relapse?

[HAMel]

12Strings, unless one is caught up in the addiction of kinky s-e-x the looking twice at a pretty young heifer in her mini-skirt and bubbling over the top of her blouse, is hardly the same as being addicted to alcohol. But then again, it certainly can be.

Yes, it's all sinful and contrary to the way our Lord desires we live as Christians. However, an addiction can and will continue to plague any Christian so long as they live depending on the severity of the addiction. A chemical addiction must rank at the top of the list. As I'm sure you are aware of, there are Preachers and Pastors out there fighting an addiction battle daily.

When we get right down to brass tacks, all of us who post on this forum are addicted to something..., if we will only admit it. Just admit it to yourself.

Yes, I've an addiction but find that with the help of the Lord I can steer clear of the enticement. At my age (66) I have become so much more wiser and on more solid ground that perhaps one who is 25 and battling a curse. I can understand now more so than in my younger days as the Lord has opened my eyes to better understanding.

If one says they are without sin they are a liar and the truth is not in them. Could "sin" then, all "sin" be ranked as an addiction of one sort or another? I think so.

 

[freeatlast]

Despite my previous post, I do not generally think of sins in terms of levels of sins. I would say all sins are sins before God, those we consider big or small. But Different sins in scriptures seem to have different consequences and be treated differently.

That said, I would ask FAL a follow-up question:
-Can a true Christian, for a moment, hate his brother, then immediatly repent of it?
-Can a true Chrisitian, in a moment of anger, Kill his brother, then immediatly repent of it?

Niether of those is would be "practicing" sin, would they? Would you make any distinction in the type of sin?

(I would say both are possible, but the second is much less likely and would lead to much more legitimate questions about the persons' salvation, as it would probalby reveal that there HAS been a lifelong pattern of anger and hate; which MAY reveal that the person does not know the mercy of Christ.)

A Christian has the ability to do any sin in any given moment except one. Types of sin make no difference. The only sin impossible for a Christian is the blasphemy of the Spirit. Also no believer can practice sin.
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit (practice) sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot (practice) sin, because he is born of God.

In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not (practice) righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

Christians practice righteousness. It is a daily practice (*lifestyle) with an occasional sin. It is not the practice (daily lifestyle) of a believer to sin.

 

[convicted1]

David was an unrepentant murderer/adulterer who took a year to "break down" and confess those sins to the Lord...

was he really saved, or lost during that time, as he was practicing/harboring sins in his life!

David never had the Spirit dwelling within him. To compare OT to NT is "iffy", considering the Spirit never permanently indewlt people until Jesus breathed the Spirit into them in John 20:22.

 

[JesusFan]

I am not trying to be smart here, just clear. Sounds like you have found an excuse to reject
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit (practice) sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot (practice) sin, because he is born of God.

Think about what you are doing.

You keep banging hard on that one pet verse, are you aware that due to thecontex of the book, and the Greek grammer employed by Apostle John, cannot hold to the view of confession that you would see in 1 John 1, nor hold that it is impossible for Christians to practice sin for a reason as you would hold to?

 

[freeatlast]

Once we have been saved by Grace of God, than up to Him to keep us until day we are fully redeemed by jesus, as when we receive our glorified bodies, full removed from both the presense/power of sin!

galatians 5 has the Apostle paul stating clearly that while here on earth, after salvation, still have a sin nature to deal with as a saint...

IF we yield to the flesh, can and do sin, yield to HS produces fruit...

Christians free to chose to sin or not, and if we willfully sin against God, John commands to confess to God and get cleansed, while Hebrews asks us to lay down/put aside besitting sins that hinder our running, so saints can get into seasons of sin still!

No believer has a sin nature and no believer practices sin.

 

[freeatlast]

Fal point on this though seems to be ignoring the human condition that even spirit filled/saved saints can freely and willfully choose to sin still, NOT what God wants, nor can do with chaistasment from the Lord, but can even fall into an addiction IF allowing satan a foot hold into ones life!

Also has weird non biblical views on confession/repentence of the saints!

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit (practice) sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot (practice) sin, because he is born of God.

