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Real Angels

Cathode

Well-Known Member
I suppose I take a mediating position on this, similar to what the Anglican Communion does. I believe in the Communion of Saints, and angels, and I don't see a problem asking them to intervene on our behalf. But I don't go so far as to veer off into superstition and or even paganism.

It is perfectly reasonable to be neutral on something if you are not completely sure. I respect that, in fact it shows some wisdom to take the time to prayerfully meditate and ruminate on a subject.

It is better than taking a reactive hardline in obstinacy, without stopping to give proper thought to a subject.

Remember that the surer way in spirituality is not by experiences so much but by Faith.

It doesn’t matter if you don’t have these powerful spiritual experiences.

Blessed is he who has not seen, yet still believes.

This is a superior faith.
 

Ascetic X

Well-Known Member
Using and commanding angels is basically praying to them and can lead to worshiping them.

I will just keep going directly to God Almighty who created all the angels and let Him command them to serve me as He sees fit.
 

Ben1445

Well-Known Member
You have got to get out of this stunted zero sum mindset.
What?

That friendship and use of the Angels somehow detracts from God, it doesn’t. That Angels win acknowledgement, God has to lose.

It’s not God that is losing, it is you.
Does your love of wife, family or friends detract from God? No, that’s a dumb idea.

I don’t ask my wife family and friends to do for me what I am told to ask from God.
It is a terrible comparison.
Zero sum pathology doesn’t fit or work in the spiritual ecosystem.

This is all your idea and I don’t know what you’re talking about.
The Angels are sent to serve those who will inherit salvation.
Sent. Not called.

In fact by not using them, you are demonstrating huge ingratitude to God. The Angels go back to God and say ‘ They refused your generous offer and they refused us as servants and did not even acknowledge us’.
Scripture for that one please.
Also, I am not refusing any help. I am refusing the idea that I am supposed to ask angels instead of God.
I can tell you my response if my gardeners came back like that.
But you didn’t.

The Angels are ministering spirits, minister = to serve.

That’s what they do.

They are sent to serve those who will inherit salvation.
This is correct.

What are you demonstrating by refusing these Angels as your servants?
I have refused that they are my servants under my authority.

If you read the Scripture I provided, you can see that being above angels is a future position.
 

Cathode

Well-Known Member
Using and commanding angels is basically praying to them and can lead to worshiping them.

No, it won’t. To my mind this an incredibly ignorant statement, not founded in reality.

No Catholic worships Angels, we use them as God sent servants.

Not only is it scriptural it is evidential and experiential, long before baptists or Protestants walked the earth.
 
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Cathode

Well-Known Member
What?



It’s not God that is losing, it is you.


I don’t ask my wife family and friends to do for me what I am told to ask from God.
It is a terrible comparison.


This is all your idea and I don’t know what you’re talking about.

Sent. Not called.


Scripture for that one please.
Also, I am not refusing any help. I am refusing the idea that I am supposed to ask angels instead of God.

But you didn’t.


This is correct.


I have refused that they are my servants under my authority.

If you read the Scripture I provided, you can see that being above angels is a future position.

What I’m realising is you are just lawyering text in ignorance and have no actual experience of the spiritual realities here.

You have a subordinate authority over the Angels. God sent the Angels to serve those who will inherit salvation.

So use them.
 

Ben1445

Well-Known Member
What I’m realising is you are just lawyering text in ignorance and have no actual experience of the spiritual realities here.
You don’t appear to apply the quoted Scripture that I have provided. I should not be surprised since I am fully aware of your reliance upon the authority of the pope’s verbal tradition and other things that amount to hearsay instead of truth.
Explain why the Texts quoted are not accurate as presented and we can continue with discussion. Otherwise, it appears to me that you are the person lawyering and adding into things.
I can say that any time I see green grass or blue in the sky it is because there are angels around. It doesn’t necessarily follow.
God made those things. They are not evidence of angels.
I’m also not denying the existence or activity of angels. I somehow can’t convey this to you either.
The main point that I disagree with you about is your personal authority. I think you would be better off going directly to the Father instead of talking to the gatekeeper or the gardener or the kitchen help.

But content yourself with what little you will.

