Regenerated/saved "through faith"

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

sbm: To say one is regenerated through Faith is False Teaching, neither does Eph 2:8-9 Teach that.

HP: Technically speaking, 'in a sense', you are correct. Faith itself is not meritorious in nature, neither is it the grounds of our salvation.

sbm: Mans Faith has absolutely nothing to do with New Birth, it is totally and Sovereignly a work of The Spirit of God ! Jn 3:8

HP: In this you are absolutely wrong. Again, we are NOT saved as you say 'by' our faith, but neither will anyone be saved 'apart from' our faith.

Faith is a condition of salvation, and as such is NOT thought of in any meritorious sense or context. Still, faith IS required by God from us, 'without which' it is impossible to please God. Faith, as well as all conditions of salvation, are ALWAYS thought of in the sense of 'not without which,' and never in the sense of 'that for the sake of.'

The ONLY grounds of salvation, and source or merit by which man is saved, is the grace and mercy of God via the shed blood of Christ.

 

[savedbymercy]

hp

HP: Technically speaking, 'in a sense', you are correct.

I know I am correct, whether you agree or not !

Faith itself is not meritorious in nature, neither is it the grounds of our salvation.

If one believes they are saved because of their faith or believing, then it becomes meritorius, I do not care what you say !

HP: In this you are absolutely wrong. Again, we are NOT saved as you say 'by' our faith, but neither will anyone be saved 'apart from' our faith.

Faith has nothing to do with New Birth. Until one is born again, they have no Faith, none that pleases God anyway !

Faith is a condition of salvation

Thats works salvation, condemned by God !

 

[percho]

No one that has posted thus far, has even attempted to deal with the evidence I presented and/or attempted to show how I have distorted or abused the text, context, grammar, etc.

SBM has done the usual cultic MO and RAN, jumped and pitted scripture against scripture - this is hermeneutics of all heretics and it characterizes every response he has to any exegetical based evidence presented against his position.

Actually my post agrees with your post except my understanding of the "through faith" And the regeneration and quickening is from this concept.

Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Paul will go on to show the Spirit was received out of hearing of faith. Where did the Spirit come from unto those who received the Spirit?

It was the receiving of the Spirit that puts us in the resurrected Jesus Christ. It was Jesus Christ who was regenerated from the dead and received the promise of the Holy Spirit which was then shed on those who received it.
The Spirit puts one in a Covenant relationship with Jesus Christ quickening them with Christ being in Christ and giving them assurance of life from the dead. So the faith was obedience unto death of the sinless one who was quickened by God the Father, Grace.

Speaking of the Holy Spirit Titus 3:6 Which he (God the Father) shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

Through means Jesus received it then it was given to us. Does it not?

Verse 5 by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Spirit;
To whom?

John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

The Spirit would not come until the seed of promise received the Spirit first.

Gal 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through the faith.

 

[percho]

I responded to you with 1 Corinthians 1:21;

1 Cor 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

Here is the relationship between faith and being saved. God has been pleased by the foolishness of preaching to save those who believe.

You must first believe the word of God before God saves you.

We are saved by God's grace, but it is through faith when we believe God's word. If you do not believe the preaching of God's word he will not save you.

Jhn 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

Unless you believe, you will die in your sins. It is impossible to be spiritually alive until you first believe.

How and Why on or about noon one day did Saul/Paul pass from unbelief unto belief and I will agree that at this time he did not have the Holy Spirit.
For I do not believe he received the Spirit for three days.

If anyone has an answer and BTW I do not, why did Saul/Paul remain blind for three days after Jesus called him?

 

[percho]

HP: Technically speaking, 'in a sense', you are correct. Faith itself is not meritorious in nature, neither is it the grounds of our salvation.




HP: In this you are absolutely wrong. Again, we are NOT saved as you say 'by' our faith, but neither will anyone be saved 'apart from' our faith.

Faith is a condition of salvation, and as such is NOT thought of in any meritorious sense or context. Still, faith IS required by God from us, 'without which' it is impossible to please God. Faith, as well as all conditions of salvation, are ALWAYS thought of in the sense of 'not without which,' and never in the sense of 'that for the sake of.'

The ONLY grounds of salvation, and source or merit by which man is saved, is the grace and mercy of God via the shed blood of Christ.

So what you are saying is that the analogy of spiritual birth to physical birth wasn't a very good one.

I say this for I do not think you had one iota of a thing to do with your physical birth, therefore bad analogy.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Percho, I had nothing to do with my physical birth, but Scripture plainly tells me that unless I obey and repent and believe, I will not be saved. Man's will is indeed involved in salvation, but again, NOTHING we do is meritorious in nature.

