relapse?

[freeatlast]

So it sounds like you are saying the fictional person in the OP might have been saved for those 20 years, but probably not, but we can't know for sure?

That would be as far as I would go with making any determination. There is not enough information given to make any clear statement and I haven't. We would need to know what was the rest of their life like during that time. Were they seeking release of this new sin and broken over it and living the rest of their life for the Lord or were they like the proverbial hog walling in the mire? And finally even then we could not pronounce them saved as there would always be doubt and should be. What we can know is that no person who is born of God practices sin. It is not their daily lifestyle to be sinning as a way of life.

 

[freeatlast]

If the term practice cannot be understood then it is a waste of good paper and John was just spinning his wheels. The inference is in the Greek and it is understandable. The fact is it can be understood, but many reject what it means for their own doctrine. Dump the false doctrine of backsliding and then the biblical teaching will be understood. It is a narrow gate and a straight path, not a broad gate and a stock market graph walk.



Think that we need to realise that Justification is an act of God done immediatly at point of salvation, but that saucntification starts than, and will continue intil glorification by Christ Himself at Second Coming..

You tend to see them as being same process, happening same time!

I don't think anything. I know
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit (practice) sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot (practice) sin, because he is born of God.

This has nothing to with sanctification. Sanctification has to do with us. This has to do with the new birth. This has to do with salvation and the indwelling Spirit who abides and keep the person from ever again practicing sin. This is an absolute guarantee from the moment of salvation. The truth is that many who claim or think they have been saved have not. Praise God that at some point later some do get saved, but we can know IF we will believe that no one who is born of God practices sin, ever in their life.
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit (practice) sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot (practice) sin, because he is born of God.

 

[JesusFan]

I don't think anything. I know
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit (practice) sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot (practice) sin, because he is born of God.

This has nothing to with sanctification. Sanctification has to do with us. This has to do with the new birth. This has to do with salvation and the indwelling Spirit who abides and keep the person from ever again practicing sin. This is an absolute guarantee from the moment of salvation. The truth is that many who claim or think they have been saved have not. Praise God that at some point later some do get saved, but we can know IF we will believe that no one who is born of God practices sin, ever in their life.
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit (practice) sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot (practice) sin, because he is born of God.

Still have to answer this!

What saves us, the Cross/Grace of God, or our behaviour?
What keeps us saved, God or ourselves?
Can a Christian still sin while in this fleshly body, and how much/how long drifts to "practicing sin?"
saved/unsaved BOTH still sin, how would you have confidence really saved if unable to naswer what to practice sin really means?

 

[HAMel]

I don't think anything. I know
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit (practice) sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot (practice) sin, because he is born of God.

...wow.

 

[JesusFan]

I don't think anything. I know
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit (practice) sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot (practice) sin, because he is born of God.

...wow.

IF Fal really holds to those kinds of views, think would be better off becoming a Weslyn , as they official hold to doctrine of sinless perfection!

 

[jbh28]

I don't think anything. I know
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit (practice) sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot (practice) sin, because he is born of God.

...wow.

What are you wowing here? I curious because I saw a direct quote of Scripture. Are you in disagreement?

 

[HAMel]

Included in each and every prayer I offer up whether personally or in Church, I always ask the Lord to forgive me of my sins or ask for forgiveness of sins collectively. To me, only the self-righteous are totally and completely without sin..., exception being FAL.

Think of the man in the temple thanking God that he is not like other men..., while the other man smote his breast. Who went away with the blessing?

...wow.

 

[nodak]

I posted this after reading on Pastor Wade Burleson's blog.

He speaks of being able to lead an addict or alcoholic to Christ. They need not fear a relapse means they lost their salvation.

I also get confused. Some of the ones most strongly Lordship Salvation also strongly teach against sinless perfection.

So I wondered what ya'll would say about the subject.

 

[freeatlast]

Still have to answer this!

What saves us, the Cross/Grace of God, or our behaviour?
What keeps us saved, God or ourselves?
Can a Christian still sin while in this fleshly body, and how much/how long drifts to "practicing sin?"
saved/unsaved BOTH still sin, how would you have confidence really saved if unable to naswer what to practice sin really means?

I have answered you many times and you ask the same question again and again. It has nothing to do with time. Use the search feature if you have forgotten what was said or did not read the answer.

 

[convicted1]

I don't think anything. I know
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit (practice) sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot (practice) sin, because he is born of God.

...wow.

Well Brother look at it like this. When we are saved, what gets saved? Is it our flesh or our soul? It's our soul, of course. It has been made white as snow, and is unable to sin any more. Now the flesh has not been delivered from the clutches of sin, and it wars against the born again soul. When the flesh rears up and begins to do its desires, the soul, through the working of the Spirit brings it back under subjection. That is why a sinner can not continue in sin(practicing sin).

 

[Robert Snow]

David never had the Spirit dwelling within him. To compare OT to NT is "iffy", considering the Spirit never permanently indewlt people until Jesus breathed the Spirit into them in John 20:22.

