Reformed Baptists

[Armchair Apologist]

That is consistent with the teaching of most Reformed Baptist churches.

Chapter 3, Paragraph 1 of the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith states that God has eternally and unchangeably decreed "whatsoever comes to pass".

Many RBs want to avoid calling this what it actually is—fatalism.

This is HYPER-Calvinism and is what most Reformed Baptists would denounce and preach against. Most Reformed Baptists acknowledge both God's sovereignty and man's responsibility! I'm sure you would have figured this out with a few keystrokes in the search engine rather than relying upon misinformation and anti-Calvinist bias.

 

[JonC]

This is HYPER-Calvinism and is what most Reformed Baptists would denounce and preach against. Most Reformed Baptists acknowledge both God's sovereignty and man's responsibility! I'm sure you would have figured this out with a few keystrokes in the search engine rather than relying upon misinformation and anti-Calvinist bias.

That part is not hyper-Calvinism. What typically results in hyper-Calvinism results from what is done with that.

Calvinism views man as failing his responsibility and God saving by decree. @Kai is correct in that most Reformed Baptists accept salvation as being along the lines of the 1689 London Baptist Confession. It is a stagnant theology.

The change occurred with Beza. He placed salvation under the category of divine sovereignty.

 

[Kai]

This is HYPER-Calvinism and is what most Reformed Baptists would denounce and preach against. Most Reformed Baptists acknowledge both God's sovereignty and man's responsibility! I'm sure you would have figured this out with a few keystrokes in the search engine rather than relying upon misinformation and anti-Calvinist bias.

1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith Chapter 5, Paragraph 2:​

Although in relation to the foreknowledge and decree of God, the first cause, all things come to pass immutably and infallibly; so that there is not anything befalls any by chance, or without His providence; yet by the same providence He ordered them to fall out according to the nature of second causes, either necessarily, freely, or contingently.

 

[Kai]

That part is not hyper-Calvinism.

This is what the late R.C. Sproul had to say:

"If there is one single molecule in this universe running around loose, totally free of God's sovereignty, then we have no guarantee that a single promise of God will ever be fulfilled."

He claimed that he was not a hyper-Calvinist.

 

[Kai]

@Armchair Apologist

I'm quite confident that I haven't been relying on false information, and I certainly don't have any biases one way or the other. I find myself disagreeing with aspects of both Calvinism and Arminianism equally, while also appreciating certain elements from each tradition.

What I've discovered is that Calvin's theological framework seems to lead inevitably toward fatalistic determinism. Despite giving Calvinist thinkers endless opportunities to clarify how their system avoids this conclusion, I haven't found their explanations convincing or satisfactory.

 

[Silverhair]

If, as Romans 8 tells us, God foreknew, predestined, called, justified, and glorified sinners, then no, there is no possibility that once saved, they could be lost:

By your answer you have just said that your "elect " were saved prior to creation.

But you dismiss the verses that show just the opposite of you position.

1Ti_4:1 in latter times some will depart G868 from the faith

Heb_3:12 Take care, brethren, that there not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart that falls away G868 from the living God.

Heb_6:4-6 in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance

2Th_2:3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it {the day of the Lord} will not come unless the apostasy G646 comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed,

That is not so. As Martin said, God also appointed the means by which sinners should be saved, including hearing the gospel, believing on the Lord Jesus Christ, and repenting of our sins.

Yes God has provided the means, faith in the risen Christ. But for the consistent calvinist that claims they were picked out prior to creation your faith is not required as according to your theology you cannot be lost so you were saved then.

So while the bible is clear that sinners are saved by His grace when we respond in faith repenting of our sins for the consistent calvinist that would not necessary as you have already been saved prior to creation. You even claim that you are already saved and God just has to give you faith.

Your whole theology is built on sand and manmade ideas.

No. It exemplifies His sovereignty.

So in His sovereignty He arbitrarily condemned the vast majority of humanity to hell. So much for the love of God for the whole world.

I don't believe so. Rather, I think you misunderstand what Martin and I believe, as we have both tried to tell you many times. Rather, you often seem to tell us what we believe, and that bears little resemblance to what we actually believe.

Actually I would say I have a good understanding of what you and Martin believe. What you believe does not comport with scripture.

 

[Ascetic X]

I personally combine both views.

Omniscient God foreknows who will be saved, and they are called the elect, those who are chosen by God, because they by free will decided to choose God.

The mystery, unsolvable by human reasoning, is why certain individuals repented and most did not.

It cannot be true that God arbitrarily selected some souls to draw to His Son, or to put repentance into, and rejected the rest of humanity.

All we really know is that seeds are planted in souls, called soils, and some souls contain seeds that take root and grow, while in some souls, the seeds shoot up zealously, then fizzle out, or do not have any apparent effect at all.

Our freely choosing to have faith in Christ does not mean we worked for salvation or saved ourselves.

Quarreling over mysteries, where both sides have good points, and conflicting truths seem valid in a conundrum or paradox, is sin.