 

[The Biblicist]

You are twisting and distorting scripture so bad, its a shame before God !

What you are really saying is that you are incapable of responding to the evidence presented and so you are reduced to slandering the writer instead.

 

[The Biblicist]

I responded to you with 1 Corinthians 1:21;

1 Cor 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

Here is the relationship between faith and being saved. God has been pleased by the foolishness of preaching to save those who believe.

You must first believe the word of God before God saves you.

We are saved by God's grace, but it is through faith when we believe God's word. If you do not believe the preaching of God's word he will not save you.

Jhn 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

Unless you believe, you will die in your sins. It is impossible to be spiritually alive until you first believe.

Responding with RJP is admission of error not a responsible response to exposition. (R = run from the context; J = jump to another text; P = pit that text against the text in question).

 

[The Biblicist]

Percho, I had nothing to do with my physical birth.....

Gal. 1:15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother’s womb, and called me by his grace,
16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:

That is precisely why the new birth is compared to physical birth - you have nothing to do with either.

"When it pleased God" modifies both "separated me from my mother's womb AND called me by his Grace to reveal his Son in me"

In both cases it was entirely according to "WHEN" it pleased God not when it pleased Paul and in both cases God is the cause and not Paul. Paul had no more determination or ability to bring about either. Repentance and faith are but the human side experience of regeneration. Regeneration and Justification regeneration are simeltaneous actions but in a LOGICAL cause and consequence relationship.

 

[savedbymercy]

the bib

Regeneration and Justification regeneration are simeltaneous actions

Thats False, Justification before God occurred before the foundation, and it was evidenced in time first at the Resurrection of Christ. When Christ rose from the dead, it was because of the Justification of those whose offences He bare ! Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

And by that same Resurrected Life, they are Regenerated or born again 1 Pet 1:3

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

They are Justified by His Death, born again by His Life ! That is simple Biblical Truth, for you teach a False Gospel !

 

[savedbymercy]

What you are really saying is that you are incapable of responding to the evidence presented and so you are reduced to slandering the writer instead.

I am not going to unravel that twised pretzel of a mess , it is not worth it, for the Testimony of the Truth is clear from me here !

 

[The Biblicist]

I am not going to unravel that twised pretzel of a mess , it is not worth it, for the Testimony of the Truth is clear from me here !

You cannot deal with it because it is a rational accurate Biblical exposition of the text. If it were not, then anyone could with any ability could go into the text and point out where I abused the grammar or developmental argument which is so easily seen in this text.

Indeed, I have yet to see you deal exegetically or expositorily with any text of scripture. Your MO is the RJP method:

R = RUN from the text
J = JUMP to another text
P = PIT one scripture against another

 

[The Biblicist]

Eph. 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

What is the CONTEXTUAL meaning and usage of the term "saved" in the above verse?

1. Ask what the primary theme is in this context?

ANSWER: - Divine quickening - vv. 1, 5,

2. Ask what is the first use of the phrase "by grace are ye saved" in this context?

ANSWER: verse 5 as a description of divine quickening

3. Ask who is attributed this work and who is not in this context?

ANSWER: It is not attributed to men - "and that not of yourselves"

ANSWER: It is not attributed to works - "not of works"

ANSWER: It is attributed to God's creative work - "For we are His workmanship created in Christ Jesus"

ANSWER: It is not attributed to "good works" but "good works" are the consequence of being "saved through faith."


4. Now, how does the grammar affect the relationship between divine quickening/saved or God's creative act and faith?

ANSWER: Paul uses a paraphrastic perfect tense. εστε ("are") σεσωσμενοι ("saved")That is, he grammatically joins together a perfect tense participle and a present tense linking verb. The perfect participle states that the act of "saved" is a completed action that stands completed from its initial occurrence right up to the point when Paul penned these words. In other words, when the Ephesians had been regenerated by God that act of regeneration was at that point a completed act that stood completed right up to the time Paul penned these words.

At the point it was completed it was completed "THROUGH FAITH." If I have been saved "though you" then my salvation cannot be separated from "you." If I had been saved from a flood "through an ark" then my salvation could not be separated from the ark. The perfect tense demands it is a completed action in the past and that completed action was accomplished "through faith" as a creative act of God. It is not a question of which comes first but the fact they are inseparable within that completed action.

Neither regeneration or justifying faith are incomplete linear on going progressive actions but completed actions that stand complete due to GRACE not due to "yourselves" or due to "works" or "good works" but due to God's workmanship.

The same truth being taught here by Paul was taught by Christ in John 6:44-45; 64-65.

