Recreational drug use

[webdog]

I'm not sure legality has anything to do with it. There are lots of legal things that aren't right.

Drinking to get drunk or to lose control so that you end up drunk is wrong.

There isn't anything as specific in the bible about drugs as have been referenced, because frankly they didn't exist as we know them today. Sure they had herbs that might make you loopy and perhaps more if taken in huge amounts, but nothing of the strength we are capable of making today.

The key seems to me to be "recreational". Whatever you do, do as unto the Lord (1 Cor 10:31; Col 3:17). It would just seem hard to justify being high as something that could glorify the Lord.

That being said I believe cannabis derivatives, should be legal drugs available to patients through their doctors. The synthetics are not as effective and cost a whole lot more. Hemp should also be a crop farmers could grow.

There's nothing to justify. God allows it, encourages it, that settles it.

Sorry...replied to the wrong thread. Meant to reply to Zaac's straw man of needing to justify it.

 

[Ed B]

It's kinda weird that people could look at the world today and the pain and destruction caused by alcohol, marijuana, etc, and truly rationalize that a Christian can partake of these things and bring glory to God.

Christian liberty should not be a stumbling block . But in regards to the things you speak of Judith, it has become just that because we're too busy trying to feed our desire of pleasure with little or no concern for holiness and what God says matter.

I don't agree with your strict prohibitionist stance on even light use of alcohol because it is extra-biblical. But I will give you this, there is wisdom and charity in considering the effect that consumption of alcohol can have on some individuals, families, churches and communities especially for those who are predisposed to addictions. And most of us do not know how to identify those people. We should be mindful of whether it is prudent to use our liberty in this way if it can cause a weaker brother or sister to stumble.


Certainly, Paul's letters have a lot to say about not allowing ourselves to be judged by another's conscience (1 Cor 10:29; Romans 14:1-9), but it also says a fair amount about not using our liberty as a stumbling block for the weaker brethren. (1 Cor 8:9-13; Romans 14:21).

 

[Zaac]

There's nothing to justify. God allows it, encourages it, that settles it.

Sorry...replied to the wrong thread. Meant to reply to Zaac's straw man of needing to justify it.

Boy go on somewhere with all your strawman mess.

Using alcohol as an example:

The Body of Christ is supposed to be the lighthouse on a hill. When the lighthouse on the hill is partaking of something that is as sytematically destructive as this, it's a shame that we can come up with any reason why we partake of it. it's selfish and reason for some folks to get off the hill and down on their knees.



3 million violence victims a year report that their attackers were drunk.
Nearly 35000 deaths from it in a year.

Alcohol related injuries and deaths in the United States is a major problem that has seen little improvement over the last decade. In fact, alcohol related car accidents kill more people between the ages of 17 and 34 than any other cause. Alcohol is also closely associated with homicides, suicides, workplace injuries, domestic violence, assault, and complications and death resulting from alcohol related disease like cirrhosis of the liver. Understanding the potentially injurious or fatal risks that people take when they drink is essential to creating an educated public that is more cognizant of the need for self-control over alcohol.

http://recoveryfirst.org/alcohol-related-injuries-and-deaths-in-the-us.html/

But for some reason,, the lighthouse on the hill wants to be known as people who are okay partaking of this stuff?

It goes right back to 2 Tim 3. People will become lovers of pleasure more than lovers of God. We seek to bring glory to ourselves and our own desires and not to God. And thus will seek out any reason we can why our Christian liberty justifies us partaking of these things.

 

[webdog]

Like I said, your problem is with God.

 

[Zaac]

I don't agree with your strict prohibitionist stance on even light use of alcohol because it is extra-biblical.

I didn't give strict prohibitionist stance. Let the world do what they want. I'm saying the CHURCH should make the choice to not partake of it or anything else like it that brings the type of destruction that it does. You just cannot effectively tell someone not to get high if they've watched you partake of the same thing that they use to get high.

But I will give you this, there is wisdom and charity in considering the effect that consumption of alcohol can have on some individuals, families, churches and communities especially for those who are predisposed to addictions. And most of us do not know how to identify those people. We should be mindful of whether it is prudent to use our liberty in this way if it can cause a weaker brother or sister to stumble.

I agree. But not just with alcohol. From early teens to late in life, the destructive hand of this stuff can be seen.

UF study shows long-term drug abuse starts with alcohol
Published: July 10th, 2012
Category: Education, Family, Health, Research
GAINESVILLE, Fla. — Alcohol — not marijuana — is the gateway drug that leads adolescents down the path toward more serious substances, a new University of Florida study shows.

The findings may not settle a decades-old debate over how drug abuse begins, but it could help educators and policymakers build more effective drug-prevention programs, said Adam Barry, an assistant professor and researcher in the College of Health and Human Performance.

http://news.ufl.edu/2012/07/10/alcohol-gateway/

Yale study: Alcohol’s gateway effect much larger than marijuana’s


A Yale study published Tuesday in the Journal of Adolescent Health found that people who used alcohol or tobacco in their youth are almost twice as likely to abuse prescription opiate drugs than those who only used marijuana.

