Rebuttal of an Article on Jn. 6:44 by Dr. Flowers

[utilyan]

And so an argument from silence you your justification for denial that all men deserve Hell.

GOD SAYS All men deserve a million dollars. we can use the same stupid logic to defend that statement.

But I can actually back it with that he gave his only son.

You have ZERO scripture to back up that swirly mess you got right there.



Look you are the guys claiming GOD SAYS all mankind deserves hell.

Oh really? where did he say that?

"oh its in there somewheres"

Ok show it to me.

"well you don't have proof its NOT in there"


God is not a idiot.

Show me the verse you claim exists.

 

[Revmitchell]

Not even implicitly. Scripture never says it.

Everyone misbehaves. Bad people go to hell.

Nothing there earns the harsh judgment of GOD saying "you deserve to burn in hell" You are going overboard and putting words into God' mouth.

If he said those things show me the Verse. its that simple.

I on the other hand can point to Jesus as a statement of what you deserve.

The mistake being made here is applying justice from a worldy man's perspective, his currency is suffering.

He says I deserve in neglect of what God deserves.

You have a child who makes a mistake, Well he decides he doesn't deserve to live and suicides. How is that justice for you the father? No you deserve that he makes up for it in behaving the proper way.

Getting what you "deserve" can't be a sin because when it is sin you are neglecting what GOD deserves.

Tell me what GOD deserves first. Lets not start from a SELFISH point of me me me and what I deserve.

If JUSTICE is a focus on YOU rather than GOD's WILL then its not justice at all.


"In fact can you show us the exact opposite is true?"

First having Jesus Christ being associated in anyway with Mankind, THE WORD ITSELF. Is God's living statement.

Acts 10

28And he said to them, “You yourselves know how unlawful it is for a man who is a Jew to associate with a foreigner or to visit him; and yet God has shown me that I should not call any man unholy or unclean.


1 Corinthians 4

1Let a man regard us in this manner, as servants of Christ and stewards of the mysteries of God. 2In this case, moreover, it is required of stewards that one be found trustworthy. 3But to me it is a very small thing that I may be examined by you, or by any human court; in fact, I do not even examine myself. 4For I am conscious of nothing against myself, yet I am not by this acquitted; but the one who examines me is the Lord. 5Therefore do not go on passing judgment before the time, but wait until the Lord comes who will both bring to light the things hidden in the darkness and disclose the motives of men’s hearts; and then each man’s praise will come to him from God.



Show me a verse where GOD DESERVES to be HATED by you. When it comes to justice quit putting the spotlight on yourself.

Probably one of the most incoherent posts I have read on this board.

 

[utilyan]

Probably one of the most incoherent posts I have read on this board.

Hell is sin fully developed.

 

[37818]

"No. You are not making sense."

Its not going to ever make sense to you until you start with what GOD DESERVES instead of selfishly centering the universe on yourself.

If you weren't so focused on the BAD NEWS and sadistic fear you want to put on others. You would have bothered to consider what GOD DESERVES.


"God is holy and omnipresent. Anything anyone does is in the presence of the Holy God. And cannot not be so."

Yes Jesus is Sustainer of all things.


Folks make God out to be the most squeeky, whiney, whimp in the universe. All these laws and rules they are not for God. You break them it doesn't do anything to God.

God is not a angry chimp who throws a fit every time you do something wrong..

Tell me what GOD DESERVES.

Well, it would seem you are incapalble of answering what I had asked. "Now please simply explain to me how you understand God being just sending anyone to Hell?"

 

[Yeshua1]

Hell is sin fully developed.

Hell is where lost sinners go, as God grants to them their desire to not have God be involved with them anymore at all!

 

[37818]

GOD SAYS All men deserve a million dollars. we can use the same stupid logic to defend that statement.

But I can actually back it with that he gave his only son.

You have ZERO scripture to back up that swirly mess you got right there.



Look you are the guys claiming GOD SAYS all mankind deserves hell.

Oh really? where did he say that?

"oh its in there somewheres"

Ok show it to me.

"well you don't have proof its NOT in there"


God is not a idiot.

Show me the verse you claim exists.

". . . Evil men understand not judgment: . . ." -- Proverbs 28:5.

 

[Yeshua1]

GOD SAYS All men deserve a million dollars. we can use the same stupid logic to defend that statement.

But I can actually back it with that he gave his only son.

You have ZERO scripture to back up that swirly mess you got right there.



Look you are the guys claiming GOD SAYS all mankind deserves hell.

Oh really? where did he say that?

"oh its in there somewheres"

Ok show it to me.

"well you don't have proof its NOT in there"


God is not a idiot.

Show me the verse you claim exists.

All have fallen short of the glory of God, and all shall suffer judgment and condemnation for that, unless they receive Jesus thru faith and get saved!

 

[utilyan]

All have fallen short of the glory of God, and all shall suffer judgment and condemnation for that, unless they receive Jesus thru faith and get saved!

That's all true. But it doesn't equate to ALL MANKIND DESERVES HELL.

 

[utilyan]

Hell is where lost sinners go, as God grants to them their desire to not have God be involved with them anymore at all!

I agree.

 

[utilyan]

Well, it would seem you are incapalble of answering what I had asked. "Now please simply explain to me how you understand God being just sending anyone to Hell?"

Just as Yeshua1 said in the post I just replied. Even so we can say God were to send everyone in hell or even "injustly" sent everyone in hell it makes no difference. It simply does not equate to GOD DECLARING ALL MANKIND DESERVE HELL.


That declaration and judgement is unbiblical God has never done it. God sends anyone to hell it is what it is.

He can even send EVERYONE to hell this does not mean in anyway "ALL MANKIND DESERVE HELL".

