Katarina Von Bora
Active Member
Not from where I am sitting. But let's do it your way. How do people get saved?
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Receiving a gift is not also part of the giving
- Thread starter Revmitchell
- Start date
- Status
Not from where I am sitting. But let's do it your way. How do people get saved?
Katarina Von Bora
Active Member
[/QUOTE]
My last post to you was a question "How do people get saved?"
Now I have come across some of your words in another thread:
NOBTS professor detects Calvinistic tilt in study notes of LifeWay’s new Bible (CSB)
"Jesus died for everyone (John 3:16). Everyone has an equal opportunity to respond to the gospel and believe (.2 Peter 3:9; Romans 10:13-17). Everyone has the exact same ability to respond to the gospel (Romans 10:17). We all have the same ability from birth to place our faith in Christ (John 3:1-6) While we are born with Adam's sin nature (Romans 5:12) We bear the guilt of no one but our own sin (Romans 5:12b)"
"It was intended to be applied toward those who believe. We become elect once we believe. Not because we determined to become elect once we believed but because God determined that is how He wanted it."
"Election is corporate not individual. We are elect because we believe, we do not believe because we are elect."
Today you say
"Everyone presented with the gospel hears the gospel and then is free to receive it or reject it. " This seems to indicate that people have to do something, ergo make a decision.
Katarina Von Bora
Active Member
[/QUOTE]
My last post to you was a question "How do people get saved?"
Now I have come across some of your words in another thread:
NOBTS professor detects Calvinistic tilt in study notes of LifeWay’s new Bible (CSB)
"Jesus died for everyone (John 3:16). Everyone has an equal opportunity to respond to the gospel and believe (.2 Peter 3:9; Romans 10:13-17). Everyone has the exact same ability to respond to the gospel (Romans 10:17). We all have the same ability from birth to place our faith in Christ (John 3:1-6) While we are born with Adam's sin nature (Romans 5:12) We bear the guilt of no one but our own sin (Romans 5:12b)"
"It was intended to be applied toward those who believe. We become elect once we believe. Not because we determined to become elect once we believed but because God determined that is how He wanted it."
"Election is corporate not individual. We are elect because we believe, we do not believe because we are elect."
Today you say
"Everyone presented with the gospel hears the gospel and then is free to receive it or reject it. " This seems to indicate that people have to do something, ergo make a decision.
Katarina Von Bora
Active Member
[/QUOTE]
My last post to you was a question "How do people get saved?"
Now I have come across some of your words in another thread:
NOBTS professor detects Calvinistic tilt in study notes of LifeWay’s new Bible (CSB)
"Jesus died for everyone (John 3:16). Everyone has an equal opportunity to respond to the gospel and believe (.2 Peter 3:9; Romans 10:13-17). Everyone has the exact same ability to respond to the gospel (Romans 10:17). We all have the same ability from birth to place our faith in Christ (John 3:1-6) While we are born with Adam's sin nature (Romans 5:12) We bear the guilt of no one but our own sin (Romans 5:12b)"
"It was intended to be applied toward those who believe. We become elect once we believe. Not because we determined to become elect once we believed but because God determined that is how He wanted it."
"Election is corporate not individual. We are elect because we believe, we do not believe because we are elect."
Today you say
"Everyone presented with the gospel hears the gospel and then is free to receive it or reject it. "
This seems to indicate that people have to do something, ergo make a decision. If people have to "do something" for salvation, then God would need the cooperation of the person.
The Bible is clear in John 6
John 6:37 - All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
John 6:44 - 4 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.
This is an article regarding corporate and individual election. It is written by Dr. Dan Wallace.
Corporate Election
I think you should spend some time with your bible and consider these concepts.
God Bless
Last edited:
This sophomoric characterization is neither true nor necessary . God can create whatever process for salvation He wants. What He did do is to chose to provide for the salvation of man, give a free offer of that provision, and allowed man to make the decision to receive this gift or reject it. Gods choice, mans option given by God.
The real issue between us is not if God needs our cooperation or not but which process did God put into place. See God can give an a choice and still remain sovereign. He is just that powerful.
Have done, your turn.
Katarina Von Bora
Active Member
So you think that name-calling will make you right? It won't. I'm tough as nails. That's how I got through Desert Storm in country.
You have just admitted that your theology requires that man DO SOMETHING for salvation. That's works salvation and I'm sure you know what Ephesians says about grace being a GIFT!
