Real debates

[Martin Marprelate]

There's nothing to reconcile there at all.

I think you'll find there is.

One is for unbelievers to hope in Christ,
while the other is for believers to not walk in the flesh.

Trying to reconcile those two has led many to adopt a "compilation" theology that isn't faithful to anything written. Just a hodgepodge of confusion and a whole host of pseudo-Christians trying to work for eternal life

Failure to reconcile the two verses leads either to antinomianism or legalism.

 

[John of Japan]

WOTM is the best but not the only way. What makes it so good is it's approach is aimed at the conscience while other methods the intellect.

This statement is incorrect and, in fact, insulting. I've never one time in my life done evangelism with an appeal to the intellect in two languages and several countries. Nor have I advocated an appeal to the intellect in the two books on soul-winning I have written, nor have I seen such an approach in any book on soul-winning I have read.

 

[evangelist6589]

This statement is incorrect and, in fact, insulting. I've never one time in my life done evangelism with an appeal to the intellect in two languages and several countries. Nor have I advocated an appeal to the intellect in the two books on soul-winning I have written, nor have I seen such an approach in any book on soul-winning I have read.

This is what separates WOTM apart. However in your situation I am not sure about witnessing to people from another culture. WOTM is designed for English speaking people to the best of my knowledge.

 

[John of Japan]

This is what separates WOTM apart. However in your situation I am not sure about witnessing to people from another culture. WOTM is designed for English speaking people to the best of my knowledge.

Why would witnessing to another culture negate the need for the law according to the WOTM position? You have said that it is the best and most Scriptural method. The Gospel is the Gospel, and applies to every culture exactly the same (understanding the need to contextualize the context but not the content of the Gospel).

Besides, my first book on soul-winning was in English to Americans. And I most certainly did not advocate any intellectualism in presenting the Gospel. What is needed for conviction of sin is the power of the Holy Spirit.

"How much is the soul winner like a blind man! Our efforts are worthless without the Holy Spirit to guide our stumbling feet. We would fall time and time again without His power. When we are left powerless because of sin in our lives, soul winning becomes a hopeless cause, doomed to the sad mockery of failure" (The Making of a Soul Winner, by John R. Himes).

 

[Don]

....WOTM is designed for English speaking people to the best of my knowledge.

You need to re-evaluate this statement. If WOTM is the "best" way to witness, then it should be good in ALL languages.

Also, you need to point out to John of Japan: he's mixing two things. You claim WOTM is the "best" way to witness; JoJ is looking at the best way to win souls.

 

[evangelist6589]

You need to re-evaluate this statement. If WOTM is the "best" way to witness, then it should be good in ALL languages.

Also, you need to point out to John of Japan: he's mixing two things. You claim WOTM is the "best" way to witness; JoJ is looking at the best way to win souls.

That's part of the problem. God draws his elect to salvation no matter the method of evangelism. It's not about winning souls it's about obedience and trust.

Comfort is not reformed but in reality this is what's it's all about. Faithfulness and trust.

 

[InTheLight]

God draws his elect to salvation no matter the method of evangelism. It's not about winning souls it's about obedience and trust.

Then I must ask--Does God have a favored method of evangelism?

Alternatively--If "God draws the elect to salvation no matter the method of evangelism", how can you say that WOTM is the 'best way'?

 

[John of Japan]

You need to re-evaluate this statement. If WOTM is the "best" way to witness, then it should be good in ALL languages.

Also, you need to point out to John of Japan: he's mixing two things. You claim WOTM is the "best" way to witness; JoJ is looking at the best way to win souls.

1. This is a valid point, but I'm not sure anyone on this thread are distinguishing between giving the Gospel and giving a personal witness.

2. WOTM is a method of evangelism. There is no such thing as a method of witnessing, really. Giving a witness is telling what you have seen and heard--how you got saved, how God worked in your life.

3. I don't see much point in doing Spirit filled and led evangelism without expecting God to work--in other words, soul winning. If the Holy Spirit is at work, people will get saved. More will get saved in some cultures than others. I worked for 33 years in a Gospel-resistant culture with less than 1% Christian and only 1/2% evangelical. Yet we saw some blessed fruit that remained: Mr. Wakamatsu, Miss Nakajima who went to another church later but taught SS and sang for them, Mr. Togo the drug addict, Mr. Habazaki the mentally slow man who became my partner in evangelism and in going to baseball games, Mr. Usuki the yakuza gangster, Mr. Ushiro the drug addict and many others.

 

[John of Japan]

That's part of the problem. God draws his elect to salvation no matter the method of evangelism. It's not about winning souls it's about obedience and trust.

Comfort is not reformed but in reality this is what's it's all about. Faithfulness and trust.

Funny how God only elects people when believers do evangelism. No one gets saved unless the Gospel is proclaimed.

"How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?" (Rom. 10:14).

 

[Don]

1. This is a valid point, but I'm not sure anyone on this thread are distinguishing between giving the Gospel and giving a personal witness.

