Refusing service

[convicted1]

Christianity is the standard and pillar of the truth.

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbs:

 

[OldRegular]

There you go. Love your neighbor as yourself.

That is a long way from love the sinner. Am I supposed to love that Philly abortionist who killed babies for a living? Am I supposed to love all those abortionists who kill babies for a living? Am I supposed to love this responsible for the slaughter of 56+million babies since 1973.

Am I supposed to love the Boston Terrorist who ran over his own brother. Am I supposed to love all Islamic terrorists?

Do you love all these people. Do you love Obama?

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

iam not drunk on any wine, never drank, just striving to stay "drunk on the Holy Spirit!"



And weddings gave everything to do with this, as next stage will be to force Pastors to saunction same sex weddings, or else either get defroked, or in jail for refusal to do them!

There is a simple solution to this. Pastors do not need to do the legal bit.

Because of many factors in this country (Ireland) a lot of pastors don't legal weddings. We accompany the couple to the registry office, witness their legal procedure, then hold a wedding service for them with the church. That way they have met the legal requirement and the church celebrates their union before God.

 

[righteousdude2]

We no longer have that right,

I have a question. I am assuming that most are aware of the cases around the US where homosexual couples want a service from a business that is owned by a Christian and the owner refuses to serve them. One was a woman who had a photography service and did weddings and the homosexual couple wanted her to do the photos of their wedding. She refused and they sued and won. She was fined and I think went out of business. Another was a baker and a homosexual couple wanted a cake for their wedding and they refused and sued. There are also others.


My question is should we accommodate these people or are we within our rights and responsibilities as Christians to refuse? Does God expect us to refuse them service in such cases? Scripture reference please.

because we are AMERICANS! :thumbs:

Still, as a Christian, if an unrepentant Homosexual stood before me demanding I serve them through a portion og my business, I'd say no! But help them find another business to accomodate them!

 

[Aaron]

For all:

Okay, you're a baker and have some cakes made just to sell. They're in a display, and are plain, with a few flowers designed on them.

A gay couple comes in a wants one of these cakes, seeing they don't want anything extragivant(sp?). Now what would you do?

First, there is no such thing as a gay couple. A couple gay guys might come in, but how do I know they're gay? Are they performing sodomy in the store? (Little "love pats," pecks on the cheek, romantically holding hands or engaging in other public displays of affection that is natural and normal for a married couple? [Remember there is no such thing as gay marriage, so when I say "marriage," I mean real marriage.]). That's sodomy. Out they go.

Do they say, "We're gay!" Might as well holler the f-word. They just said, "We get off on deviant sex acts!" Out they go.

Do they wear the symbols of their erotic desires? e.g. men wearing that which pertains to women? Might as well wear a T-shirt with the f-word emblazoned across the front. Out they go.

A man or woman that keeps his erotic desires to himself and simply says, I want a cake for a wedding, gets a cake.

 

[Aaron]

That is a long way from love the sinner.

But that's what you do in your own case. You love the sinner and hate the sin.

Am I supposed to love that Philly abortionist who killed babies for a living? Am I supposed to love all those abortionists who kill babies for a living? Am I supposed to love this responsible for the slaughter of 56+million babies since 1973.

The wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God. Justice should be done upon them, but it is a perversion of justice to serve it with ill will.

Do you love all these people. Do you love Obama?

No, they're not my neighbors. They are the enemies of the public and of God.

 

[North Carolina Tentmaker]

For all:

Okay, you're a baker and have some cakes made just to sell. They're in a display, and are plain, with a few flowers designed on them.

A gay couple comes in a wants one of these cakes, seeing they don't want anything extragivant(sp?). Now what would you do?

Well I would sell them a cake. But that is not the issue here.

In the case of the baker the Gay pair (I won't couple just for Aaron). they had been long time customers of the baker and he stated he would be happy to make them birthday cakes and other baked goods. What he would not do is make them a wedding cake. Was that because he would have to deliver it to the wedding? Was that because they wanted two guys on top instead of a man and woman? I don't know, but that was where this particular baker drew the line of his faith.

This issue is not should they or what we as Christians should do. The issue is what is legal. I would serve the pair. But I also believe that Christians should have the right not to if that is their conviction. Just like a muslim should not be forced to serve alcohol or a Jew be forced to serve pork. That is freedom of religion and we need to defend it even when we disagree with the religion under discrimination and persecution.

 

[convicted1]

Well I would sell them a cake. But that is not the issue here.

