Regeneration and sanctification

[allinall]

Except you forget Ephesians 5:18 which I believe is the Christian way of Life. Be ye not drunk with wine wherein is excess but be ye filled with the Spirit.

We are indwelt and filled at the point of Salvation but when we sin we lose the filling (control) of the Holy Spirit. The control as Paul points out is lost when we let sin control our lives instead of the Spirit.

Ephesians 4: 4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Unity for us is seen in these 7 ones. The One Baptism that pulls us all together is the Baptisnm of the Holy Spirit.

The body of the church in under one Spirit (Holy spirit), One hope of our calling (to salvation) One Lord (Jesus), One Faith (Faith in Him), One Baptism (of the Holy Spirit) that brings us all together, One God and Fatrher of all.

Beautiful passage by Paul showing how God pulled it altogheter making us one with Him.

Nice post, Rev.

I like to think of it as being conformed to Christlikeness, which will only be completed in Glory. While we all may experience some ups and downs with this "conforming", as with the stock market, looking at the bigger context we should see a gradual steady climb upwards. Does that make sense?

My question then would be: Why isn't this filling also regeneration? It's certainly distinct from the baptism (with the Holy Spirit), and I understand pointing that distinction out by calling it sanctification, but at the same time it's a work of the Holy Spirit, not the flesh, which was pointed out to us in Galatians 3:2-3. In my mind, how could we call it anything alse but regeneration? Wouldn't the only other option be to say it's from the flesh?

Dave

 

[allinall]

The infilling of the Holy Spirit is a moment by moment "thing"
Basically, its allowing for Him to empower you, to live the life of Jesus in and thru you daily....

Sauntification is daily process where God molds you more into image of Christ, that you "put off" your old nature daily, and "put on" your new nature in Christ...

Can use Bible study/memorization/applications /prayer life witnessing all part of getting you more like Christ...

At moment of salvation, Holy Spirt comes to indwell us, and he never leaves, sealing yus until day God redeems fully at Seconfd Coming of Christ..

THAT is permenant one time event, BUT the infilling is making the choice to allow HIm to empower and enable us to live for God...

Really, that is ONLY way we can live for God, as w/o the Holy Spirit empowering us, all we have left to fall back upon is sinful flesh!

Another good post. In light of these things you have written in your post, which I agree with, what do you think about my question to rev in my previous post?

Dave

 

[JesusFan]

Nice post, Rev.

I like to think of it as being conformed to Christlikeness, which will only be completed in Glory. While we all may experience some ups and downs with this "conforming", as with the stock market, looking at the bigger context we should see a gradual steady climb upwards. Does that make sense?

My question then would be: Why isn't this filling also regeneration? It's certainly distinct from the baptism (with the Holy Spirit), and I understand pointing that distinction out by calling it sanctification, but at the same time it's a work of the Holy Spirit, not the flesh, which was pointed out to us in Galatians 3:2-3. In my mind, how could we call it anything alse but regeneration? Wouldn't the only other option be to say it's from the flesh?

Dave

Regeneration is a one time event , when after excercising faith in the Lord Jesus, the Lord sends His Holy Spirit into you, granting you a "new heart/mind of Christ" that is when you receive indwelling of Holy Spirit, now a baby/new born Christian...

Sauntification is the life long process by which you are being comfirmed more into "image of Christ"

Not regeneration, that is done at conversion point, but Holy Spirit working out you being more like Christ, or as John the Baptist said about Jesus "I MUST decrease and He MUST increase!"

 

[revmwc]

Nice post, Rev.

I like to think of it as being conformed to Christlikeness, which will only be completed in Glory. While we all may experience some ups and downs with this "conforming", as with the stock market, looking at the bigger context we should see a gradual steady climb upwards. Does that make sense?

My question then would be: Why isn't this filling also regeneration? It's certainly distinct from the baptism (with the Holy Spirit), and I understand pointing that distinction out by calling it sanctification, but at the same time it's a work of the Holy Spirit, not the flesh, which was pointed out to us in Galatians 3:2-3. In my mind, how could we call it anything alse but regeneration? Wouldn't the only other option be to say it's from the flesh?

Dave

The filling or means control, regenration means a new life, you were seperated from God in death Spiritual Death, but are now regenerated to new Life in Chirst. So regenration is a permanet occurance, like the indwelling of the Spirit. He comes in and you now have him living in you and your Human spirit and Holy Spirit work together in your Spiritual life.

Romans 8:
15For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

16The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

17And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.


Verse 16 the Holy Spirit bears witness with our (human) Spirit that we are the Children of God, that is proof of regeneration.

 

[percho]

The filling or means control, regenration means a new life, you were seperated from God in death Spiritual Death, but are now regenerated to new Life in Chirst. So regenration is a permanet occurance, like the indwelling of the Spirit. He comes in and you now have him living in you and your Human spirit and Holy Spirit work together in your Spiritual life.

