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Regeneration
- Thread starter Van
- Start date
Pitchback
Yet another post without a shred of biblical support. I have referenced verses that say we are made alive together with Christ. No Calvinist can point to some other verse that says we are made alive separated from Christ. So they ignore Ephesians 2:5 and assert the opposite.
John 1:12-13 clearly says after we believe, then we are given the right to become children of God. Therefore we believe before we become children of God. A before B, Faith before being born anew, regenerated, made alive as a child of God. No Calvinist can point to some other verse that says we are regenerated before we believe, or regenerated at the same time we believe. So they ignore John 1:12-13 and assert the opposite.
Think of it this way, can a person be regenerated without being made alive. Can a person be born anew and yet is not born as a spiritual child of God. Can a person be regenerated yet not born anew, made alive or becoming a child of God. Yes is the claim of Calvinism, the secret phantom regeneration invented by men to pour Calvinism into the text that actually denies it everywhere we look!
maybe because , per the bible, We are regenerated/place faith in same process, as God grants us what is needed in order for us to be saved?
Yet another post without a shred of biblical support. I have referenced verses that say we are made alive together with Christ. No Calvinist can point to some other verse that says we are made alive separated from Christ. So they ignore Ephesians 2:5 and assert the opposite.
John 1:12-13 clearly says after we believe, then we are given the right to become children of God. Therefore we believe before we become children of God. A before B, Faith before being born anew, regenerated, made alive as a child of God. No Calvinist can point to some other verse that says we are regenerated before we believe, or regenerated at the same time we believe. So they ignore John 1:12-13 and assert the opposite.
Think of it this way, can a person be regenerated without being made alive. Can a person be born anew and yet is not born as a spiritual child of God. Can a person be regenerated yet not born anew, made alive or becoming a child of God. Yes is the claim of Calvinism, the secret phantom regeneration invented by men to pour Calvinism into the text that actually denies it everywhere we look!
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Yet another post without a shred of biblical support. I have referenced verses that say we are made alive together with Christ. No Calvinist can point to some other verse that says we are made alive separated from Christ. So they ignore Ephesians 2:5 and assert the opposite.
John 1:12-13 clearly says after we believe, then we are given the right to become children of God. Therefore we believe before we become children of God. A before B, Faith before being born anew, regenerated, made alive as a child of God. No Calvinist can point to some other verse that says we are regenerated before we believe, or regenerated at the same time we believe. So they ignore John 1:12-13 and assert the opposite.
Think of it this way, can a person be regenerated without being made alive. Can a person be born anew and yet is not born as a spiritual child of God. Can a person be regenerated yet not born anew, made alive or becoming a child of God. Yes is the claim of Calvinism, the secret phantom regeneration invented by men to pour Calvinism into the text that actually denies it everywhere we look!
How can one spiritually dead in their sin nature and sins before God hear and believe?
SOMETHING happened to make the corpse alive enough to place faith in christ, its called regeneration!
I hold to the Bible teaching that BOTH happen at same time, in the salvation process, as the holy spirit moves on us to become alive enough to believe while we hear the Gospel, and right than we beive in jesus and are saved!
How can one spiritually dead in their sin nature and sins before God hear and believe?
SOMETHING happened to make the corpse alive enough to place faith in christ, its called regeneration!
I hold to the Bible teaching that BOTH happen at same time, in the salvation process, as the holy spirit moves on us to become alive enough to believe while we hear the Gospel, and right than we beive in jesus and are saved!
To be spiritually dead is to be separated from God, to be made alive spiritually is to be united with God. You define being spiritually dead as equally total spiritual inability, but that is simply your unbiblical assertion, devoid of any biblical support. Why did God harden the hearts of the unbelieving Jews in Romans 11? You have no answer, because if being spiritually dead really meant what you falsely claim, God would have not hardened them, they would have been incapable from birth to respond to the gospel.
To be spiritually dead is to be separated from God, to be made alive spiritually is to be united with God. You define being spiritually dead as equally total spiritual inability, but that is simply your unbiblical assertion, devoid of any biblical support. Why did God harden the hearts of the unbelieving Jews in Romans 11? You have no answer, because if being spiritually dead really meant what you falsely claim, God would have not hardened them, they would have been incapable from birth to respond to the gospel.
Romans 6:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Doesn't that mean all are spiritually dead until?
Romans 5:8-10 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Doesn't those verses state that the death/blood of Jesus Christ removed the sin that caused the us and we from being spiritually dead?
Now what separates the we and us from them? Do them become we and us because of their will to believe or do they become believers because they are called by God, the called according to purpose?
John 17:6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. 22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
1 Peter 1:20,21 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
The issue is not that the lost are spiritually dead, the issue is whether being spiritually dead means a lost separated from God person cannot seek God. Matthew 13:1-30 clearly says yes, spiritually dead people can seek God, and so the Calvinist definitional argument is bogus. Scripture does not say no one seeks God at any time, it simply says no one seeks God and leaves the scope (extent) of the statement to be discerned from other passages of scripture. Calvinists say its scope is "at any time" but since that creates conflict with Matthew 13, it is a bogus interpretation.
To be spiritually dead is to be separated from God, to be made alive spiritually is to be united with God. You define being spiritually dead as equally total spiritual inability, but that is simply your unbiblical assertion, devoid of any biblical support. Why did God harden the hearts of the unbelieving Jews in Romans 11? You have no answer, because if being spiritually dead really meant what you falsely claim, God would have not hardened them, they would have been incapable from birth to respond to the gospel.
Do you deny that God complete the hardening of already hard herated pharoah then?
Do you deny that God complete the hardening of already hard herated pharoah then?
Calvinists have no answers so they run and hide by asking yet another question concerning another passage and do not address the passage they brought up before.
If the Pharaoh would have for sure responded as God desired, God would not have hardened his heart, but God made sure he would ignore the spiritual warning given by Moses. So what little spiritual ability Pharaoh had, and it was less than when he started out in life because he had hardened his heart already, was taken away by God for His purpose.
So this OT account simply provides more evidence, like Romans 11, that Total Spiritual Inability is false doctrine.
Not to rub it in, but just how did Pharaoh harden his own heart, for according to Total Spiritual Inability there would be nothing to take away.
The more you actually study Calvinism, the more it falls apart under the light of scripture.
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Regeneration refers to being originated again, which is to be born anew, a new creation, no longer spiritually dead, but made alive. This conversion occurs when the Holy Spirit baptizes us spiritually into Christ, the sanctifying work of the Spirit, 1 Peter 1:2.
No one was regenerated before Christ died on the cross, because regeneration occurs through the resurrection of Christ. Therefore all the OT saints that gained approval through faith, Hebrews chapter 11, had not been regenerated or made perfect. They had not yet experienced the washing of regeneration until Christ died on the cross.
Our spiritual regeneration includes being made alive, undergoing the circumcision of Christ, and arising in Christ a new creation, hence born anew from above by the will of God. As a new creation we are a spiritual child of God and thus an heir to eternal life, and we have the Spirit of Adoption within us as a pledge to our physical resurrection at Christ's second coming.
No one was regenerated before Christ died on the cross, because regeneration occurs through the resurrection of Christ. Therefore all the OT saints that gained approval through faith, Hebrews chapter 11, had not been regenerated or made perfect. They had not yet experienced the washing of regeneration until Christ died on the cross.
Our spiritual regeneration includes being made alive, undergoing the circumcision of Christ, and arising in Christ a new creation, hence born anew from above by the will of God. As a new creation we are a spiritual child of God and thus an heir to eternal life, and we have the Spirit of Adoption within us as a pledge to our physical resurrection at Christ's second coming.