There is not a single verse in the New Testament that says your free will is part of the process. The scriptures clearly and emphatically state that the elect were chosen before the foundations of the world.
My beliefs come straight from the book known as the Holy Bible so to use the word sophomoric is an attack upon the scriptures.
Last edited:
This matter of “free will” is such a fantasy and people buy it thinking it is real.
The freedom of choice to the unredeemed is locked into that which the fallen nature considers good. But ultimately nothing coming from or generated by the fallen nature is other than fallen.
It cannot stand that fallen are in some manner “lifted” into some estate in which a choice for or to turn away from salvation is made.
No where in Scriptures such thinking even hinted.
The deeds of the flesh are manifested as deeds of the flesh for there is none righteous.
The believer is endowed with a total new nature, not some old nature “renewed” or modified. The old nature wars against the new natures will, until the death puts the matter to death.
There is much wrong teaching with the thinking of such as preceding grace, old made alive, freedom of the will, ...
Such comes, IMO, from sloppy lazy scholarship and willingness to embrace the fanciful out of conveniece and peace.
Katarina Von Bora
Active Member
Amen!
I think there is a little bit of pride involved as well. I'm not saved because I made the decision, I'm saved because God chose me.
First there was no name calling. Man responding to God's call is not works. It is a claim with no scriptural justification. Your beliefs come from your hyper calvinistic ideology not scripture and I never used the phrase free will you did. What we are seeing here is a constant drum beat of misrepresentations and false accusation from cals. It appears their doctrine cannot stand on its own feet without them.
Since you folks cannot honestly deal with the issue without making the false accusations I will bow out. Feel free to continue to misrepresent my posts and use words and phrases no one else is using.
"Responding" is a verb. An "action" verb. It is something you do.
Well, except that "responding" is a verb.
I don't blame you. If I were logically wrong, Grammatically wrong, And biblically wrong, I would turn tail and run too.
"Responding" is a verb. An "action" verb. It is something you do.
Well, except that "responding" is a verb.
That is irrelevant. When you receive a gift by reaching out and taking it are you also part of the giving?
I don't blame you. If I were logically wrong, Grammatically wrong, And biblically wrong, I would turn tail and run too.
I am sure you would. However, I stated my reasons. Once again I have been misrepresented and its quite dishonest.
One being shown their own words is a misrepresentation?
Claims that Cals hold to a works salvation is not a false accusation?
If any systematic view comes from Scriptures it is that of the “doctrines of grace.”
There has been circulating, since about 2012, a document among the SBC pastors that even admits that it is “semi-peligian.”
The document endorses a semi-Pelagian view of soteriology — The most serious charge made by critics of the statement is that it is semi-Pelagian, a view that claims human beings retain the ability to desire God, to seek God, and to pursue salvation through an act of the free will without God first operating on the human heart. (From https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/...baptists-calvinism-and-gods-plan-of-salvation)
Read more of the link to get both the criticism and typical responses.
The problem being that there is NO Scripture support for free will, and prevenient / preceding grace.Read more of the link to get both the criticism and typical responses.
So, whose view really comes from ideology rather than Scriptures?
Last edited:
No, you haven't, but it is good cover. Kind of like the Democrats shouting RACIST every time they are proven wrong.
Responding is a verb. Something you do. You can continue to duck, dodge, and throw up a huge cloud of the dust of ignorance, but you can't get away from the FACT that "responding" is a verb, something you DO! And the lost man can do NOTHING of a spiritual nature. The lost man cannot receive spiritual things, he thinks they are foolish, he can't even understand them without the regenerating grace of the Holy Spirit of God.
You can try to dethrone God all you want, and try to put yourself on the throne, but He is still the Captain of our salvation.
No one is misrepresenting you. They are drawing theological conclusions from the things you have written. For instance, you deny that you are a Synergist, partly because you reject labels. Yet, you believe that man plays a part in the salvation process. You believe that man has the free will to accept or reject salvation. That is Synergism. You deny it and call it a mischaracterization. You claim we are telling lies about you by mischaracterizing you. You have set up a theological force field around you that shields you from any criticism. Why? What are you afraid of? There are people in my own camp that I disagree with, yet we don’t try and hide from what we believe. TCassidy and I disagree on our lapsarian position. So? We disagree. It’s OK to disagree. Just be honest about what you believe. No need to obfuscate it behind “no labels” or false accusations of mischaracterizations. There’s no Calvinist cabal that’s out to get you.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Closed at OP's request.
- Status