You have a subordinate authority over the Angels. God sent the Angels to serve those who will inherit salvation.

So use them.
I will allow God to use them and not usurp the authority that is not yet given to me.
 

easternstar

Active Member
There are many things that I don't know, and many things I have doubts about. But there are also a good many things I am absolutely certain about -- 200% certain, if you will. A couple: That PSA is false, abominable doctrine. That the RCC is not the 'one true apostolic church'. In fact, no church is that. But of all churches/denominations that consider themselves 'apostolic', those coming from the Magisterial Protestant Reformation, and the RCC, have the least factual claim to being apostolic. I don't even speak to liberal Christianity because they don't even claim apostolicity -- heck, many don't even claim Christ!
 

Cathode

Well-Known Member
You don’t appear to apply the quoted Scripture that I have provided. I should not be surprised since I am fully aware of your reliance upon the authority of the pope’s verbal tradition and other things that amount to hearsay instead of truth.
Explain why the Texts quoted are not accurate as presented and we can continue with discussion. Otherwise, it appears to me that you are the person lawyering and adding into things.
I can say that any time I see green grass or blue in the sky it is because there are angels around. It doesn’t necessarily follow.
God made those things. They are not evidence of angels.
I’m also not denying the existence or activity of angels. I somehow can’t convey this to you either.
The main point that I disagree with you about is your personal authority. I think you would be better off going directly to the Father instead of talking to the gatekeeper or the gardener or the kitchen help.

But content yourself with what little you will.


I will allow God to use them and not usurp the authority that is not yet given to me.

I don’t expect you will understand what I am saying, you are bound up by total prescription.
Almost impossible for someone in this mindset to understand.

You are so concerned about what you should not be doing, ( legalism ) that you are oblivious to what should be doing.

Yes you should not be worshipping angels, no one is telling you to do that.
But this does not mean that you should refuse to use angels as your ministering servants.

Jesus encountered these kinds trapped in legalism when the disciples were picking corn.
They knew the law, but not the spirit of the law.

Legalism prevents higher order understanding, and not having the spirit of the law they don’t get the benefit and freedom of the spirit of the law.

Whilst you and others are trapped in prescriptive legalism and fearful of worshipping angels, Catholics are happily free using them as God sent servants and we live the reality.
Whilst you are lawyering the word, we are living the word. Angels are serving us as lived reality, I have seen angels and been greatly aided by them.

Whilst lawyers read scripture and it is still dry text for them, disciples have scripture on their hearts and live the reality of the word.

I don’t want to win an argument here mate, I want you to experience the incredible reality of Angels and their amazing ministry personally, it changes everything from dry text to true wet experience.

I’m not trying to take something away from you but show you something far higher. You are Heirs, joint Heirs with Christ with real Authority in the Kingdom.
Angels are your servants even though they are a higher order of intelligence and ability, God sent to them to serve those who will inherit salvation.

I’m not a learned man, I’m a garden contractor but I am an experienced man, I know by experience more than anything else.
I have lived like a savage, I was a savage. By experience I understood until vocabulary caught up somewhat.

Angels are created to serve, they are ministering spirits, and they are sent by God to serve those who will inherit salvation.

This is a beautiful reality, don’t let legalism deny you this reality.

Use them.
 

Walter

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I have been a Catholic member of the BB for over 15 years. I have learned much and it's been a privilege to be allowed to participate after originally as a Baptist member of the board.

My wife's health has sharply declined and I have decided to give her my undivided attention and lean heavily on Jesus and and our local Church. Thank you for the kindness and I welcome your prayers.

God bless you all on this earthly pilgrimage
 

Cathode

Well-Known Member
I have been a Catholic member of the BB for over 15 years. I have learned much and it's been a privilege to be allowed to participate after originally as a Baptist member of the board.

My wife's health has sharply declined and I have decided to give her my undivided attention and lean heavily on Jesus and and our local Church. Thank you for the kindness and I welcome your prayers.

God bless you all on this earthly pilgrimage

Love you mate, and praying for you both.

There is a fatigue we face, and grief is the exposed core of our love.

I hope you are’nt signing off completely mate.
 