Romans 8:
15For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

16The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

17And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.


Verse 16 the Holy Spirit bears witness with our (human) Spirit that we are the Children of God, that is proof of regeneration.

A. Is having the Spirit of adoption different from the adoption to wit?
B. Is being sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, which is the earnest of
of out inheritance the same as actually inheriting the promise?
C. Does having received the Spirit of adoption only make one an heir?
D. When will the heirs become inheritors?
E. Would you not say that being born into or entering something is best
described as an heir or as an inheritor?
F. When will be the manifestation of the sons of God that is associated
with groans and travailing in pains (birth terms) even we
(Christians) groan within themselves waiting for?
G. When Mary was conceived of God by the Holy Spirit would that child
growing within her be construed as the only begotten of the Father
and be the son of God?

Seven questions.

 

[revmwc]

A. Is having the Spirit of adoption different from the adoption to wit?
B. Is being sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, which is the earnest of
of out inheritance the same as actually inheriting the promise?
C. Does having received the Spirit of adoption only make one an heir?
D. When will the heirs become inheritors?
E. Would you not say that being born into or entering something is best
described as an heir or as an inheritor?
F. When will be the manifestation of the sons of God that is associated
with groans and travailing in pains (birth terms) even we
(Christians) groan within themselves waiting for?
G. When Mary was conceived of God by the Holy Spirit would that child
growing within her be construed as the only begotten of the Father
and be the son of God?

Seven questions.

A. Is having the Spirit of adoption different from the adoption to wit?
Verse 16 of Romans 8 gives the answer The Holy Spirit bears witness with our human Spirit that we are the sons of God. Verse 15 says we have been adopted and the Spirit is the proof of it.

B. Is being sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, which is the earnest of
of out inheritance the same as actually inheriting the promise?
The sealing of the Spirit is like an earnest money contract earnest of our inheritance), God places in us the indwelling Holy Spirit as the down payment or as the earnest money if you will to show His good faith of completing our entire inheritance as sons. As proof that we will be made complete for eternity. Complete Salvation of body, soul and spirit in a new form like unto Christ resurrected Body.

C. Does having received the Spirit of adoption only make one an heir?
We are heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ. It makes us full fledge Children of God.

D. When will the heirs become inheritors?
At the Rapture, when Christ returns for His Bride the church. We will receive a new resurrected body which will be complete with soul and spirit.

E. Would you not say that being born into or entering something is best
described as an heir or as an inheritor?
We are Born into earthly families but that doesn’t make us inheritors of anything but the name. We enter into Christ being born again not physically but our spirit is re-generated to new life. No not being separated from fellowship and understanding of Spiritual things we have inherited the things of the Spirit of God. We now have Spiritual discernment because we have been regenerated made alive Spiritually.

F. When will be the manifestation of the sons of God that is associated
with groans and travailing in pains (birth terms) even we
(Christians) groan within themselves waiting for?
Romans 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
When the rapture occurs and our body is fully redeemed never to see corruption either again or ever.

G. When Mary was conceived of God by the Holy Spirit would that child
growing within her be construed as the only begotten of the Father
and be the son of God? Yes fully God and fully human with the exception that he would not inherit the Old Sin Nature. The Old Sin Nature is inherited from the father (Adam) because Adam willfully sinned while Eve was deceived. 1Timothy 2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Since Adam was not deceived everything about sin and the fall come from him that and because he was created first and the head of the family. Inheritance comes from him for physical things. Inheritance of Spiritual comes from God.

 

[allinall]

Generally speaking, I see an initial -and- a subsequent work of God in the believer's life (this excludes the prefaith regeneration, which is unique unto itself). They differ only in that the initial lays the foundation, that is our being placed into the Body of Christ by faith, thus we are born again "in Christ", and the latter continues the work to finish it. Sanctification is still all a work of the Holy Spirit. To finish the picture, I'll even take it a step further and go back to where it all started for each of us. We have a pre faith regeneration even before we are born again. It's a work done by the Holy Spirit in us before He even indwells. It's very similar to what the OT relationship between man and the Holy Spirit was before Pentecost. This is what draws us to God.

Here's what Calvin said, just so nobody thinks that I'm itroducing strange "new" doctrines......(BTW, we should not exclude the 'change of mind' from the act, therefore, I believe, "repentance" here is meant to also include a prefaith regeneration.)


Therefore, in a word, I interpret repentance as regeneration, whose sole end is to restore in us the image of God . . . And indeed this restoration does not take place in one moment or one day or one year; but through continual and even slow advances God wipes out in his elect the corruption of the flesh . . . In order to reach this goal, God assigns to them a race of repentance, which they are to run throughout their lives Calvin (601-02).

In fact...read this...