In the case of the baker the Gay pair (I won't couple just for Aaron). they had been long time customers of the baker and he stated he would be happy to make them birthday cakes and other baked goods. What he would not do is make them a wedding cake. Was that because he would have to deliver it to the wedding? Was that because they wanted two guys on top instead of a man and woman? I don't know, but that was where this particular baker drew the line of his faith.

This issue is not should they or what we as Christians should do. The issue is what is legal. I would serve the pair. But I also believe that Christians should have the right not to if that is their conviction. Just like a muslim should not be forced to serve alcohol or a Jew be forced to serve pork. That is freedom of religion and we need to defend it even when we disagree with the religion under discrimination and persecution.

Sad part is our government would back the muslim and jew in their religious convictions. We CHRISTians??? Not so much...

 

[convicted1]

First, there is no such thing as a gay couple. A couple gay guys might come in, but how do I know they're gay? Are they performing sodomy in the store? (Little "love pats," pecks on the cheek, romantically holding hands or engaging in other public displays of affection that is natural and normal for a married couple? [Remember there is no such thing as gay marriage, so when I say "marriage," I mean real marriage.]). That's sodomy. Out they go.

Do they say, "We're gay!" Might as well holler the f-word. They just said, "We get off on deviant sex acts!" Out they go.

Do they wear the symbols of their erotic desires? e.g. men wearing that which pertains to women? Might as well wear a T-shirt with the f-word emblazoned across the front. Out they go.

A man or woman that keeps his erotic desires to himself and simply says, I want a cake for a wedding, gets a cake.

So you would run them out of your store? I wouldn't . I'd show them christian charity and explain to them I couldn't/wouldn't cater their "ceremony". But I'd never give them the "ole heave ho", unless they began acting rudely.

 

[Yeshua1]

What on earth are you talking about?



???



As I've said countless times before, God has defined what marriage is over in Genesis 2. There is no gay marriage for Christ following pastors to perform.Get back on point.

the christian business can refuse to be forced to cater a gay wedding, or to open the place up to have the reception, right?

Or is that that we ONLY have those rights within the building of the church, but outside, we must give those all up, in order to keep sinful society happy?

 

[Yeshua1]

Like any liberal you have to add to what another says because you have no biblical reply.

i assure you I am NO liberal, as I am a card carrying Conservative Evangelical Baptist!

YOU are the one taking the liberal views on this issue!

 

[salzer mtn]

Did anyone notice what Ellen Degeneratt did at the Emmy awards ? She ordered pizza from a Pizza joint named Mom & Pops brought the owner on the show and the Hollywood clowns couldn't wait to be served by Ellen the homosexual. This was all done to send a message to America, we won.

 

[Zaac]

the christian business can refuse to be forced to cater a gay wedding, or to open the place up to have the reception, right?

Or is that that we ONLY have those rights within the building of the church, but outside, we must give those all up, in order to keep sinful society happy?

You seem so set on convincing people that you're right about an issue that you have lost all GOD sense.

As a Christian business or any business, you don't have to state your reasons for not taking a job request.

Folks like you just seem to want to remind the homosexual how bad you think their sin is.

If a Christian business doesn't want to cater a gay union ceremony, then just say I can't do the job. But as mentioned before, you keep not doing jobs because folks are sinners, and you're gonna be out of business.

 

[Zaac]

Did anyone notice what Ellen Degeneratt did at the Emmy awards ? She ordered pizza from a Pizza joint named Mom & Pops brought the owner on the show and the Hollywood clowns couldn't wait to be served by Ellen the homosexual. This was all done to send a message to America, we won.

You're kidding, right? It appeared to be another silly bit of her act. But you managed to read into that homosexuals were sending to America a message that "we won"? SMH

 

[Yeshua1]

You seem so set on convincing people that you're right about an issue that you have lost all GOD sense.

As a Christian business or any business, you don't have to state your reasons for not taking a job request.

Folks like you just seem to want to remind the homosexual how bad you think their sin is.

If a Christian business doesn't want to cater a gay union ceremony, then just say I can't do the job. But as mentioned before, you keep not doing jobs because folks are sinners, and you're gonna be out of business.

Can you service a gay wedding, knowing that act is abomination in sight of God?

Dod God already give a different view on homosexual lifestyle that I missed? that OT law and Romans were somehow re edited by God?

Was that in the Queer james bible?

Would paul really have attending and help pass out the flowers for the gay couple at their wedding? would have Jesus?

 

[Yeshua1]

You're kidding, right? It appeared to be another silly bit of her act. But you managed to read into that homosexuals were sending to America a message that "we won"? SMH

that was a subtle thrust against those of us who are 'homophobic" in their eyes!

just imagine how they would have liked living in isreal under OT times!

