Regarding Drinking -----

[BillyMac]

4oz. of Mogan David before bedtime never hurt anyone. (no one but an alcoholic, that is).

In fact it is a great blood thinner according to one physician 40 years ago who prescribed it for an aged and very devout Christian lady who wrinkled up her nose at it as if protesting its use, despite its medicinal benefits. "...a little wine for the stomach's sake", she was reminded to remember.

 

[av1611jim]

The fact is: Red grapes are the efficacious substance which affects cholesterol, NOT alcohol. so eat red grapes. Don't drink booze.

The fact is: Aspirin thins blood. IF you need your blood thinned, use an aspirin a day. Don't drink booze.

The fact is: The US Supreme Court, by a vote of 5 to 4 ruled in 1954 that alcoholism was a disease. It was never considered such by the majoirty until then. Don't drink booze.

The FACT is that A.A. in its preface to the first edition wrote: "We of Alcoholics Anonymous are a fellowship of over one hundred men and women who HAVE RECOVERED from a seemingly hopeless state of mind and body. To show other alcoholics precisely how we have recovered is the main purpose of this book."
According to the "grandaddy" of 12 Step programs "recovering" is NOT real. Either you recover or you DON'T. Either you have recovered or you have NOT.

Guitarpreacher, TexasSky, and AVL1984:
I KNOW what I am speaking of. Testimony to follow.

BTW; my WIFE is an addictions counselor with a Masters Degree in the field. I am a RECOVERED alcoholic/drug addict. Jesus did it, once and for all. No such thing as "recovering".

In HIS service;
Jim

 

[av1611jim]

When I was 11 years old, my daddy thought it was time we four boys became "a man". He gave each of us a 1 oz. shot of 151 proof rum on New Years Eve as a "toast" to bring in a new year. The "burn" was magic for me. It made me "feel" ten foot tall and bullet proof. (Some here know what I mean) This was to be the key for many years. I LIKED how it made me FEEL. (Every drunk will tell you a similar story)
So later on, I stole that bottle and drank it all. If a little made me FEEL good, then a lot would make me FEEL GREAT! For the next 20 years, this "chasing the buzz" would dominate my every thought.
"Chasing the buzz" cost me two carrers. One, as a Marine officer, the other in the accounting dept. for Albertson's Inc. It cost me many trips to county jail in THREE different states. It cost me 2 1/2 YEARS in prison, (due to drugs). You see, an 11 year old boy can't buy booze, but he CAN find pot, pills, LSD, cocaine, and learn to make meth. So I did. Over the years, "chasing the buzz" would drive me to use vodka, pills, pot, peyote, LSd and Hashish all in one night: on many occasions. "Chasing the buzz" would drive me to rob, burglarize, steal, lie, cheat, manipulate, con, pawn, and fight. "Chasing the buzz" would also lead to all sorts of deviant sexual behavior. (Use your imagination)
It bagan to culminate one night in Oct.1988. In a rage, I shot up my neighborhood with my 30.06 rifle. I was arrested for possession, sales, and distribution of narcotics. Probation. But still no stopping. One year later, I was arrested for Methamphetamine Conspiracy. Through it all "John Barleycorn" was my constant companion.
This time, I ran. Fugitive from justice for a year until FEDERAL AUTHORITIES caught up with me. Prison. When I was put in what was to be my "home" for the next 5 years(I was paroled after 2 1/2), I hit my knees. "God, I deserve this. Forgive me. Help me. Save me. I am yours from now on. Do what you will. Thank you". He heard me. "Ps 34:6, This poor man cried, and the Lord heard him and saved him OUT of all his troubles".

I was saved in 1980, but I was never discipled. I didn't understand OBEDIENCE. So I slipped back to my familiar ways. It was to be another 11 YEARS of running on "self will run riot". That day in 1991 in that prison cell, I truly understood repentance and the POWER of God.

Today, I preach in prisons, (including the one I did me time in).

No drunk, I repeat, NO DRUNK need struggle IF they surrender to God. Half hearted surrender doesn't cut it. God wants ALL OR NOTHING.

THIS IS WHY THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS PART WAY. OR WHY THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS RECOVERING. YOU ARE EITHER RECOVERED, (past tense) OR YOU ARE NOT!!!

