Featured Read a Creed in Church?

If they're biased in their approach to interpreting scripture according to manmade doctrines like the church below is:

Hope Reformed Baptist Church, Medford, N.Y.

I would not only not oppose them reading their creed in church but for purposes of full discloser and transparency I would strongly suggest they should post their doctrinal guide on the wall, on a large sign, just as highlighted, above the their pastor's head for a warning to all that attend their church as a clue as to what they are dealing with. - (Maybe between a plaque of the 5 Commandments of TULIP and a picture of John Calvin burning heretics at the stake.)​

Because most rational intelligent people can recognize a, “preemptive clause to give plausible deniability when the issue is brought up” ~ Dr. JamesAch, when they see it. ​

:smilewinkgrin:​

 

Translation- The scriptures are not our authority, our creed is our authority, we interpret the scriptures to agree with our creed.

 

Calvinist Objectioner ("CO"): "They are merely a guide, the Bible is the final authority"
Non Calvinist ("NC"): "Is Calvinism the Gospel?

CO: "Yes, it is, and it is based on the Bible".

NC: "Can I truly understand the gospel by just the Bible alone?"

CO: "Yes, but if you are truly led of God, you will come to the Calvinist conclusion"

NC: "But don't Calvinists believe that God predetermines people to hell?"

CO: "You don't understand Calvinism"

NC: "How then can I truly understand Calvinism then"

CO: "Well, you should study the Creeds and Confessions"

NC: "But you just said that I could understand the gospel through the Bible alone. The only way to truly understand the Bible is if I'm truly saved (1 Cor 2:14), and yet to be truly saved means understanding the gospel, and if the gospel is Calvinism, and the only way to truly understand Calvinism is by learning it from the Confessions, then ultimately, the Confessions must come first before I can properly understand the gospel?"

CO: " Well...uhh....um..ohh...uhhh [scratches head:BangHead:]..you're an idiot, you clearly have no understanding of anything let alone Calvinism. You are misrepresenting my words. Calvinism is based on the Bible"

NC: "So I guess we're back at square one!"

 

What Icon actually said is that creeds are a tool that can be used to better understand the Word of God.

He's saying you need the creeds to properly understand the Word of God, therefore the creeds are his authority.

Same thing the Catholics have been saying for centuries.

Right from the horse's mouth.

 

Our church reads our creed every service, it starts at the beginning of Genesis and stops at the end of Revelation.

 

:thumbsup::thumbsup:
AMEN!

 

Oh I get what he's saying alright. But as in my little anecdotal there, what they MEAN is that you can't ever properly understand Calvinism unless you understand the Creeds, and since Calvinism IS the gospel, in order to understand the gospel you have to understand the creeds first, because the creeds explain the gospel, yet you can't understand the gospel in your sinful state because of your inability which means if Calvinism IS the gospel, and Calvinism can only be properly understood through the confessions, a sinner can not get saved through the Bible alone which ultimately makes the Confessions the beginning authority, when the Scriptures should be the beginning and final authority.

 

I never said such a thing Winman.I understand the difference between a creed,a confession, and a catechism.....you do not some to know the difference.

Ach evidently does not get it either.If you want to remain ignorant of the truth contained in these tools you can continue to do so. We can see it by what you post.:wavey:

 

Ach

Surely you do not..

We will say what we mean....you can say what you mean.What you claim we say....is said by no one at all.....so it is a product of your own mind. A falsehood at that.

 

This makes your point evident, just simple definitions.


Catechisms

A Catechism is a manual of Christian doctrine drawn up in the form of questions and answers, especially one for religious instruction. The first such manual was compiled by the English scholar Alcuin in the 8th century. Emphasis on the use of a catechism, particularly its memorization by rote, has diminished in recent years.


Confessions

A confession is a manual of Christian doctrine drawn up in the form of essays. Confessions are typically written in a chapter format and grouped according to a particular subject. there are a great number of proof texts which provide the Scriptural basis for each subject.


Creeds

Creeds are authoritative summaries of the principal articles of faith of various churches or bodies of believers. Since doctrines are subject to elaboration and interpretation that cause differences of opinion detailed creeds become necessary to emphasize the differences between the tenets of schismatic branches. They also serve as formulations of belief when liturgical usage, as in the administration of baptism, requires a profession of faith.


It is obvious that certain posters are here not to inform, clarify, or edify, but to demean and cause division. Of all people Icon uses and studies the Bible incessantly as his final Authority. Both Presbyterians and Baptists use the Bible as their final Authority. In the Presbyterian Church, we used the Apostle's Creed from time to time. It was not a replacement for the Bible, but a summary of beliefs. Creeds are not so apparent in the Baptist faith, so really, I this thread is not needed. If Baptist churches repeat a creed, it was usually formed by the local church.

The very fact that Icon was ridiculed for his statement on creeds is clear and convincing evidence that some are obsessed with only one doctrine and a small collections of people.

 

Thank you for this helpful post brother! While any tool can be handled incorrectly...they should not be despised. if you notice that those who speak against the catechisms,etc...cannot explain their point in a coherent fashion 9 times out of 10.....

I have challenged any of them to rewrite any of the confessions and improve on them...but there has been no takers:thumbs::thumbsup:

 

There is no doubt in my mind if you found a gap between any creed or confession and Scripture, you would be shouting it from the roof tops. The Dr follows you like a puppy.

 

Saying so doesn't make it true. There is plenty of "reason" to believe otherwise... it is very evident from his own words. You haven't addressed the arguments that point at these words to show the contrary. You've apparently missed the argument about the obvious preemptive statements for plausible deniability. I'll bet such can be demonstrated back to the base of his learning, such as from his church doctrine. You have simply repeated his false claim and are playing the martyr for him.

 

I can speak for my experience with creeds, and those who have read creeds before have the Bible as their final Authority as much as those who do not. Why are you harping on me, I have not been a Presbyterian for 35 years, and my church does not read creeds.

 

Iconoclast

Actually, yes I do get what you are saying, I just posted it! I even posted your response which I could easily just replace "CO" with "Iconoclast"

 

Pfftt. are you serious?? I can't count how many times I've laid out all the contradictions in the Confessions, and had a few threads dedicated to JUST THAT SUBJECT, which of course, never gets to stay for very long because certain people with a vendetta against me personally make sure they always cause the thread to get shut down.

And why on earth would anyone of us Non Calvinist want to rewrite a Calvinist Creed? Of course nobody would take you up on that it's absurd. If the Creed is that important to you, YOU rewrite it, and get rid of all the contradictions!

 

I do not know what the above post says, but if everyone would put something on ignore, it would go away. It is like the solution to the Rush Limbaugh problem, the off switch.

 

!

Next time i stop in glendale at the truckstop....you can come and examine me my friend.....bring your bible and we will see what is what:thumbsup::thumbsup: you pick the topic, we will take a look together.

 

If you ever come through West KY on a stop and you, I and Tom meet for coffee, I think I will skip that one. LOL