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Ben1445

Well-Known Member
I don’t expect you will understand what I am saying, you are bound up by total prescription.
Almost impossible for someone in this mindset to understand.

You are so concerned about what you should not be doing, ( legalism ) that you are oblivious to what should be doing.

Yes you should not be worshipping angels, no one is telling you to do that.
But this does not mean that you should refuse to use angels as your ministering servants.

Jesus encountered these kinds trapped in legalism when the disciples were picking corn.
They knew the law, but not the spirit of the law.

Legalism prevents higher order understanding, and not having the spirit of the law they don’t get the benefit and freedom of the spirit of the law.

Whilst you and others are trapped in prescriptive legalism and fearful of worshipping angels, Catholics are happily free using them as God sent servants and we live the reality.
Whilst you are lawyering the word, we are living the word. Angels are serving us as lived reality, I have seen angels and been greatly aided by them.

Whilst lawyers read scripture and it is still dry text for them, disciples have scripture on their hearts and live the reality of the word.

I don’t want to win an argument here mate, I want you to experience the incredible reality of Angels and their amazing ministry personally, it changes everything from dry text to true wet experience.

I’m not trying to take something away from you but show you something far higher. You are Heirs, joint Heirs with Christ with real Authority in the Kingdom.
Angels are your servants even though they are a higher order of intelligence and ability, God sent to them to serve those who will inherit salvation.

I’m not a learned man, I’m a garden contractor but I am an experienced man, I know by experience more than anything else.
I have lived like a savage, I was a savage. By experience I understood until vocabulary caught up somewhat.

Angels are created to serve, they are ministering spirits, and they are sent by God to serve those who will inherit salvation.

This is a beautiful reality, don’t let legalism deny you this reality.

Use them.
I can experience the far higher in my relationship with the King of kings. I have no reason to ask anyone else for anything else.
You are having such a marvelous time with the gatekeeper that you have forgotten that the King would like to speak to you.
 

Cathode

Well-Known Member
I can experience the far higher in my relationship with the King of kings. I have no reason to ask anyone else for anything else.
You are having such a marvelous time with the gatekeeper that you have forgotten that the King would like to speak to you.

You think it’s one or the other but it’s both and.
 

Walter

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Love you mate, and praying for you both.

There is a fatigue we face, and grief is the exposed core of our love.

I hope you are’nt signing off completely mate.

I expect to be away from the board for a while. This is the most difficult trial of my life

Your prayers are greatly appreciated
 
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Cathode

Well-Known Member
Take what time you need mate.

What got me through was the seven sorrows, it was like the impact was mitigated but a very powerful consolation given as well, Jesus is in charge.

Our loved ones are in Jesus hands, better hands than ours, Jesus is Goodness and He is with you both.
 

Ascetic X

Well-Known Member
I expect to be away from the board for a while. This is the most difficult trial of my life

Your prayers are greatly appreciated
I pray for God to comfort and strengthen you as you lovingly and patiently serve your beloved wife. This is a trial I have gone through, and it is a total nightmare. We need to remain close to the Lord and keep trusting him no matter what.

Some men never have a godly virtuous woman and never experience living with a sweet spiritual wife. A Christian wife is such a wonderful and precious gift from God. Stay optimistic. Let her know all the little things about her that you’ve noticed, appreciated, and enjoyed.

May God help you both during this sad time.
 

Cathode

Well-Known Member
I pray for God to comfort and strengthen you as you lovingly and patiently serve your beloved wife. This is a trial I have gone through, and it is a total nightmare. We need to remain close to the Lord and keep trusting him no matter what.

Some men never have a godly virtuous woman and never experience living with a sweet spiritual wife. A Christian wife is such a wonderful and precious gift from God. Stay optimistic. Let her know all the little things about her that you’ve noticed, appreciated, and enjoyed.

May God help you both during this sad time.

Love is Eternal, there is no real separation. These moments are a Holy and Sacred time of Faith and Trust as painful as they are.

The carerer sweats blood and is crucified and tortured at every angle, but Jesus shows us victory, because Love is Eternal.

Love truly is Eternal. One moment in Love is Eternity.
The pangs of Love are the gateway to the Eternal, Jesus showed us on the Cross. Raw exposed Love.
 
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