Drawing is the work of the Father, while coming to Christ is a description of faith or believing by the elect.

The same term translated "draw" is used when the disciples drew the net, the net was coming to them. Something that is being drawn is coming or else it is not being drawn. They are identical actions. Tie a rope to a stick and then draw it and see if coming is not an identical action with drawing.

Drawing is the regenerating work of God while coming is repentance and faith in the gospel. They are identical in action but distinct in cause and effect.


The same truth is taught by John in 1 John 5:1 where John uses the perfect tense verb "born" and the present tense participle "beleiveth." The action of the participle is grammatically identical with the action of the verb. If John would have used a future tense participle then the action of the participle would have been future from the action of the verb. Thus new birth would precede faith. If John would have used any completed action participle (Imperfect, Aorist, Perfect tense) it would have preceded the action of the verb. Thus faith would precede new birth. However, the present participle means the action of faith was present or identical action with the verb - new birth and faith occur simeltaneously together.

 

[savedbymercy]

You cannot deal with it because it is a rational accurate Biblical exposition of the text. If it were not, then anyone could with any ability could go into the text and point out where I abused the grammar or developmental argument which is so easily seen in this text.

Indeed, I have yet to see you deal exegetically or expositorily with any text of scripture. Your MO is the RJP method:

R = RUN from the text
J = JUMP to another text
P = PIT one scripture against another

You twist scripture to your own destruction.

 

[The Biblicist]

You twist scripture to your own destruction.

You are only advertising your own ignorance of the Scriptures and incompetence as a Biblical exegete. Now you are attempting to play the part of God, being jury and judge.

The truth is in the pudding! You practice RJP just as the cults do. Anyone who deals with the scriptures by the MO of RJP is proof they are either false teachers, misled and ignorant or both.

 

[savedbymercy]

You are only advertising your own ignorance of the Scriptures and incompetence as a Biblical exegete. Now you are attempting to play the part of God, being jury and judge.

The truth is in the pudding! You practice RJP just as the cults do. Anyone who deals with the scriptures by the MO of RJP is proof they are either false teachers, misled and ignorant or both.

You have done a terrible twist job. Not worth my time, but mans faith plays no part in being Regenerated, that is a False Gospel of works all day long !

 

[Moriah]

Gal. 1:15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother’s womb, and called me by his grace,
16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
That is precisely why the new birth is compared to physical birth - you have nothing to do with either.

Do you think you are the same as the Apostle Paul? Apostle Paul is an Apostle. He was one of the ones who laid the foundation with the Prophets, and with Jesus Christ as the Chief cornerstone. The plan for salvation was made before the beginning of the world. Do you not think that God had known who and why the Apostles would be?

"When it pleased God" modifies both "separated me from my mother's womb AND called me by his Grace to reveal his Son in me"

Paul was unnaturally born as a Christian. The other Apostles (except for of course Judas Iscariot) they were believers and followers of Jesus from the beginning. Paul was not. Why do you think Jesus had to appear before Paul and speak to him? Why did not Jesus do to Paul what you claim he does supernaturally to all those saved? The devil has misled you from the truth.

In both cases it was entirely according to "WHEN" it pleased God not when it pleased Paul and in both cases God is the cause and not Paul. Paul had no more determination or ability to bring about either.

Again, the Bible says Paul was an unnaturally born Christian. God gives us His Spirit when HE ACCEPTS US. AFTER we believe and obey.

Repentance and faith are but the human side experience of regeneration. Regeneration and Justification regeneration are simeltaneous actions but in a LOGICAL cause and consequence relationship.

You do not preach about the God of the Holy Bible. The message of the gospel is powerful, it is the message that saves, it is the Word of God revealed, it is in hearing the message that faith comes from. We do not understand why God tells us to do this and that, but after we obey, THEN God reveals to us.

 

[savedbymercy]

Paul was unnaturally born as a Christian.

Thats a lie, Paul was an example, he himself testifies to, of Christ coming to save sinners, that he is chief !

1 Tim 1:15

15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

 

[Moriah]

Thats a lie, Paul was an example, he himself testifies to, of Christ coming to save sinners, that he is chief !

I am not lying. You are the one who speaks lies.
1 Corinthians 15:8 and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.

Paul was unnaturally born. Paul was abnormally born. Now I hope you have great unrest for speaking so cruelly to true believers of God. I hope you have great unrest with your beliefs, and maybe you will repent. For now you have to wonder why Jesus did not just cause Paul to believe supernaturally, as you claim ALL come to believe, but instead Jesus appeared to Paul, which caused him to believe, because he was not a believer.

 

[savedbymercy]

I am not lying.

1 Tim 1:15

15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.