-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Redemption
- Thread starter Van
- Start date
- Status
Y1 now claims Jesus became more powerful that God the Father or God the Holy Spirit and could alone limit His knowledge.
Mar 13:32
“But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
How could Jesus who is "all knowing" not know? How could the Holy Spirit who is all knowing not know since He searches all things?
Y1 will once again evade answering, because his claims are unbiblical.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Okay I agree with that passage. Do you want to explain your view of it since you brought it up ?
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
37818
Well-Known Member
Our salvation is completely from God. While our faith is the basis in which God grants us salvation, our faith does not and is not any kind of merit for salvation. Since it is God who is the one who changes our mind in order to believe.
And I am going to say that His purchase was made when He died as a ransom for all, therefore logical necessity requires that 2 Peter 2:1 is referring to being bought with His blood.
And note folks, no alternate view, bought with "something else" has been put forward.
Post 74 is consistent with Christ purchasing all mankind with His blood. Thus obfuscation on display
Before attempting to understand the biblical meaning of redemption, we need to ask, “redemption from what?” The most consistent picture is that of slaves or captives being set free from bondage after the payment of a price.
The root meaning of the Greek words translated redeemed or redemption is loosening, with some forms of the word being combined with “apo” meaning “out from.” So the idea of the combined word is to be not only providing the price of freedom, but also the transport from captivity to someplace else, e.g. deliverance.
The Greek word transliterated “lutrosin” (G3085) appears three times, Luke 1:68, Luke 2:38 and Hebrews 9:12.
In Luke 1:68 we see the prophecy that God visited us and provided redemption for His people. This usage presents the idea of possible rescue and salvation from a bad situation, Right off the bat we encounter one of the difficulties in understanding "redemption" because many translation present that Christ accomplished redemption, whereas others (correctly in my opinion) present that Christ provided for the redemption of His people. If we co-mingle ransom and redemption, we create a muddle.
Luke 2:38 references people who are “anticipating their redemption in Jerusalem."
In Hebrews 9:12, we see that Christ through His blood procured eternal redemption. This fits the picture of being ransomed by the payment of a redemption-price. Further, this redemption is eternal; it does not have a shelf life.
In Luke 24:21 we find "lytroō" (G3084) which is translated as "redeem." The meaning is to cause the release upon receipt of the ransom. Thus when God transfers a condemned individual from the realm of darkness into the kingdom of His Son, the individual is redeemed. This word also appears in Titus 2:14 and 1 Peter 1:18. Note that Jesus gave Himself up (dying on the cross) to redeem us by providing the redemption-price for our salvation.
Jesus was both the High Priest who slays the sacrifice and then sprinkles the blood on those receiving the benefit of the sacrifice, and the sacrifice, the Lamb of God.
Romans 3:24 says (NASB), “being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus.” God’s grace can accomplish many varied things, and so Paul makes it clear that the grace being given is through or by the means of the redemption [deliverance], which is in Christ Jesus. So this verse points to receiving the benefit of Christ’s sacrifice when we are put “in Christ” rather than when He shed His precious blood on the cross. Here the Greek word rendered "redemption" is "apolytrōsis" (G629).
Romans 8:23, here G629 is applied to our bodily redemption at Christ's second coming.
1 Corinthians 1:30 says: "But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption," (G629) Once God has redeemed us by placing us into Christ (our redemption from the domain of darkness, and thus being set apart within Christ (sanctification), we undergo the washing of regeneration and are born anew, which results in our being made the righteousness of God, we are then sealed in Christ with the Holy Spirit who becomes our wisdom from God.
Ephesians 1:7 says (NASB), “In Him we have redemption (G629) through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace.” So again, only when “in Him” (within Him) do we have the gift of His redemptive grace, which sets us free from every lawless deed, the forgiveness of our trespasses.
Ephesians 1:14 and 4:30 refer to our redemption (G629) from our corrupt flesh. But as a sidelight when we are placed spiritually into Christ, we received our eternal redemption from the bondage of sin, and we are sealed with the Holy Spirit in Christ as a pledge of our inheritance which is to be raised in glorified bodies, set free from the corruption of the flesh. Thus those within Christ have been past tense spiritually redeemed, and are predestined to be bodily redeemed at Christ's second coming.
Next, Colossians 1:13-14 completely summarizes the biblical concept of redemption from the bondage of sin. “For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
Hebrews 9:15: For this reason He is the mediator of a new covenant, so that, since a death has taken place for the redemption (G629) of the transgressions that were committed under the first covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance. Another word used with more than one intended meaning is "called" which in this verse refers to be transferred spiritually into Christ.
Hebrews 11:35 has our last example: "Women received back their dead by resurrection; and others were tortured, not accepting their release (G629), so that they might obtain a better resurrection; Here G629 should be rendered "redemption" referring to an earthly release from captivity.
In summary four Greek words are translated as redeemed or redemption, but the concept is clear, being relocated from the realm of darkness into Christ spiritually, or out of our (dead or alive) mortal and corrupt body into our glorified body. He paid the price of redemption on the cross, the ransom for all, but only when God puts us spiritually into Christ are we "redeemed."
God Bless
The root meaning of the Greek words translated redeemed or redemption is loosening, with some forms of the word being combined with “apo” meaning “out from.” So the idea of the combined word is to be not only providing the price of freedom, but also the transport from captivity to someplace else, e.g. deliverance.