God either IS , or He is NOT! I really do not care what the opinion of other folks is. God either delivers 100%or He does NOT!!!

Alcoholism is NOT a disease. It is a repeated sinful behavior which become habitual that leads to addiction. If you want to CALL it a disease, please explain WHY it is the ONLY disease which can be arrested and CURED by quitting a behavior!!!

NO CHRISTIAN SHOULD DRINK.

In HIS service;
Jim

 

[shannonL]

Amen Jim,

I was saved in the county jail of my hometown. I totally agree with you it is a sinful behavior.

God does deliver 100%!!! Bill Stafford a good ole SB evangelist heard my testimony and said:
"Why you just switched fountains didn't ya son!"

Nothing like the fountain of Living Water to quench one's thirst.

 

[BillyMac]

Originally posted by BillyMac:
4oz. of Mogan David before bedtime never hurt anyone. (no one but an alcoholic, that is).

In fact it is a great blood thinner according to one physician 40 years ago who prescribed it for an aged and very devout Christian lady who wrinkled up her nose at it as if protesting its use, despite its medicinal benefits. "...a little wine for the stomach's sake", she was reminded to remember.

This little old lady was my grandmother, (1879-1976). She lived to be 97 years and 21 days old, and except for a few short weeks in her lifetime, she consumed some Mogan David. And she did it under protest and eventually just couldn't do it anymore. She was in her mid 80s when the doctor prescribed this for her to do. She couldn't continue with it as it was her son (who I mentioned in either this thread or another one here) who was an incestuous pedophile drunk and who commited suicide over the tragic loss by suicide of an incested daughter and the estrangement of 3 sons one of which was homosexual and died of AIDS complications and the estrangment of the rest of his wife adn his immediate family. His suicide was in 1955.

 

[Victory in Jesus]

I saw a television show recently where a patient had IBD disease and the doctor asked him if he smoked. The patient replied negatively. The doctor said, "Then buy yourself a pack of cigarettes and smoke one cigarette a day. This should help you. It's cheap and effective." The patient, confused, asked, "Isn't smoking addictive?" and the doctor replied, "Almost every drug I prescribe is addictive".

This is a type of tv program that tries to keep updated on current medical research, so I did a search for this and came across this web page at an NIH website.

I, for one, would not consider taking up smoking to gain relief from this (and it's something I was diagnosed with many years ago, but doubt that diagnosis is correct). I hate being around other people when they smoke (hate the smell and nausea it causes). Just because a doctor prescribes isomething doesn't necessarily mean we're obligated to go along with it or we'll die if we don't. From what I understand (and I admit, I didn't do extensive research on this), it just relieves the symptoms. Yet, smoking aggrevates crohn's disease symptoms. From what I understand, Crohn's is more of a smoker's type of disease and IBD is found in non-smokers. So, wouldn't it be possible to get Crohn's if the patient DID decide to follow doctor's orders and smoke a cigarette or two a day? Not to mention the heart disease and/or cancer it could accelerate in those already susceptible to it.

But, if a doctor prescribes jelly beans or Good'n'Plenty, I'm gonna have to run right out and purchase THAT prescription! Actually, I wouldn't have to...I keep a well-stocked supply.

 

[AVL1984]

I thought this thread was on drinking....

 

[Victory in Jesus]

It was.

 

[AVL1984]

It still SHOULD BE.

 

[Victory in Jesus]

 

[Victory in Jesus]

OK, here you go:

I saw a television show recently where a patient had IBD disease and the doctor asked him if he smoked. The patient replied negatively. The doctor said, "Then buy yourself a pack of cigarettes and smoke one cigarette a day. This should help you. It's cheap and effective." The patient, confused, asked, "Isn't smoking and drinking addictive?" and the doctor replied, "Almost every drug I prescribe is addictive, including drinking".

This is a type of tv program that tries to keep updated on current medical research about things including drinking, so I did a search for this and came across this web page at an NIH website.

