Reformed Churches Join Catholic-Lutheran Accord Regarding Justification

[Adonia]

You are asking for a lot here. If you force them to use sola scriptura, their theology tumbles like a deck of cards. They consider sola scriptura a heresy, and have to have oral traditions as well.

Ah, the false gospel of Sola Scriptura! Such a thing never came to the fore until the 15th century, and you say we make things up? It's YOUR theology that tumbles like a deck of cards with it's man made determinations. We look to both - tradition and the Scriptures with each having their proper role. Jesus created a church to decide things properly, He did not just write a book and leave it to each individual adherent to decide things for him or herself.

 

[Adonia]

It's too bad that many whom you idolize are not in heaven because they never knew the grace of God. Yes they were pious, pious doesn't save anyone. Have you read the memories of Ms Theresa? She, sadly, was empty in her spirit, not knowing God, but serving for the sake of others.

Oh, now you know who is actually in heaven or not? I fear you have gone off the deep end and have far exceeded your limited capabilities of discernment. Let us leave this particular determination in the hands of the Almighty, shall we? He decides, not you!

As for Mother Theresa, she had more spirit in her little finger than you have in your whole being. Yes she entered a period of darkness in her life, but eventually came out of it. Her whole life was seeing Christ in others and acting accordingly, a concept that apparently you simply cannot fathom.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Ah, the false gospel of Sola Scriptura! Such a thing never came to the fore until the 15th century, and you say we make things up? It's YOUR theology that tumbles like a deck of cards with it's man made determinations. We look to both - tradition and the Scriptures with each having their proper role. Jesus created a church to decide things properly, He did not just write a book and leave it to each individual adherent to decide things for him or herself.

One more for my killfire file.

 

[MennoSota]

Catholic church doesn't teach works salvation. Just because someone order's a burger with no mustard it doesn't mean they wanted extra ketchup.

We actually have the rules spelled out, its funny you still have to make up what we believe to point something wrong with it.

We never have to do that with you. I guess honor gets regenerated a lot later.

You say "no works", but then say "we have the rules spelled out."

Uti, that's works salvation.

By the way, the rules of God condemn you. You need God's grace, which is much different than Romanist grace.

 

[MennoSota]

As I do when you consistently misinterpret it.

Have you ever read the Bible without your handy guide to Rome's version?

 

[MennoSota]

Oh, now you know who is actually in heaven or not? I fear you have gone off the deep end and have far exceeded your limited capabilities of discernment. Let us leave this particular determination in the hands of the Almighty, shall we? He decides, not you!

As for Mother Theresa, she had more spirit in her little finger than you have in your whole being. Yes she entered a period of darkness in her life, but eventually came out of it. Her whole life was seeing Christ in others and acting accordingly, a concept that apparently you simply cannot fathom.

She was an outwardly excellent person. Her good works did not save her. Her church teachings have lead many to their damnation.
She worked hard for her salvation, I give her that. She worked harder than the popes.

 

[MennoSota]

We look to both - tradition and the Scriptures with each having their proper role.

Well...you have the order correct. You look to tradition and force the Bible to be a prooftext for your pretext out of context. That's not the proper role.

Switch it around.

The Bible speaks and directs any tradition created by men. When the tradition gets twisted into heresy, you throw out the tradition because it no longer is in alignment with the Bible.

Any tradition contrary to scripture is anathema. Thus much of Romanist tradition is thrown out and anathema.

 

[Covenanter]

Can we leave off the accusations and discuss the OP, please.

Is this a basis for church unity? The WCRC seemed doubtful as I am also.

We have a much loved Polish Catholic d-i-l with two precious little children. I'm looking for common understanding leading to a living faith, not controversy.

Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez

 

[Adonia]

Have you ever read the Bible without your handy guide to Rome's version?

Yes, and I agree with their orthodox interpretation of it. The only other alternative is having an interpretation of it such as yours and your scholarship on the issue leaves much to be desired.

 

[Adonia]

She was an outwardly excellent person. Her good works did not save her. Her church teachings have lead many to their damnation.
She worked hard for her salvation, I give her that. She worked harder than the popes.

She did not do those good works in order to be saved, but did them because they were a command to her from her Savior, a command that says she was to love others. She saw Christ in each dying and destitute person and I cannot understand why you feel the need to question her motives. She was who she was and her Christlike life speaks volumes - at least to some people. It is not your place to judge any aspect of this woman's life. Judge not, lest YOU be judged - remember that one?

 

[Walter]

I was wondering when this often repeated charge was going to come up once again.

Yes, it will raise it's ugly head again and again on this board. The 'Landmarkers' who post here most often make that accusation. They are also the biggest adherents of 'Baptist Succession' which most other Baptists realize is a joke. 'The Catholic Church Is The Whore Of Babylon' would make a good thread except it has been taken apart on the BB again and again over the years. Dave Hunt's writings are the most commonly used resource for these people. Of course, they will argue they come to this understanding by their Holy Spirit inspired interpretation of scripture 'alone', but then you find excerpts of Hunt's writings strewn throughout the posts.