2. WOTM is a method of evangelism. There is no such thing as a method of witnessing, really. Giving a witness is telling what you have seen and heard--how you got saved, how God worked in your life.

3. I don't see much point in doing Spirit filled and led evangelism without expecting God to work--in other words, soul winning. If the Holy Spirit is at work, people will get saved. More will get saved in some cultures than others. I worked for 33 years in a Gospel-resistant culture with less than 1% Christian and only 1/2% evangelical. Yet we saw some blessed fruit that remained: Mr. Wakamatsu, Miss Nakajima who went to another church later but taught SS and sang for them, Mr. Togo the drug addict, Mr. Habazaki the mentally slow man who became my partner in evangelism and in going to baseball games, Mr. Usuki the yakuza gangster, Mr. Ushiro the drug addict and many others.

Got me on the detail. Yes, evangelizing is what I should have used instead of witnessing.

 

[Don]

That's part of the problem. God draws his elect to salvation no matter the method of evangelism. It's not about winning souls it's about obedience and trust.

It's not about counting how many souls are won; it IS about winning souls (see Proverbs 11:30), and following the commandment to make disciples. But that's a topic for a different thread. I'll step back and let you continue with JoJ and Baptist Believer now.

 

[evangelist6589]

Funny how God only elects people when believers do evangelism. No one gets saved unless the Gospel is proclaimed.

"How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?" (Rom. 10:14).

Which is what I said. We need to be evangelizing only out of obedience and expect God to draw his elect and grant repentance.

When I open air I realize most do not like the method and either ignore or heckle me but I do it out of obedience for I evangelize to the glory of God. The fact is that God has used open air for centuries and also perhaps he may not be using me to save people but rather to preach judgment.

 

[evangelist6589]

JOJ you are not interested in a discussion and debates are a waste of time. If you wanted a discussion you would buy a sound Comfort book such as The Way of the Master or Hells best kept secret and read his arguments and all the scripture that he uses.

 

[Salty]

JOJ you are not interested in a discussion and debates are a waste of time. If you wanted a discussion you would buy a sound Comfort book such as The Way of the Master or Hells best kept secret and read his arguments and all the scripture that he uses.

My goodness how was it possible that evangelism could even be accomplished before WotM?

 

[Rippon]

Funny how God only elects people when believers do evangelism.

Wrong. His elect were chosen before the foundation of the world. They are saved in their lifetime because of what Christ accomplished in His cross-work. Of course the Lord uses means such as preachers and His Holy Word to lead them to Himself.

 

[Iconoclast]

Wrong. His elect were chosen before the foundation of the world. They are saved in their lifetime because of what Christ accomplished in His cross-work. Of course the Lord uses means such as preachers and His Holy Word to lead them to Himself.

I think he was stressing the means used, unless I misread it....

 

[John of Japan]

JOJ you are not interested in a discussion and debates are a waste of time. If you wanted a discussion you would buy a sound Comfort book such as The Way of the Master or Hells best kept secret and read his arguments and all the scripture that he uses.

So the point I get from this post is that you are not able to defend the WOTM position from Scripture, is that correct? One cannot understand the WOTM method from Scripture, but only from the books, is that correct?

One of these days I will buy The Way of the Master. I can't right now. I have too much going. I have read the sermon of "Hell's Best Kept Secret" online and was not impressed at all. I note that Comfort has no theological education, and it certainly showed in that sermon.

 

[John of Japan]

Which is what I said. We need to be evangelizing only out of obedience and expect God to draw his elect and grant repentance.

When I open air I realize most do not like the method and either ignore or heckle me but I do it out of obedience for I evangelize to the glory of God. The fact is that God has used open air for centuries and also perhaps he may not be using me to save people but rather to preach judgment.

Do you weep when you preach on Hell and judgment?

"They that sow in tears shall reap in joy. He that goeth forth and weepeth, bearing precious seed, shall doubtless come again with rejoicing, bringing his sheaves with him" (Ps. 126:5-6).

 

[evangelist6589]

So the point I get from this post is that you are not able to defend the WOTM position from Scripture, is that correct? One cannot understand the WOTM method from Scripture, but only from the books, is that correct?

One of these days I will buy The Way of the Master. I can't right now. I have too much going. I have read the sermon of "Hell's Best Kept Secret" online and was not impressed at all. I note that Comfort has no theological education, and it certainly showed in that sermon.

I can defend it but do not have time. Oh and buy the book Hells Best Kept Secret instead of reading a sermon.

 

[Salty]

So the point I get from this post is that you are not able to defend the WOTM position from Scripture, is that correct? One cannot understand the WOTM method from Scripture, but only from the books, is that correct?

One of these days I will buy The Way of the Master. I can't right now. I have too much going. I have read the sermon of "Hell's Best Kept Secret" online and was not impressed at all. I note that Comfort has no theological education, and it certainly showed in that sermon.

I can defend it but do not have time. Oh and buy the book Hells Best Kept Secret instead of reading a sermon.

Did you hear the story about the Private who gave a briefing to the General about a tactical infantry attack......