder him from the assembly, he would certify the congregation of the same before hand, for the prevention of jealousy." And, in 1658, the same society, after considering the case of a wife who had been kept back, by the threatenings of her husband, concluded "that, unless a person was restrained by force, it was no excuse for absenting himself from the assemblies of the congregation." Resolutions of a similar purport are frequent in the records of these churches: and numbers of cases prove that they were constantly enforced.

http://www.wayoflife.org/fbns/earlybaptists-faithful.html

Good thing you folks weren't living back then!