The Meaning of “Regeneration” (16th Century)
Posted on 16. Oct, 2009 by Mark Jones in Book Reviews

Translating Latin works from the sixteenth century Protestant scholastics will prove to be invaluable to Reformed Christians (I’m toying with the idea of translating a work, perhaps Heidegger or Polanus). Translations into English will help us to better understand the growth and development of Reformed theology and the different ways terms were used over the centuries. “Regeneration” has a fairly tricky history, and our ideas of what the term means today may not in fact reflect the way sixteenth and seventeenth-century theologians used the term. It appears that the term was narrowed in meaning during the debates between the Remonstrants and the Gomarists. There’s a big debate going on right now in the Netherlands concerning whether Arminius was Reformed or not, especially with the recent publication of William den Boer’s work on Arminius. Many of the questions at my promotion had to do with Arminius and why I believed he was not Reformed. A lot can be said on this matter, but one of the problems was that Arminius agreed with Calvin’s use of the word “regeneration”. (I’m not convinced he could agree entirely, however).

Amandus Polanus’ (1561-1610) work called The Substance of Christian Religion is a practical body of divinity. Regarding the term “regeneration” Polanus writes the following:

“Regeneration is a benefit of God, by which our corrupted nature is renewed to the image of God by the Holy Spirit …. That same is also called sanctification and the gift of grace. Also of schoolmen it is called infused grace … Regeneration is either begun or perfected” (103).

As I alluded to above, Calvin certainly understood regeneration to signify more than an aspect of the ordo salutis. For him, it incorporated many aspects of the whole Christian life (Institutes, III.iii.9). Hodge remarked that “Calvin gives the term its widest scope” (Systematic Theology, 3.3). Calvin affirms that the Spirit makes alive what was once dead: “[The Spirit] regenerates us and makes us to be new creatures” (Institutes, II.ii.27). But he was not content with such a narrow view of the doctrine. Before Polanus, Calvin argues that regeneration is akin to sanctification insofar as “it is a renewal of the divine image in us” (III.xvii.5).

There is also a good deal of evidence that the early English Puritans had a very elastic view of regeneration. Perkins, for example, understood John 3:5 to incorporate sanctification (Foundation of Christian Religion, 278).

Maccovius spends a good deal of time on regeneration in his work on theological and philosophical distinctions and rules. He does not abandon Calvin’s use of the term, but he makes finer distinctions relative to the Remonstrant and counter-Remonstrant debates. For example, Maccovius writes:

Regeneratio aliter se habet ratione primi moment, aliter ratione progressus (In respect of its first moment regeneration comes about in another way than in respect of its progression). Ratione primi moment homo se habet mere passive, ratione progressus cooperatur cum Deo (Regarding the first moment of regeneration man is purely passive; regarding its progression man cooperates with God).

Elsewhere he argues:

Regenerationis gradus dantur in hac vita, non tatntum in se, verum etiam in subjectis (In this life regeneration is by degrees: these degrees do not only concern regeneration by itself but also the subjects). Magis regignitur unus quam alter, hinc magis adulti quam infantes (Some people are more regenerate than others; hence older prople are more regenerated than the young ones).

Notice, then, that Maccovius uses, like Calvin and Polanus, the term “regeneration” to include what we now call sanctification. Incidentally, Maccovius viewed Paul as “regenerate” in Romans 7. Indeed, he had to since the turning point for Arminius, I believe, was when he began his lectures in Romans 7 and decided that Romans 7 described Paul in his unconverted state. Many think Arminius went wrong at Romans 9 – he did, of course – but his problem started earlier!

* On Maccovius’ distinctiones see “Scholastic Discourse” (Instituut voor Reformatieonderzoek), pp. 239ff.

http://www.meetthepuritans.com/2009/10/16/the-meaning-of-regeneration-16th-century/

Dave

 

[percho]

Generally speaking, I see an initial -and- a subsequent work of God in the believer's life (this excludes the prefaith regeneration, which is unique unto itself). They differ only in that the initial lays the foundation, that is our being placed into the Body of Christ by faith, thus we are born again "in Christ", and the latter continues the work to finish it. Sanctification is still all a work of the Holy Spirit. To finish the picture, I'll even take it a step further and go back to where it all started for each of us. We have a pre faith regeneration even before we are born again. It's a work done by the Holy Spirit in us before He even indwells. It's very similar to what the OT relationship between man and the Holy Spirit was before Pentecost. This is what draws us to God.

Here's what Calvin said, just so nobody thinks that I'm itroducing strange "new" doctrines......(BTW, we should not exclude the 'change of mind' from the act, therefore, I believe, "repentance" here is meant to also include a prefaith regeneration.)