 

[freeatlast]

David was an unrepentant murderer/adulterer who took a year to "break down" and confess those sins to the Lord...

was he really saved, or lost during that time, as he was practicing/harboring sins in his life!

David did adultery only one time not over and over for months, weeks or even days. He murdered one man not several men over and over. David did not practice sin.
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit (practice) sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot (practice) sin, because he is born of God.

 

[freeatlast]

You keep banging hard on that one pet verse, are you aware that due to thecontex of the book, and the Greek grammer employed by Apostle John, cannot hold to the view of confession that you would see in 1 John 1, nor hold that it is impossible for Christians to practice sin for a reason as you would hold to?

I don't know what you mean but I do know you are wrong. :laugh:

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit (practice) sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot (practice) sin, because he is born of God.

 

[freeatlast]

David never had the Spirit dwelling within him. To compare OT to NT is "iffy", considering the Spirit never permanently indewlt people until Jesus breathed the Spirit into them in John 20:22.

That too is a consideration but David was not doing adultery day after day. It was a one time thing. He never practiced sin.

 

[convicted1]

That too is a consideration but David was not doing adultery day after day. It was a one time thing. He never practiced sin.

That is correct...

 

[12strings]

I am not trying to be smart here, just clear. Sounds like you have found an excuse to reject
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit (practice) sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot (practice) sin, because he is born of God.

Think about what you are doing.

I simply think that the exact definition of "practice" in that verse is not clear, since the end of the verse does say "he cannot sin" (you inserted practice there). Since it obviously does not mean he cannot ever sin, I think the exact application of this verse is difficult.

Just to clarify what you are saying: Reading the OP, knowing nothing else, is you position:

1. He definitely was not saved, but may be now if his repentance is real?
2. He most likely was not saved, but may be now if his repentance is real...we cannot know for sure?

 

[JesusFan]

That is correct...

Actually, IF David did not confess and repent of that sin before the Lord, he was engaged in ongoing "practice of adultery!"

 

[Amy.G]

David did adultery only one time not over and over for months, weeks or even days. He murdered one man not several men over and over. David did not practice sin.
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit (practice) sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot (practice) sin, because he is born of God.

Actually David committed several sins leading up to adultery and afterward. First, it was spring and instead of going out with the troops for battle, he stayed home alone. During this time is when he stared at Bathsheba while she was bathing. He obviously lusted after her and it got the best of him until he had her brought to him for the purpose of having s*x with her. Then afterward he committed even more sin by not taking responsibility for his actions and getting her pregnant, plotting the death of her husband (premeditated btw) and having him killed to save his own skin. On top of all that, he was totally unrepentant for one whole year until Nathan, through the power of God was able to reveal his sins to him. This was way more than just one sin of adultery. Yet God said that David was a man after His own heart. God's people can and do commit terrible sins and yet God still holds them in His hand and chastises them until they repent and come back into a right relationship with Him.

Is this not what the parable of the prodigal son teaches? If not, then the only conclusion is that we go in and out of salvation, which is not what the bible teaches.

 

[JesusFan]

David never had the Spirit dwelling within him. To compare OT to NT is "iffy", considering the Spirit never permanently indewlt people until Jesus breathed the Spirit into them in John 20:22.

But as the King of Isreal, david DID have the HS annoiting him for that specif role/position, remember that he was scared to death that God would take His HS from him!

 

[freeatlast]

I simply think that the exact definition of "practice" in that verse is not clear, since the end of the verse does say "he cannot sin" (you inserted practice there). Since it obviously does not mean he cannot ever sin, I think the exact application of this verse is difficult.

Just to clarify what you are saying: Reading the OP, knowing nothing else, is you position:

1. He definitely was not saved, but may be now if his repentance is real?
2. He most likely was not saved, but may be now if his repentance is real...we cannot know for sure?

If the term practice cannot be understood then it is a waste of good paper and John was just spinning his wheels. The inference is in the Greek and it is understandable. The fact is it can be understood, but many reject what it means for their own doctrine. Dump the false doctrine of backsliding and then the biblical teaching will be understood. It is a narrow gate and a straight path, not a broad gate and a stock market graph walk.