 

[Zaac]

Can you service a gay wedding, knowing that act is abomination in sight of God?

According to Scripture, the following are also abominations:


Unclean things (Lev. 7:21)
Customs of pagans (Lev. 18:30)
Idols (2 Chr. 15:8; 1 Pet. 4:3)
Sins of men (Ps. 14:1; 53:1)
Cheating (Mic. 6:10)
Lost souls (Rev. 21:8)
A froward man (perverse; one who turns aside (Pro. 3:32; 11:20)
A proud look (Pro. 6:16-17)
A lying tongue (Pro. 6:17; 12:22)
Hands that shed innocent blood ((Pro. 6:17)
A wicked scheming heart (Pro. 6:18)
Feet that are quick to sin (Pro. 6:18)
A false witness that speaks lies (Pro. 6:19)
A sower of discord (Pro. 6:19)
Wickedness (Pro. 8:7)
A false balance or scale (Pro. 11:1)
Sacrifices of the wicked (Pro. 15:8; 21:27)
The way of the wicked (Pro. 15:9)
The thoughts of the wicked (Pro. 15:26)
The proud of heart (Pro. 16:5)
Justifying the wicked (Pro. 17:15)
Condemning the just (Pro. 17:15)
Divers, dishonest weights (Pro. 20:10, 23)
Divers, dishonest measures (Pro. 20:10)
Refusing to hear the law (Pro. 28:9)
Prayers of the rebel (Pro. 28:9)
Eating flesh of peace offerings on the 3rd day (Lev. 7:18)
Some same sex acts (Lev. 18:22; 20:13; Dt. 23:18)
Taking ornaments from idols when being destroyed (Dt. 7:25-26)
Any Idolatrous practices (Dt. 12:31; 13:14; 17:4; 18:9; 20:18; 29:17)
Offering an imperfect animal to God as a sacrifice (Dt. 17:1)
Any traffic with demons (Dt. 18:7-12)
Wearing clothes of the opposite sex (Dt. 22:5)
Bringing the hire of a harlot or sodomite into God's house (Dt. 23:18)
Re-marriage of former companions (Dt. 24:1-4)
Cheating others (Dt. 25:13-16)
Making images/idols (Dt. 27:15)
Idols of Ammon (1 Ki. 11:5)
Idols of Moab (1 Ki. 11:7; 2 Ki. 11:13)
Idols of Zidon (2 Ki. 23:13)
Incense offered by hypocrites (Isa. 1:13)
Eating unclean things (Isa. 66:17)
Offering human sacrifices (Jer. 32:35)
Robbery (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
Murder (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
Adultery (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
Oppression of others, particularly the poor or vulnerable (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
Violence (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
Breaking vows (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
Lending with interest to a brother (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
Lying with a menstruous woman (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
Hardness of heart (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
Injustice (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
Worship of anti-Christ (Dan. 11:31; 12:11; Mt. 24:15; 2 Th. 2:4; Rev. 13)
Incest (Lev. 19: 6-30)
Things highly esteemed by man (Lk. 16:15)
Many other sins of the nations (Lev. 18: 26-29; Dt. 18: 9-12; 20:18; 29:17; 1 Ki. 14:24; 21:2, 11; 23:24; 2 Chr. 28:3; 33:2; 34:33; 36:14; Ezek. 7: 3-20; 8: 6-17; 16: 2-58; 20: 4-30; Rev. 17: 4-5)


Are you gonna refuse to provide service to those who commit those other abominations too?

Dod God already give a different view on homosexual lifestyle that I missed? that OT law and Romans were somehow re edited by God?

God also gave laws about fornication, yet He showed love for the adulteress. Where's YOUR love?

Unless you are condemning all those who commit these other BIBLICAL abominations and likewise deeming them to not be worthy of receiving service, then you are committing a sin.

Was that in the Queer james bible?

It's obvious that you've got a serious chip on your shoulder about this one sin. Seek God's face about it.

Would paul really have attending and help pass out the flowers for the gay couple at their wedding? would have Jesus?

Stop asking stupid questions. There is no such thing as a Biblical wedding of two folks of the same sex so why would either Paul or Jesus have attended one?

 

[Zaac]

that was a subtle thrust against those of us who are 'homophobic" in their eyes!

You ARE homophobic. You keep trying to ac like you're just standing on what God's word says. But God's word is about loving HIM and loving people. There is nothing of your words that has ever spoken to loving these people.

Judgment will again begin with the church. Folks like you are so busy unrighteously judging these folks instead of showing them the love of Jesus that you fail to realize that your lack of love is being used by the enemy to keep these folks ensnared in sin and on the way to hell.