The Greek word transliterated “lutrosin” (G3085) appears three times, Luke 1:68, Luke 2:38 and Hebrews 9:12.
In Luke 1:68 we see the prophecy that God visited us and provided redemption for His people. This usage presents the idea of possible rescue and salvation from a bad situation, Right off the bat we encounter one of the difficulties in understanding "redemption" because many translation present that Christ accomplished redemption, whereas others (correctly in my opinion) present that Christ provided for the redemption of His people. If we co-mingle ransom and redemption, we create a muddle.
Luke 2:38 references people who are “anticipating their redemption in Jerusalem."
In Hebrews 9:12, we see that Christ through His blood procured eternal redemption. This fits the picture of being ransomed by the payment of a redemption-price. Further, this redemption is eternal; it does not have a shelf life.
In Luke 24:21 we find "lytroō" (G3084) which is translated as "redeem." The meaning is to cause the release upon receipt of the ransom. Thus when God transfers a condemned individual from the realm of darkness into the kingdom of His Son, the individual is redeemed. This word also appears in Titus 2:14 and 1 Peter 1:18. Note that Jesus gave Himself up (dying on the cross) to redeem us by providing the redemption-price for our salvation.
Jesus was both the High Priest who slays the sacrifice and then sprinkles the blood on those receiving the benefit of the sacrifice, and the sacrifice, the Lamb of God.
Romans 3:24 says (NASB), “being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus.” God’s grace can accomplish many varied things, and so Paul makes it clear that the grace being given is through or by the means of the redemption [deliverance], which is in Christ Jesus. So this verse points to receiving the benefit of Christ’s sacrifice when we are put “in Christ” rather than when He shed His precious blood on the cross. Here the Greek word rendered "redemption" is "apolytrōsis" (G629).
Romans 8:23, here G629 is applied to our bodily redemption at Christ's second coming.
1 Corinthians 1:30 says: "But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption," (G629) Once God has redeemed us by placing us into Christ (our redemption from the domain of darkness, and thus being set apart within Christ (sanctification), we undergo the washing of regeneration and are born anew, which results in our being made the righteousness of God, we are then sealed in Christ with the Holy Spirit who becomes our wisdom from God.
Ephesians 1:7 says (NASB), “In Him we have redemption (G629) through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace.” So again, only when “in Him” (within Him) do we have the gift of His redemptive grace, which sets us free from every lawless deed, the forgiveness of our trespasses.
Ephesians 1:14 and 4:30 refer to our redemption (G629) from our corrupt flesh. But as a sidelight when we are placed spiritually into Christ, we received our eternal redemption from the bondage of sin, and we are sealed with the Holy Spirit in Christ as a pledge of our inheritance which is to be raised in glorified bodies, set free from the corruption of the flesh. Thus those within Christ have been past tense spiritually redeemed, and are predestined to be bodily redeemed at Christ's second coming.
Next, Colossians 1:13-14 completely summarizes the biblical concept of redemption from the bondage of sin. “For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
Hebrews 9:15: For this reason He is the mediator of a new covenant, so that, since a death has taken place for the redemption (G629) of the transgressions that were committed under the first covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance. Another word used with more than one intended meaning is "called" which in this verse refers to be transferred spiritually into Christ.
Hebrews 11:35 has our last example: "Women received back their dead by resurrection; and others were tortured, not accepting their release (G629), so that they might obtain a better resurrection; Here G629 should be rendered "redemption" referring to an earthly release from captivity.
In summary four Greek words are translated as redeemed or redemption, but the concept is clear, being relocated from the realm of darkness into Christ spiritually, or out of our (dead or alive) mortal and corrupt body into our glorified body. He paid the price of redemption on the cross, the ransom for all, but only when God puts us spiritually into Christ are we "redeemed."
God Bless
Its the One whom faith is placed into that saves us, not faith itself!
Y1 continues to avoid answering one simple single question. No Yes, No No, just defection.
Y1 now claims Jesus became more powerful than God the Father or God the Holy Spirit and could alone limit His knowledge. How could Jesus who was "all knowing" while incarnate not know the time of His return? How could the Holy Spirit who is all knowing not know since He searches all things?
If Jesus had the power to limit His knowledge, and God the Father and God the Holy Spirit did not, then according to Y1, Jesus is more powerful than the other members of the Trinity. Very unorthodox to say the least.
Last edited:
No to what? No that Jesus is more powerful than the Father or the Holy Spirit? If that is what you meant to say, then I agree, and we disagree with Y1. If you were saying something else, you need to explain the No. And of course none of the Persons of the Trinity had a beginning, but that is not at issue.
On and on folks, deflection upon deflection, evasion after evasion.
Y1 now claims Jesus became more powerful than God the Father or God the Holy Spirit and could alone limit His knowledge. How could Jesus who was "all knowing" while incarnate not know the time of His return? How could the Holy Spirit who is all knowing not know since He searches all things?
If Jesus had the power to limit His knowledge, and God the Father and God the Holy Spirit did not, then according to Y1, Jesus is more powerful than the other members of the Trinity. Very unorthodox to say the least.
So you are saying that each Person of the Trinity has the power to limit His knowledge?
- Status