The last two questions you gave I have already answered the only way they can be answered as there is not enough information in the OP. I refer you to post #4

 

[freeatlast]

Actually David committed several sins leading up to adultery and afterward. First, it was spring and instead of going out with the troops for battle, he stayed home alone. During this time is when he stared at Bathsheba while she was bathing. He obviously lusted after her and it got the best of him until he had her brought to him for the purpose of having s*x with her. Then afterward he committed even more sin by not taking responsibility for his actions and getting her pregnant, plotting the death of her husband (premeditated btw) and having him killed to save his own skin. On top of all that, he was totally unrepentant for one whole year until Nathan, through the power of God was able to reveal his sins to him. This was way more than just one sin of adultery. Yet God said that David was a man after His own heart. God's people can and do commit terrible sins and yet God still holds them in His hand and chastises them until they repent and come back into a right relationship with Him.

Is this not what the parable of the prodigal son teaches? If not, then the only conclusion is that we go in and out of salvation, which is not what the bible teaches.

The point is those things were not his practice. David did not practice sin! No Christian practices sin.
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit (practice) sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot (practice) sin, because he is born of God.

 

[12strings]

That too is a consideration but David was not doing adultery day after day. It was a one time thing. He never practiced sin.

I think you are forgetting that David committed adultery, then schemed to bring Urriah home so he would sleep with his wife and cover it up. Then sent Urriah back to the battlefield to be killed, then took bathsheba into his own house and continued in unrepentance untill confronted. I was not a "practice" of one kind of sin, but a pattern of different sins that must have at the very least taken several weeks, probalby longer, to play out.

 

[12strings]

If the term practice cannot be understood then it is a waste of good paper and John was just spinning his wheels. The inference is in the Greek and it is understandable. The fact is it can be understood, but many reject what it means for their own doctrine. Dump the false doctrine of backsliding and then the biblical teaching will be understood. It is a narrow gate and a straight path, not a broad gate and a stock market graph walk.

The last two questions you gave I have already answered the only way they can be answered as there is not enough information in the OP. I refer you to post #4

So it sounds like you are saying the fictional person in the OP might have been saved for those 20 years, but probably not, but we can't know for sure?

 

[JesusFan]

If the term practice cannot be understood then it is a waste of good paper and John was just spinning his wheels. The inference is in the Greek and it is understandable. The fact is it can be understood, but many reject what it means for their own doctrine. Dump the false doctrine of backsliding and then the biblical teaching will be understood. It is a narrow gate and a straight path, not a broad gate and a stock market graph walk.

Because you can never answer the simple question on just what it means to be practice sin, would seem to indicate not a strong point to prove your take on that biblical doctrine!

You err in failure to see that we still have a sin nature/princinciple at work in us, that Christians can never lose relationship with God, but can and do lose fellowship, and that we are COMMANDED to confess to God in order to have fellowship restored!

You have the Gospel, but tend to see it through the lense of "saved by faith/kept by works!" Which paul in Gal totally refuted!{/quote]

The last two questions you gave I have already answered the only way they can be answered as there is not enough information in the OP know. I refer you to post #4

Think that we need to realise that Justification is an act of God done immediatly at point of salvation, but that saucntification starts than, and will continue intil glorification by Christ Himself at Second Coming..

You tend to see them as being same process, happening same time!

 

[freeatlast]

I think you are forgetting that David committed adultery, then schemed to bring Urriah home so he would sleep with his wife and cover it up. Then sent Urriah back to the battlefield to be killed, then took bathsheba into his own house and continued in unrepentance untill confronted. I was not a "practice" of one kind of sin, but a pattern of different sins that must have at the very least taken several weeks, probalby longer, to play out.

No I am not forgetting anything. I am saying what scripture teaches and no one who is born again practices sin. It was not the practice of David to practice sin. His daily life was to practice righteousness. You keep referring to a time frame. This has nothing to with a time frame. It is about character not a time frame. David's character and practice was to practice righteousness.