I, for one, would not consider taking up smoking or drinking to gain relief from this (and it's something I was diagnosed with many years ago, but doubt that diagnosis is correct). I hate being around other people when they smoke (hate the smell and nausea it causes). Just because a doctor prescribes smoking or drinking doesn't necessarily mean we're obligated to go along with it or we'll die if we don't. From what I understand (and I admit, I didn't do extensive research on this), it just relieves the symptoms. Yet, smoking (and I assume drinking) aggrevates crohn's disease symptoms. From what I understand, Crohn's is more of a smoker's type of disease and IBD is found in non-smokers. So, wouldn't it be possible to get Crohn's if the patient DID decide to follow doctor's orders and smoke a cigarette or two a day? Not to mention the heart disease and/or cancer it could accelerate in those already susceptible to it.

But, if a doctor prescribes jelly beans or Good'n'Plenty, I'm gonna have to run right out and purchase THAT prescription! [Big Grin] Actually, I wouldn't have to...I keep a well-stocked supply....but I don't drink. I think it's too harmful for my body and not worth the risks.

 

[Victory in Jesus]

Seriously, I was just going along with the conversation. Yes, the title was "regarding drinking" but we began discussing other habits as well.

Initially I assumed you were just kidding, but I'm beginning to believe you're serious (which was why I removed my post). If so, I apologize. I am not sure why my post was offensive (unless I hit a sore spot, for which I apologize). I was just pointion out another scenerio...what if our doctors order us to begin smoking. I've reached a rebellious stage with doctors (as noted in a different post), but some people would jump off a bridge if their doctor ordered it.

Here's a tip for the future: If you don't want to read my posts (I don't have a problem with that) feel free to click on my name and add to your ignore list.

 

[AVL1984]

Personally, VIJ, I don't have a problem with your posts. I do have a problem with threads going off on rabbit trails. No offense taken, just an attempt on my part to bring the posting back to a reasonable place of "regarding drinking". Clicking on your name and adding to the "ignore list" doesn't negate your posts anyhow...so...why the attitude, friend?

Here's a tip for the future...maybe two tips...if you want to take a thread off subject, start your own thread and notify others of the thread. Secondly, never assume anything.

T

 

[delly]

My ex-husband was an alcoholic. He didn't start drinking until he was in his late 30's and started running around with the younger guys he worked with. He had no history of alcoholism in his immediate family.

He would drink a six pack or two and then start abusing me and our son. He said drinking made him feel like a real man. I think it just brought out the "real man". It makes people do things that they don't have the courage to do when sober.

My husband could stop drinking for years at a time then start back again just on a whim. He would get mad at me about something and start again just to spite me. I was a lot younger than him and he didnt' like the idea of me telling him what he ought to do and not do. "Real men" do what they want to do, not what some woman wants.

I have to say that he didn't have to be drunk to abuse us, and often would start drinking if we had a disagreement. He was terribly jealous and overbearing because of my age.

We probably would have never had a good marriage even without the alcohol, but the alcohol made it a "living hell on earth".

To this day I cannot stand to be around anyone who is drinking or has been drinking. I can't stand the smell of it. It brings back so many bad memories that I just want to get away from the person who has it on his breath. My husband always said I could smell it a half mile away.

One never knows when they take that first drink whether they will end up addicted or not. It seems to me that so many would be better off if they had never taken that chance. It's a mood altering drug just as bad as heroin or cocaine. Mood altering drugs make you feel good for a little while, but then you come back to reality and your own bad self. If you don't like yourself or your reality, you need to change it without using drugs.

And that's where God comes in. God is the only thing we need to use to change ourselves and our reality. I depended on him to get me out of a life threatening situation and he gave me the courage to change it. He has helped me so many times to stay away from things that don't glorify him.

Too bad my husband never turned to God for help. He died drunk and alone. He was always saying that I thought I was too good to drink him him. I assured him that he was absolutely right. My body is the temple of God and he doesn't want me to be addicted to anything except him.

Dale

 

[webdog]

I find it humerous that there are those that say "no christian should drink". I would like the opinions of those with this view to share their view of Luke 7:33-35. Be honest.

 

[OCC]

Dale...sorry to hear about your husband.

I still believe it is ok to drink moderately but am aware of the possible side effects.

webdog, I was going to make a joke to go along with your post there but I couldn't do it after reading Dale's post.