"ALL MANKIND DESERVE HELL" is an unbiblical philosophy. You guys say God said it.....well show us the verse.


It might be your opinion all mankind deserves a belt whipping. That is your opinion. But to claim that it is GOD's opinion and a biblical opinion, is A SIN. You can't make that judgement call.

 

[37818]

"ALL MANKIND DESERVE HELL" is an unbiblical philosophy. You guys say God said it.....well show us the verse.

So are you saying Christ did not need to die for anyone (Isaiah 53:6)? And are you saying no one has sinned and come short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23)? Explain.

 

[utilyan]

So are you saying Christ did not need to die for anyone (Isaiah 53:6)? And are you saying no one has sinned and come short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23)? Explain.

No I'm not saying that. Strawman.

I'm saying "ALL MANKIND DESERVE HELL" is an unbiblical philosophy. You guys say God said it.....well show us the verse.

If you don't have a verse say that then.

 

[37818]

I'm saying "ALL MANKIND DESERVE HELL" is an unbiblical philosophy. You guys say God said it.....well show us the verse.

Well, by using the same type of argument, it is unbiblical to say "Jesus is God" too. Jesus is the man. And God is not a man. Simple enough. 1 Timothy 2:5.

The arugment is that men deserve hell, not that anywhere in Holy Scripture will you find any such direct statement. Can you provide any Holy Scripture supporting merely the notion that men do not deserve God sending them to Hell?

 

[The Biblicist]

Look you are the guys claiming GOD SAYS all mankind deserves hell.

Oh really? where did he say that?

"oh its in there somewheres"

Ok show it to me.

"well you don't have proof its NOT in there"


God is not a idiot.

Show me the verse you claim exists.

Jesus said that all mankind was "condemned already" and that is just condemnation by God
Paul says the "wages of sin is death" and "wages" refers to what you justly merit.
John the Baptist using the present tense says "the wrath of God is abiding" over unbelievers - Jn. 3:36
Paul tells the Ephesians they were "children OF WRATH even as others" - Eph. 2:3
The Great white judgement seat is where every man is judged "according to their works" thus MERITING the "second death" in Gehenna - Rev. 19:15-17
The very meaning of "grace' carries the idea of being "underserving" of salvation and thus infers just damnation.
The very meaning of "mercy" necessarily infers justly judged or else mercy has no meaning at all.

I could go on and on and on listing scriptures that explicitly and plainly demand just and universal damnation of all mankind (Rom. 5:12, 15-19; etc.).

But you don't care how many scriptures are placed in front of you because it is self-evident your mind is seared against truth.

 

[utilyan]

Jesus said that all mankind was "condemned already" and that is just condemnation by God
Paul says the "wages of sin is death" and "wages" refers to what you justly merit.
John the Baptist using the present tense says "the wrath of God is abiding" over unbelievers - Jn. 3:36
Paul tells the Ephesians they were "children OF WRATH even as others" - Eph. 2:3
The Great white judgement seat is where every man is judged "according to their works" thus MERITING the "second death" in Gehenna - Rev. 19:15-17
The very meaning of "grace' carries the idea of being "underserving" of salvation and thus infers just damnation.
The very meaning of "mercy" necessarily infers justly judged or else mercy has no meaning at all.

I could go on and on and on listing scriptures that explicitly and plainly demand just and universal damnation of all mankind (Rom. 5:12, 15-19; etc.).

But you don't care how many scriptures are placed in front of you because it is self-evident your mind is seared against truth.

"Jesus said that all mankind was "condemned already""

THEN QUOTE THE VERSE!


Jesus Christ is the living word in where God stands on what mankind deserves. Only GOD determines what man deserves.

The problem here is based on taking man's selfish perspective on what they deserve.

What does GOD DESERVE? Its not a person in hell who actively is in sin against God.

Forgiveness actually involves forgiving not making me pay for it thru the suffering of a loved one.

If someone tortures your daughter to let you off the hook, they truly are not letting you off the hook if you ACTUALLY CARED FOR HER. You are still PAYING UP.

So of course a SELFISH person doesn't think this thru when it comes to the absurdity of torturing Jesus, they would throw their own mother under the bus let alone Jesus and call it "forgiveness".

God will always deserve OBEDIENCE. His damages get paid first. Not your silly sense of retribution.

 

[37818]

"Jesus said that all mankind was "condemned already""

THEN QUOTE THE VERSE!

John 3:18, ". . . he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. . . ."

 

[Yeshua1]

"Jesus said that all mankind was "condemned already""

THEN QUOTE THE VERSE!


Jesus Christ is the living word in where God stands on what mankind deserves. Only GOD determines what man deserves.

The problem here is based on taking man's selfish perspective on what they deserve.

What does GOD DESERVE? Its not a person in hell who actively is in sin against God.

Forgiveness actually involves forgiving not making me pay for it thru the suffering of a loved one.

If someone tortures your daughter to let you off the hook, they truly are not letting you off the hook if you ACTUALLY CARED FOR HER. You are still PAYING UP.

So of course a SELFISH person doesn't think this thru when it comes to the absurdity of torturing Jesus, they would throw their own mother under the bus let alone Jesus and call it "forgiveness".

God will always deserve OBEDIENCE. His damages get paid first. Not your silly sense of retribution.

1 Corinthians 15:22

 

[37818]

1 Corinthians 15:22

That refers to physical death and the resurrections, at the very least.

 

[Yeshua1]

That refers to physical death and the resurrections, at the very least.

Paul point is that in Adam, ALL born after Him, save Jesus, died spiritually in Him, and those in Christ, shall be made spiritual alive again!

 

[utilyan]

John 3:18, ". . . he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. . . ."

It literally tells you:

John 3

17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.