 

[Yeshua1]

There are Catholic priests in the church right now who are married and with children. If you want to be a married catholic priest.... just ask God.




I'm still waiting for you fellahs to tell me what this bible verse means. I never said a word. I don't see how you guys are so offended by holy scripture.



1 Corinthians 7

32But I want you to be free from concern. One who is unmarried is concerned about the things of the Lord, how he may please the Lord; 33but one who is married is concerned about the things of the world, how he may please his wife,

There is NO scripture mandate that forces priests to all be celibate!

 

[Walter]

Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez

Good luck with that, lol! However, a statement by the Vatican’s Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity said the Wittenberg signing ceremony “must be seen as another important milestone on the journey towards the full visible unity of Christians; not yet the end of the road but a significant stage on the way.” I am certainly encouraged.

 

[Walter]

There is NO scripture mandate that forces priests to all be celibate!

And (as you conveniently continue to ignore) there is no mandate by the Catholic Church that all priests be celibate. It is only a discipline of the Latin Rite. The Catholic Church has thousands upon thousands of married priests.

There was a bb member here posting on another thread that stated the reason she left the Catholic Church was because the Catholic Church 'forbid' it's clergy to marry and after she read the bible she realized she 'had been duped'. She said she studied and studied before making her decision to leave but when shown she was wrong about 'all priests must be celibate' and many other so called 'Catholic lies and inventions' she said I was the one lying.

 

[Yeshua1]

And (as you conveniently continue to ignore) there is no mandate by the Catholic Church that all priests be celibate. It is only a discipline of the Latin Rite. The Catholic Church has thousands upon thousands of married priests.

RC Priests cannot be married....Not unless they converted to Rome, such as Lutheran priests, and were married already!

 

[Walter]

RC Priests cannot be married....Not unless they converted to Rome, such as Lutheran priests, and were married already!

Absolutely wrong! Again, you think you know something about the Catholic Church when you clearly don't. Only in the Latin Rite are priests celibate. You need to study more. I remember DHK making the same claim as you only to have to finally admit he was wrong. Want proof?

Eastern Catholic Churches - Wikipedia

'The Eastern Catholic Churches or Oriental Catholic Churches, also called the Eastern-rite Catholic Churches, Greek Catholic Churches, and in some historical cases Uniate Churches,[a] are 23 Eastern Christian particular churches sui iuris in full communion with the Pope in Rome, as part of the worldwide Catholic Church.

 

[Walter]

RC Priests cannot be married....Not unless they converted to Rome, such as Lutheran priests, and were married already!

You see, one of your problems is that you only see what you want to see. The Catholic Church is NOT the 'RC' church. It is a world wide Church made up of many different rites making up 'The Holy Catholic Church'. The Latin Rite is the largest and is what you usually see in the West. However, there are Eastern Rite Catholic Churches all over the U.S. as well and their priests are often married. If a person has a vocation to the priesthood and also a vocation to be married then he can be both in one of the Eastern Rites of the Catholic Church.

Read carefully in the link I provided: 'Notably, Eastern Catholic churches apply different traditions concerning clerical celibacy than the Latin Church: in general, Eastern Catholic Churches allow the ordination of married men as priests.'

 

[Bro. James]

East and West still have a giant schism which is over 1000 years old. The East does not recognize the petrine bishopric being at the top of all other bishoprics. While the East and West may have recinded their mutual excommunications, they are not exactly in agreement about who is in charge. This seems to be a major bone of contention.

There is also some disagreement as to who the Virgin Mary might be.

Just change the definitions of the jargon--everything will be all right.

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

 

[Yeshua1]

Absolutely wrong! Again, you think you know something about the Catholic Church when you clearly don't. Only in the Latin Rite are priests celibate. You need to study more. I remember DHK making the same claim as you only to have to finally admit he was wrong. Want proof?

Eastern Catholic Churches - Wikipedia

'The Eastern Catholic Churches or Oriental Catholic Churches, also called the Eastern-rite Catholic Churches, Greek Catholic Churches, and in some historical cases Uniate Churches,[a] are 23 Eastern Christian particular churches sui iuris in full communion with the Pope in Rome, as part of the worldwide Catholic Church.

I referred to the RCC correct?

 

[Yeshua1]

You see, one of your problems is that you only see what you want to see. The Catholic Church is NOT the 'RC' church. It is a world wide Church made up of many different rites making up 'The Holy Catholic Church'. The Latin Rite is the largest and is what you usually see in the West. However, there are Eastern Rite Catholic Churches all over the U.S. as well and their priests are often married. If a person has a vocation to the priesthood and also a vocation to be married then he can be both in one of the Eastern Rites of the Catholic Church.

Read carefully in the link I provided: 'Notably, Eastern Catholic churches apply different traditions concerning clerical celibacy than the Latin Church: in general, Eastern Catholic Churches allow the ordination of married men as priests.'

I understand that they do, as I was addressing the Church of Rome, and east and west still deny Pauline Justification!