Psa 51:11 Cast me not away from your presence, and take not your Holy Spirit from me.

 

[convicted1]

Psa 51:11 Cast me not away from your presence, and take not your Holy Spirit from me.

But this does not state that the Spirit was indwelling him all the time. The Spirit moved upon certain individuals (David included) and they did what God had intended for them to do. But there was no permanent indwelling in anyone untill Jesus was resurrected, ascended back to the Father, and then the Comforter came down.

 

[Robert Snow]

But this does not state that the Spirit was indwelling him all the time. The Spirit moved upon certain individuals (David included) and they did what God had intended for them to do. But there was no permanent indwelling in anyone untill Jesus was resurrected, ascended back to the Father, and then the Comforter came down.

So, if at any time after this the Holy Spirit departed from David, it would mean that this scripture means what? Do you think King David had the Holy Spirit before this season of sin, then lost it? If so, why would he pray to not take the Spirit away from him? Why not pray to bring the Holy Spirit back to him?

 

[JesusFan]

What are you wowing here? I curious because I saw a direct quote of Scripture. Are you in disagreement?

Not witht he scripture , but witht he interpretation of this passage by fal!

 

[convicted1]

So, if at any time after this the Holy Spirit departed from David, it would mean that this scripture means what? Do you think King David had the Holy Spirit before this season of sin, then lost it? If so, why would he pray to not take the Spirit away from him? Why not pray to bring the Holy Spirit back to him?

John 16:7-13

7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;

10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;

11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

The bolded big words are not for yelling, but emphasis.


John 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

Go back and read what the Disciples did prior to receiving the Holy Ghost. They did many miracles before this even in John 20:22.

 

[Mexdeaf]

12Strings, unless one is caught up in the addiction of kinky s-e-x the looking twice at a pretty young heifer in her mini-skirt and bubbling over the top of her blouse, is hardly the same as being addicted to alcohol. But then again, it certainly can be.

Yes, it's all sinful and contrary to the way our Lord desires we live as Christians. However, an addiction can and will continue to plague any Christian so long as they live depending on the severity of the addiction. A chemical addiction must rank at the top of the list. As I'm sure you are aware of, there are Preachers and Pastors out there fighting an addiction battle daily.

When we get right down to brass tacks, all of us who post on this forum are addicted to something..., if we will only admit it. Just admit it to yourself.

Yes, I've an addiction but find that with the help of the Lord I can steer clear of the enticement. At my age (66) I have become so much more wiser and on more solid ground that perhaps one who is 25 and battling a curse. I can understand now more so than in my younger days as the Lord has opened my eyes to better understanding.

If one says they are without sin they are a liar and the truth is not in them. Could "sin" then, all "sin" be ranked as an addiction of one sort or another? I think so.

It is a fact that some folks are more prone to have "addictive personalities" than others.

 

[JesusFan]

John 16:7-13

7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;

10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;

11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

The bolded big words are not for yelling, but emphasis.


John 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

Go back and read what the Disciples did prior to receiving the Holy Ghost. They did many miracles before this even in John 20:22.

The Holy never sealed the OT believer, was not a "permanent" possession of him, as indeed the Messiah had not come yet, and the HS not come in the NT sense of term BUT...

The HS did not come upon "official" representatives for God in Ot, such as prophets/priests/kings, and as such, David would have been the annoited of the Lord, and really would have had some measure of the HS!

 

[JesusFan]

I don't think anything. I know
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit (practice) sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot (practice) sin, because he is born of God.

This has nothing to with sanctification. Sanctification has to do with us. This has to do with the new birth. This has to do with salvation and the indwelling Spirit who abides and keep the person from ever again practicing sin. This is an absolute guarantee from the moment of salvation. The truth is that many who claim or think they have been saved have not. Praise God that at some point later some do get saved, but we can know IF we will believe that no one who is born of God practices sin, ever in their life.
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit (practice) sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot (practice) sin, because he is born of God.

What would the practicing of sin be actually like?

As how would we know if a Christian was fallen into a sin state, what would make it not to practice sin?

 

[convicted1]

The Holy never sealed the OT believer, was not a "permanent" possession of him, as indeed the Messiah had not come yet, and the HS not come in the NT sense of term BUT...

The HS did not come upon "official" representatives for God in Ot, such as prophets/priests/kings, and as such, David would have been the annoited of the Lord, and really would have had some measure of the HS!

He was anointed by Samuel with a horn of oil, I'd imagine olive oil. God used this as sign to Samuel, and the rest of the Israelites, that he was to take Saul's place as king. But He wasn't given the indwelling of the Spirit, seeing that it never completely indwelt anyone until Jesus was received back to the Father. He would move upon them, but never stayed with them all the time like He does today.

 

[freeatlast]

It is a fact that some folks are more prone to have "addictive personalities" than others.

Not according to the bible. He always gives us an escape.
1Cor 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God [is] faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear [it].


So they have no excuse.