 

[shannonL]

Webdog,

I don't see what is humorous about people's lives that have been ruined by dope and booze. I abstain as a matter of personal conviction. I believe overall the Scriptures as a whole teach abstinence. Your free to drink yourself into oblivion if that is your desire. It is between you and God. I just like to warn people of what can happen if you choose to drink. Doesnt' mean it will happen to you but it doesn't hurt to inform people.
Does the passage you mentioned mean that Jesus actually drank or does it mean that it was assumed that He drank because he hang out with people who did? I don't know. I havent searched it out enough yet. There you go a honest answer.

Now a honest answer from you. When you do drink what do you drink and how many? Do you catch a buzz? or do you get sloppy drunk? I want to know if its okay to drink how many drinks is permissible? Because be honest now drunkeness is a sin correct? If its okay for a christian to drink then can a christian smoke pot? Why or why not? Can a christian do cocaine? Why or why not. Booze just happens to be legal yet all the above affect people (in a sense) the same way. They all altar your thought processes, your moods etc...

If I were a christian in Amsterdam would it be cool for me to go into one of their "coffee houses" and smoke a doobie? Its legal there. Or should i smoke half a J. I know, for those that can handle it they can smoke a whole J. Some should just take a couple of tokes. Oh, if you were a christian in Amsterdam you wouldn't want to smoke pot in public it might be a stumbling block you could smoke it at home though using your private stash.

I'm gonna start a new thread seriously. Here it is:
If pot is legalized in america could a christian smoke it as long as it was done in moderation?

 

[OCC]

I myself have one glass of wine if I'm out at an Italian restaraunt.

 

[webdog]

Originally posted by shannonL:
Webdog,

I don't see what is humorous about people's lives that have been ruined by dope and booze. I abstain as a matter of personal conviction. I believe overall the Scriptures as a whole teach abstinence. Your free to drink yourself into oblivion if that is your desire. It is between you and God. I just like to warn people of what can happen if you choose to drink. Doesnt' mean it will happen to you but it doesn't hurt to inform people.
Does the passage you mentioned mean that Jesus actually drank or does it mean that it was assumed that He drank because he hang out with people who did? I don't know. I havent searched it out enough yet. There you go a honest answer.

Now a honest answer from you. When you do drink what do you drink and how many? Do you catch a buzz? or do you get sloppy drunk? I want to know if its okay to drink how many drinks is permissible? Because be honest now drunkeness is a sin correct? If its okay for a christian to drink then can a christian smoke pot? Why or why not? Can a christian do cocaine? Why or why not. Booze just happens to be legal yet all the above affect people (in a sense) the same way. They all altar your thought processes, your moods etc...

If I were a christian in Amsterdam would it be cool for me to go into one of their "coffee houses" and smoke a doobie? Its legal there. Or should i smoke half a J. I know, for those that can handle it they can smoke a whole J. Some should just take a couple of tokes. Oh, if you were a christian in Amsterdam you wouldn't want to smoke pot in public it might be a stumbling block you could smoke it at home though using your private stash.

I'm gonna start a new thread seriously. Here it is:
If pot is legalized in america could a christian smoke it as long as it was done in moderation?

First, what is humerous is exactly what I said, not someone's misfortunes, but the legalism of the phrase "christians shouldn't drink". You never did answer my question, instead you ranted about me drinking myself into oblivion. Answer the question. What is your opinion of Luke 7:33-35? Have you ever read it? You claim throughout the Bible abstinence is taught. Care to show where?

Drunkeness is a sin. Each person holds alcohol different. Someone could drink 2 beers and be drunk, someone else 10.

--If its okay for a christian to drink then can a christian smoke pot? Why or why not? Can a christian do cocaine? Why or why not. Booze just happens to be legal yet all the above affect people (in a sense) the same way. They all altar your thought processes, your moods etc...---

Aren't pot and cocaine illegal? Isn't breaking the law a sin? Is there anything else besides alcohol that "alters your thought processes and moods"? Do you drink coffee? Pop? Tea? Ever have surgery? How did you feel when you woke up? Was the drugs administered sinful, also? What about codeine and other pain meds? All sinful too?

Instead of being so judgemental, put your stock into the scriptures and not the teachings of men!