Therefore, in a word, I interpret repentance as regeneration, whose sole end is to restore in us the image of God . . . And indeed this restoration does not take place in one moment or one day or one year; but through continual and even slow advances God wipes out in his elect the corruption of the flesh . . . In order to reach this goal, God assigns to them a race of repentance, which they are to run throughout their lives Calvin (601-02).

In fact...read this...


http://www.meetthepuritans.com/2009/10/16/the-meaning-of-regeneration-16th-century/

Dave

Let me ask both of you and anyone else that reads the thread.

When we are raised from the dead, in his resurrected image, at the return of Christ will we be less than, the exact same as or a much better man / new creature than the first man Adam was created?

Remember Adam was made a little lower than the angels, as are all men.
Remember also that the Word made flesh Jesus was made a little lower than the angels. The Christ came in the flesh, just as we are, lived just as we do, was tempted just as we are, Yet Without Sin. However being sinless I mean not one little bitty fib, he died for all of mankind. He was the last Adam. He Jesus the Christ died, the person that wept, that loved, that walked and talked, that person died. That person that was dead was buried the Christ, Christ the person rose again the third day, his soul was not left in hell. It was Christ that was seen after this not just the body of Christ. It's people that are dead in Christ not bodies. Jesus was buried as the Word made flesh.
The last Adam when he was resurrected he was a new kind of creature in whose image we also can be resurrected.

Rev. The spirit of adoption begets adoption an earnest.
The earnest of inheritance begets inheritance.
You said something about a child might inherit well a name at birth. What do you think this passage is speaking of?
Hebrews 1:4,5 he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

What day was this? What name was he called that day?

 

[Luke2427]

regeneration from the greek "paligge" re-creation or as it is found only twice in scripture as regeneration. Matthew 19:28 and Titus 3:5.

We become re-created by faith. We were dead in sin and our human spirit came alive and was regenerated or re-created because of faith. Faith must come first for with out faith

5Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Romans 3:22Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference

Righteousness is not imputed until Faith has taken place.

Hebrews 11:
6But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

7By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

Because of Faith Noah and the other seven were saved, faith came before righteousness was imputed just as faith comes before regeneration. Every part of salvation comes through faith but everything is so close but all aspects of salvation are driven by FAITH.

None of those verses say anything at all about faith PRECEDING regeneration. They don't address a chronology at all.

I John 5:1 does say that being born again PRECEDES faith.

Furthermore the Bible is clear that the natural man CANNOT receive the things of the Spirit of God.

He has to become something more than natural before he can receive the things of the Spirit of God.

That only happens by regeneration.

 

[TomVols]

IMO, the Calvinist has taken this word "death" defined it as lifelessness and built a false doctrine around a word that they have wrongly defined. Death is separation, not lifelessness.

Is the phrase "false doctrine" really helpful or necessary? Obviously, if you disagree with a doctrine, you obviously believe it is not correctly interpreted. However, this just appears a bit too strong for my tastes. I don't think Arminianism should be called a false doctrine, merely a misinterpretation.

Maybe I'm reading too much into your usage of the phrase. I hope I am.

 

[DHK]

Is the phrase "false doctrine" really helpful or necessary? Obviously, if you disagree with a doctrine, you obviously believe it is not correctly interpreted. However, this just appears a bit too strong for my tastes. I don't think Arminianism should be called a false doctrine, merely a misinterpretation.

Maybe I'm reading too much into your usage of the phrase. I hope I am.

IMO, Tom it is "a doctrine that is not in agreement with what the Bible teaches," which is what I could have said instead. That is my personal belief about the matter. At least I didn't say "heresy."

 

[TomVols]

IMO, Tom it is "a doctrine that is not in agreement with what the Bible teaches," which is what I could have said instead. That is my personal belief about the matter. At least I didn't say "heresy."

:laugh:

True.

I still wish "false doctrine" hadn't come off your keyboard.

I am much more warm and fuzzy about you saying it's not in agreement with what the Bible teaches. That softens the blow a bit and is much more charitable.

All you forgot to do was substitute the word "incorrect" for the word "personal" in your next to last sentence :laugh:

Kidding, friend. :thumbs:

 

[Luke2427]

IMO, Tom it is "a doctrine that is not in agreement with what the Bible teaches," which is what I could have said instead. That is my personal belief about the matter. At least I didn't say "heresy."

For once...

I also noticed you avoided calling someone's God a "monster" as I seem to recall you doing before.

 

[savedbymercy]

Concerning sanctification, there is a Sanctification of the Father before there is a call in time according to Jude 1:1

1Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:

This is perhaps equivalent to that sanctification spoken of in Jer 1:5

5Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

There is also a sanctification of all for whom Christ died simply by His one offering Heb 10:10

10By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

The word sanctified here in the greek is in the perfect tense ! It is " we have been sanctified" by His once and for all offering of His body. This is not subjective sanctification or experiential, but it ensures it.