 

[Zaac]

Can you service a gay wedding, knowing that act is abomination in sight of God?

Still waiting. Can you service a wedding of any of the other folks who commit an abomination out of the things listed?

 

[Yeshua1]

According to Scripture, the following are also abominations:


Unclean things (Lev. 7:21)
Customs of pagans (Lev. 18:30)
Idols (2 Chr. 15:8; 1 Pet. 4:3)
Sins of men (Ps. 14:1; 53:1)
Cheating (Mic. 6:10)
Lost souls (Rev. 21:8)
A froward man (perverse; one who turns aside (Pro. 3:32; 11:20)
A proud look (Pro. 6:16-17)
A lying tongue (Pro. 6:17; 12:22)
Hands that shed innocent blood ((Pro. 6:17)
A wicked scheming heart (Pro. 6:18)
Feet that are quick to sin (Pro. 6:18)
A false witness that speaks lies (Pro. 6:19)
A sower of discord (Pro. 6:19)
Wickedness (Pro. 8:7)
A false balance or scale (Pro. 11:1)
Sacrifices of the wicked (Pro. 15:8; 21:27)
The way of the wicked (Pro. 15:9)
The thoughts of the wicked (Pro. 15:26)
The proud of heart (Pro. 16:5)
Justifying the wicked (Pro. 17:15)
Condemning the just (Pro. 17:15)
Divers, dishonest weights (Pro. 20:10, 23)
Divers, dishonest measures (Pro. 20:10)
Refusing to hear the law (Pro. 28:9)
Prayers of the rebel (Pro. 28:9)
Eating flesh of peace offerings on the 3rd day (Lev. 7:18)
Some same sex acts (Lev. 18:22; 20:13; Dt. 23:18)
Taking ornaments from idols when being destroyed (Dt. 7:25-26)
Any Idolatrous practices (Dt. 12:31; 13:14; 17:4; 18:9; 20:18; 29:17)
Offering an imperfect animal to God as a sacrifice (Dt. 17:1)
Any traffic with demons (Dt. 18:7-12)
Wearing clothes of the opposite sex (Dt. 22:5)
Bringing the hire of a harlot or sodomite into God's house (Dt. 23:18)
Re-marriage of former companions (Dt. 24:1-4)
Cheating others (Dt. 25:13-16)
Making images/idols (Dt. 27:15)
Idols of Ammon (1 Ki. 11:5)
Idols of Moab (1 Ki. 11:7; 2 Ki. 11:13)
Idols of Zidon (2 Ki. 23:13)
Incense offered by hypocrites (Isa. 1:13)
Eating unclean things (Isa. 66:17)
Offering human sacrifices (Jer. 32:35)
Robbery (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
Murder (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
Adultery (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
Oppression of others, particularly the poor or vulnerable (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
Violence (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
Breaking vows (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
Lending with interest to a brother (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
Lying with a menstruous woman (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
Hardness of heart (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
Injustice (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
Worship of anti-Christ (Dan. 11:31; 12:11; Mt. 24:15; 2 Th. 2:4; Rev. 13)
Incest (Lev. 19: 6-30)
Things highly esteemed by man (Lk. 16:15)
Many other sins of the nations (Lev. 18: 26-29; Dt. 18: 9-12; 20:18; 29:17; 1 Ki. 14:24; 21:2, 11; 23:24; 2 Chr. 28:3; 33:2; 34:33; 36:14; Ezek. 7: 3-20; 8: 6-17; 16: 2-58; 20: 4-30; Rev. 17: 4-5)


Are you gonna refuse to provide service to those who commit those other abominations too?



God also gave laws about fornication, yet He showed love for the adulteress. Where's YOUR love?

Unless you are condemning all those who commit these other BIBLICAL abominations and likewise deeming them to not be worthy of receiving service, then you are committing a sin.



It's obvious that you've got a serious chip on your shoulder about this one sin. Seek God's face about it.



Stop asking stupid questions. There is no such thing as a Biblical wedding of two folks of the same sex so why would either Paul or Jesus have attended one?

did God destroy an entire city for gossip/overeating/lying etc like he didi Sodom for their peculiar sin?

Do you see me as unloving of gays, since I desire to see them saved, yet NOT at expense of perverting the message to 'come to jesus, and stay in thatsin?"

Do you see the Lord allowing them to stay in same lifestyle, yet only demands lyers/gossips/fornicator to change then?

Did God call homosexual acts as being innatural against the created order, that was NEVER said of ther kinds of sins we can commit, right?