Researchers were careful to specify that any youth substance abuse, including just marijuana use, makes people more than twice as likely to abuse prescription opiate drugs in young adulthood. However, the study’s authors noted that clinical data from the National Survey on Drug Use and Health revealed that of the 12 percent of young adults who said they’d abused prescription opiates, “prevalence of previous substance use was 57% for alcohol, 56% for cigarettes, and 34% for marijuana.”
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/08/...s-gateway-effect-much-larger-than-marijuanas/

Why do Christians keep looking for reasons to be okay associating with this stuff? Is it BENEFICIAL to the Christian to have such an association?

Certainly, Paul's letters have a lot to say about not allowing ourselves to be judged by another's conscience (1 Cor 10:29; Romans 14:1-9), but it also says a fair amount about not using our liberty as a stumbling block for the weaker brethren. (1 Cor 8:9-13; Romans 14:21).

Again, I agree. But I'm speaking to the broader effect our liberty has on the unsaved world. Who are what are we witnessing of when we're doing what they do?

 

[Zaac]

Like I said, your problem is with God.

Yep, back to ignore.

 

[webdog]

Yep, back to ignore.

Don't tease me like that.

If anything, your theological excrement is what needs to go on ignore.

 

[saturneptune]

Yep, back to ignore.

Hey, I did not even say anything. LOL. Seriously, I think the biggest danger for a Christian in relation to drugs is pain killers following a major operation. Almost four years ago, I had a six way heart bypass. The sternum did not grow back properly and still pops and cracks, along with the lower back problems. Well, the doctor gives you probably lortab, maybe two a day at 10 mg. After a while, they do not work, and you ask for 3, and they give it to you. After a year, it takes four. It is like a frog in a slowly boiling pot of water. One does not even realize what they are doing to themselves. At some point, it ceases to be a pain issue, and becomes an issue of I cannot do without them. The wakeup call came for me when a prescription got lost in the mail. This is a road that no one wants to travel. Lortabs, in a quantity of four a day do not give you a high anyhow, but you want them. I bit the bullet and am now down to 1-2 a day.

That is my story. I think ANYONE who deliberately takes drugs for a buzz is an idiot. One day the supply will dry up and you will pay a price of pain physically and psychologically you cannot imagine, and you might do it in jail.

 

[Mexdeaf]

This is pretty much just an issue in the North American Church. Christians in many other countries see nothing wrong with a beer or glass of wine with supper.

However, their public drunkenness and drunk-driving laws are generally much more stringent than those in the USA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drunk_driving_law_by_country

 

[Zaac]

Hey, I did not even say anything. LOL.

Not you Saturn. :laugh:

Seriously, I think the biggest danger for a Christian in relation to drugs is pain killers following a major operation. Almost four years ago, I had a six way heart bypass. The sternum did not grow back properly and still pops and cracks, along with the lower back problems. Well, the doctor gives you probably lortab, maybe two a day at 10 mg. After a while, they do not work, and you ask for 3, and they give it to you. After a year, it takes four. It is like a frog in a slowly boiling pot of water. One does not even realize what they are doing to themselves. At some point, it ceases to be a pain issue, and becomes an issue of I cannot do without them. The wakeup call came for me when a prescription got lost in the mail. This is a road that no one wants to travel. Lortabs, in a quantity of four a day do not give you a high anyhow, but you want them. I bit the bullet and am now down to 1-2 a day.

That is my story. I think ANYONE who deliberately takes drugs for a buzz is an idiot. One day the supply will dry up and you will pay a price of pain physically and psychologically you cannot imagine, and you might do it in jail.

SN, I told someobdoy else about an epidemic amongst the Church of using prescription pain pills. It has gone crazy but the very same people will look at folks who have a non=prescription drug problem as though they are the scum of the earth.

 

[Zaac]

This is pretty much just an issue in the North American Church. Christians in many other countries see nothing wrong with a beer or glass of wine with supper.

However, their public drunkenness and drunk-driving laws are generally much more stringent than those in the USA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drunk_driving_law_by_country

The atrocities connected to drinking are pretty much universal. And I'm not talking about what Christians see as wrong based upon their need to exercise their liberties. I'm talking about Christians taking part in something that in every country leads to the same things: drunkenness, deaths, violence, other drug use, etc.

 

[DHK]

This is pretty much just an issue in the North American Church. Christians in many other countries see nothing wrong with a beer or glass of wine with supper.

However, their public drunkenness and drunk-driving laws are generally much more stringent than those in the USA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drunk_driving_law_by_country

And in some other countries (Muslim nations) alcohol is banned completely. If your found with a bottle of wine it can land you a jail sentence. Third world jails are dreadful. You might not live long enough in one to see freedom again.

 

[saturneptune]

And in some other countries (Muslim nations) alcohol is banned completely. If your found with a bottle of wine it can land you a jail sentence. Third world jails are dreadful. You might not live long enough in one to see freedom again.

An incident in the Navy, we were in an Italian port on leave. One of the crew members got too drunk and hit an Italian citizen over the head with a wine bottle. He was arrested and thrown into an Italian jail. Although Italy is not a third world country, it still is not like a jail in the US or Canada. The jails in Italy are dirty and dangerous. They have no Bill of Rights like we do. One can languish in jail for years even on a minor charge before trial. Anyway, the ship delayed its departure to see if the diplomatic authorities could get him out, to no avail. The ship left the Italian port, and I have no idea what happened to him to this day.

 

[Born Again]

Moved to general thread.

 

[Born Again]

I have a "Budweiser, the King of Beers" bumper sticker on my truck, and regularly wear my trusty "Heineken, Open your world today!" t-shirt while running errands around town, and plan to take my Kendall-Jackson "A Taste of the Truth" wine to our subdivision's monthly wine tasting social. Would anyone object to me changing my profile pic to a bottle of my favorite scotch, Glenfiddich Scotch Whisky, "The Independent Spirit"? I don't drink to get intoxicated like some others here so there's no reason to fear it would send the wrong message to anyone, right?

 

[Gregory Perry Sr.]

Incredible....!

After reading Sister Judith's OP and every subsequent post in this thread I guess I'll toss my 2cents worth in the hat. I'll also mention that I'm not gonna dignify the closest previous post in this thread with a response. I am gonna shift gears and toss another iron into the fire/discussion. Alcohol has been the prime factor in the probable damnation and definite DEATH of numerous of my own loved ones and it is ONLY by the grace of God that it didn't get it's addictive and destructive "hooks" into me. I will say that it (drinking)was at least one of the "ingredients" in much personal shame and sin in my own life over the years. Some of the despicable things I did under the "influence" are forever unmentionable, but thankfully forgiven by my loving, merciful God.
That said, bless you sister Judith...you have it RIGHT. You too Zaac. Now, the other iron I'm gonna pitch into the fire is this....How can ANYONE who names the name of Christ as Lord and Saviour SPEND the money that He provides you to fatten the coffers of these modern day merchants of death and debauchery such as Anheuser-Busch, Miller brewing, or any of the liquor or wine brewers or dealers? Can you honestly do that with a clear conscience? I'm just gonna leave it at that. It is a sad day that we live in. "Come out from among them and be ye seperate..."

Bro.Greg:saint:

 

[Born Again]

I'll also mention that I'm not gonna dignify the closest previous post in this thread with a response.
Bro.Greg:saint:

Will all due respect, I believe you missed the point of my post. (Sarcasm... hint hint).

 

[Gregory Perry Sr.]

My Apologies...!

Will all due respect, I believe you missed the point of my post. (Sarcasm... hint hint).

Please accept my public apology Richard. I will say though that your sarcasm was almost a bit too convincing. Besides...there are probably some here (no names mentioned):tear: for whom that kind of a post would not have been sarcasm...but rather factual. I've been around here for awhile and have seen some unbelievable and incredibly stupid things said by folks who profess to be in the grace of God. Signs of the times we live in I guess.

Bro.Greg:saint:

 

[Zaac]

Will all due respect, I believe you missed the point of my post. (Sarcasm... hint hint).

You never know on this board. I think when you've had to bury a child...an entire family in your immediate family or community because of this stuff, any excuse for using it loses it's luster.

When you've seen marriages torn apart...when you've seen folks lose everything because they are nasty, vomit and go to the bathroom on themselves drunks...when you've seen wives nearly beaten to death...when you're the first one on the scene of that accident and bodies have been flung from the car and you smell the alcohol...when you go to the morgue to identify your child's body because he took his life and in his journal you see that the use of all the drugs started with that first drink...

Christians should be screaming for folks to stay away from that stuff.

But we're selfish. An an increase in our own personal wickedness will cause our love to grow cold.

 

[Gregory Perry Sr.]

Truth Is not always "Nice"

You never know on this board. I think when you've had to bury a child...an entire family in your immediate family or community because of this stuff, any excuse for using it loses it's luster.

When you've seen marriages torn apart...when you've seen folks lose everything because they are nasty, vomit and go to the bathroom on themselves drunks...when you've seen wives nearly beaten to death...when you're the first one on the scene of that accident and bodies have been flung from the car and you smell the alcohol...when you go to the morgue to identify your child's body because he took his life and in his journal you see that the use of all the drugs started with that first drink...

Christians should be screaming for folks to stay away from that stuff.

But we're selfish. An an increase in our own personal wickedness will cause our love to grow cold.

:thumbsup: Well said Zaac...well said.

Bro.Greg:saint: